RPF1s, lug nuts, hub-centric rings

[elightbo]

I just picked up an awesome set of bronze RPF1s from Oakos for the upcoming autocross season. This is my first new set of wheels, so I just have a couple of quick questions. First, do I need different lug nuts or can I use the OEM ones? I think I'd much rather use aftermarket lug nuts since I don't want to have to deal with wheel locks anyway. Any suggestions for aftermarket lug nuts? Also, do I need hub-centric rings for with these wheels?

 

[SteveS]

The bore size of those wheels is 73mm, and the Fiesta hub is 63.4mm. So you should use the hub centric rings for easier centering (though you can just use the lug nuts to center, it's trickier). I called Oakos and they said the OEM lug nut will not work. So you'll need the narrower aftermarket ones, which usually come splined for a splined key.

 

[Shikari]

IMO hub centric rings are a waste of money and stupid. The wheels gets centered when the nut is torqued down.

As for lugs, it depends on the pitch of the OE lugs vs the Aftermarket wheels. I'm personally using these for multiple sets of wheels. https://www.rallysportdirect.com/pa...r40-16-4-piece-regular-color-12x1-50-lug-nuts

 

[elightbo]

Thanks for the reply. Are there standards for the different pitches, or do you just have to know? I'll hit up Oakos and see what pitch lug nuts I need.

The bore size of those wheels is 73mm, and the Fiesta hub is 63.4mm. So you should use the hub centric rings for easier centering (though you can just use the lug nuts to center, it's trickier). I called Oakos and they said the OEM lug nut will not work. So you'll need the narrower aftermarket ones, which usually come splined for a splined key.

 

[Shikari]

They're all the same pitch. Here's the issue with Subaru OE lugs on aftermarket wheels. I'd have to look but I believe the ford ones are Acron style rather than Subaru Ball style.

 

[kivnul]

I have had cars that lug centric wheels always felt unbalanced. putting on the hub centric ring fixed the problem. I have made certain to always go hub centric since. The rings are not expensive and tend to last quite a while. As for lugs, pretty certain you are looking for Acorn style, M12 x 1.5 Thread Size. I use these for my team dynamics wheels, OEM wheels and cheapo discount tire wheels for winter.

After seeing Oakos reply below, Ignore my recommendation for Lugs. =)

 

[OAKOS Automotive]

RPF1s actually do not have an issue with lug nut width and do not require spline lugs like many aftermarket wheels. What they do need is a lug nut with the proper seat. This would be a bulge type conical seat of 60 degrees. Most "tuner" and aftermarket lugs have this, whether they're spline or hex.
The OEM Ford lug nuts that come with your car are a bulge type seat but are the wrong degree and length. So while they will physically hold the wheel to your car, they're technically not correct, and could cause failure and/or damage to your wheels.

AN ADDED NOTE: Subaru lug nuts have the opposite problem. Their seat is so short that the hex ends up coming into contact with the wheel when the nut is tightened down.

These are my personal favorite lug nuts that we sell:
https://www.oakos.com/MCG84247.htm
We've had a set of these on our Bugeye WRX since 2003 and they still look damn near brand new to this day.



You know by now the RPF1s are a bigger hub bore than your car, because of this there is a gap between the wheel and the hub.
The general rule with hubcentric rings is: Recommended but not required.
They make makeup the difference in hub size and help center the wheel on the hub when installing, without them there is potential for added NVH due to the wheel being uncentered. Most of the time, if people aren't sure I advise them to get some simply for peace of mind. Simply one less thing to worry about when reinstalling your wheels.
See here: https://www.oakos.com/HCR-W73-6340.htm


To add, you can see more lug nut options we offer here:
https://www.oakos.com/Focus_ST_Lugs.htm




Nolan
OAKOS Automotive

 

[elightbo]

Thanks for all of the info! Lots of good stuff here, hopefully it helps someone else as well. I'll be ordering the McGard lugs soon. Any harm in using an impact to remove?

 

[SteveS]

No harm for removal, however absolutely unnecessary. They aren't hard to take off. Torque wrench for installation a necessity.

 

[elightbo]

It's just so easy to take off with my Milwaukee Torque wrench always for installation. Thanks.

No harm for removal, however absolutely unnecessary. They aren't hard to take off. Torque wrench for installation a necessity.

 

[OAKOS Automotive]

No harm for removal, however absolutely unnecessary. They aren't hard to take off. Torque wrench for installation a necessity.

Once you rely on power tools for years working in the shop, it is SO SO hard to go back

 

[Shikari]

Once you rely on power tools for years working in the shop, it is SO SO hard to go back

I can tell you my control arms are torqued down to 4 Ugga Duggas

 

[green_henry]

It's just so easy to take off with my Milwaukee Torque wrench always for installation. Thanks.

