Recommendations for dual use street/track tires

[EmpireGrade]

Track experience: beginner, for track days 2-3 times a year
Vehicle: stock

Priorities:
- Consistent on the track: doesn't get greasy after a few laps at Laguna Seca (not a super hot location)
- OK grip in the wet: will be driven all year in coastal California
- Less road noise: not a monster truck

Not Priorities:
- dry grip: fine to loose a few seconds per lap. consistency > speed.
- wear: only expecting to drive it 2-3k miles per year so wear and cost are less of a factor

This is a total compromise for occasional track use. Something that works ok in the wet but doesn't fall apart on the track. I don't care much about ultimate dry grip as long as I'm having fun. It looks like some of the older UHP summer tires might fit this bill, but I have no experience here.

Looking for suggestions in 16", but open to 15" or 17". Will buy wheels to fit the tires.

 

[EmpireGrade]

Michelin PSS 205/45R17?

Not 16", and expensive-ish at $200/tire on Tirerack, but might be worth it if they last. Probably needs camber bolts?

 

[Questionable]

Continental ExtremeContact Sports are available in 205/45R16. I have these on my car for street duty and they're quiet and relatively comfortable for what I want out of tires.

They're excellent rain tires for racing, and while they won't hold up like some of the Super-200TW tires in the hot and dry summer, you'll be able to put in laps all day without the tires disintegrating or completely falling on their face.

Any 200TW race-oriented tire will do okay in the rain when new, but that will fall off as the tread blocks wear down. And they will be rougher and louder than a street-oriented tire.
The Toyo Proxes R1R are available in 16s. Look at the Hankook RS-4 or maybe the new Continental ExtremeContact Force for iron-wearing 200TW tires in 15" or 17".

Sent from my H8314 using Tapatalk

 

[Cdnmr2v6]

Continental ExtremeContact Sports would be my recommendation if you can get them in a size that works for you.

 

[EmpireGrade]

you'll be able to put in laps all day without the tires disintegrating or completely falling on their face

This is exactly what I'm looking for.

 

[EmpireGrade]

Anyone take their Firestone Indy 500s to the track?
They seem to get mixed track review all the way from "wears like iron" to "super greasy"

 

[CSM]

The new Extreme Contact Force was designed exactly for what you are looking for. 200TW streetable track tire designed for consistent performance lap to lap. I'd get that personally.

 

[ronmcdon]

i use the dunlop z3's and they are an all around solid 200tw tire being pretty good price, get pretty good wear are maybe a second or two behind falken rt660s and advan a052s. falken 615s and hankook rs4s are comparable and can't go wrong with them either.

quite honestly I doubt even the 660s or a052s will overheat at laguna seca. was there in summer this year and temps didn't go above 70f for single sessions. it is pretty much THE track to go to in CA during hotter summer months.

for the record my z3s didn't overheat doing back to back 20-25 min sessions at streets of willow springs at temps around 105f. my engine overheated first and was most likely due to damaged turbocharger or oem downpipe (diagnosed at fswerks). would worry more about getting better brake fluid and pads.

The conti extreme contact sports look interesting but they are super expensive last I checked. Maybe good for chasing very competitve lap times but would imagine they are a waste if you start hpde as a beginner. firehawk 500s are fine for a street tire but not a huge fan of how the steering feedback they give is more vague and not my choice for hpde. have them on my mother's 16 civic and they are totally fine as fun street tire.

oh and if you are a beginner highly recommend driving group 'hooked on driving' join the novice group for more in depth feedback as the driving instructors sit in your car and give you feedback while you drive.

speed district also pretty good for max lap time and free transponder and photos.

have mixed feelings about speed ventures as I think they sometimes try to cram too many events and you might only get 4 runs. The value with speedventures is if you do 2 run groups as they may give you discount for doing more than 1 run group.

finally would recommend during cooler months, doing tracks like buttonwillow, willow springs, chuckwalla, thunderhill during cooler months when you can actually enjoy them and maybe go to laguna seca and sonoma (love that track probably my favorite) during the hotter months as they don't seem to get too hot during the summer.

glad you are hitting the track as imo it's at hdpe and autoX is where the car really shines as being fun.

 

[EmpireGrade]

i use the dunlop z3's and they are an all around solid 200tw tire being pretty good price, get pretty good wear are maybe a second or two behind falken rt660s and advan a052s. falken 615s and hankook rs4s are comparable and can't go wrong with them either.

quite honestly I doubt even the 660s or a052s will overheat at laguna seca. was there in summer this year and temps didn't go above 70f for single sessions. it is pretty much THE track to go to in CA during hotter summer months.

for the record my z3s didn't overheat doing back to back 20-25 min sessions at streets of willow springs at temps around 105f. my engine overheated first and was most likely due to damaged turbocharger or oem downpipe (