Just make sure you only use your torque wrench to tighten them; breaker bar to loosen them. Your torque wrench will thank you

 

[FJ16]

IMO hub centric rings are a waste of money and stupid.

You say hub-centric rings are a waste of money, then link $180 lug nuts... lol.
Rings are ~$15 for peace of mind - little reason not to.

 

[elightbo]

Save the torque wrenches!

Just make sure you only use your torque wrench to tighten them; breaker bar to loosen them. Your torque wrench will thank you

 

[maestromaestro]

IMO hub centric rings are a waste of money and stupid. The wheels gets centered when the nut is torqued down.

As for lugs, it depends on the pitch of the OE lugs vs the Aftermarket wheels. I'm personally using these for multiple sets of wheels. https://www.rallysportdirect.com/pa...r40-16-4-piece-regular-color-12x1-50-lug-nuts

It’s not about centering, pal. It’s about fatigue. You’d better make sure that you torque your nuts religiously and use some high-strength studs (like ARP). Otherwise, you’re liable to see your wheel pass you by. That’s a dangerous advice - to put a bore that’s 9mm bigger that the hub over it.

 

[Shikari]

You say hub-centric rings are a waste of money, then link $180 lug nuts... lol.
Rings are ~$15 for peace of mind - little reason not to.

Technically we're all wasting money by modding cars. I'd hate to count up how much I've blown over the years, lol. I once bought a Titanium Ganador Strut bar. Even softer and shitter then a normal strut tower bar.

It’s not about centering, pal. It’s about fatigue. You’d better make sure that you torque your nuts religiously and use some high-strength studs (like ARP). Otherwise, you’re liable to see your wheel pass you by. That’s a dangerous advice - to put a bore that’s 9mm bigger that the hub over it.

Lol if you really think a wheel is gonna fall off because you don't have a hub centric wheel, you need to be less paranoid. I've been racing for +10 years and I've probably owned over 40 sets of wheels (none of which were hub centric) and I've never seen a wheel "pass me by".

 

[maestromaestro]

Technically we're all wasting money by modding cars. I'd hate to count up how much I've blown over the years, lol. I once bought a Titanium Ganador Strut bar. Even softer and shitter then a normal strut tower bar.



Lol if you really think a wheel is gonna fall off because you don't have a hub centric wheel, you need to be less paranoid. I've been racing for +10 years and I've probably owned over 40 sets of wheels (none of which were hub centric) and I've never seen a wheel "pass me by".

I had a discussion on this very topic a couple of years ago. Rather than repeat it and argue that YMMV, if you’re interested - look up my posts from 2017 on the subject of “hardened lugs”. There are some telling pictures for you to look at.

I was naive then and thought that sharing metallurgical insights would convince people. That turned out to be foolhardy.

People believe what they want to believe. That’s a known psychological phenomenon, called availability heuristic. Good luck to you. I’m going to continue to be “paranoid”.

 

[Shikari]

I had a discussion on this very topic a couple of years ago. Rather than repeat it and argue that YMMV, if you’re interested - look up my posts from 2017 on the subject of “hardened lugs”. There are some telling pictures for you to look at.

I was naive then and thought that sharing metallurgical insights would convince people. That turned out to be foolhardy.

People believe what they want to believe. That’s a known psychological phenomenon, called availability heuristic. Good luck to you. I’m going to continue to be “paranoid”.

No worries man, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I won't knock you for your beliefs. The thing about the car world is everyone has an opinion of the "best way" to do something. Just remember to not talk down to someone when you don't know their background or knowledge.

 

[maestromaestro]

No worries man, everyone is entitled to their opinion and I won't knock you for your beliefs. The thing about the car world is everyone has an opinion of the "best way" to do something. Just remember to not talk down to someone when you don't know their background or knowledge.

See, that’s not a belief - it’s first-hand experience and knowledge of mechanical behavior of a cantelievered beam and metallurgical factors for the failures of high yield strength steel.

I will maintain that relying purely on torque is inviting risk when you are not using hubcentric wheels. That’s a fact, not an opinion. Can you mitigate it by doing what I said - perhaps, but you’ll not know to what extent you’ve been successful.

When you consider the cost of centering rings, that’s a no-brainer. And, to reiterate - just because it didn’t happen to you doesn’t mean that it is a low probability event. Even if it were, risk, by definition, is a product of probability of occurrence and consequences. Given the consequences of losing a wheel at high velocity, is it really worth it to save a few dollars?

But - yea, it’s all good.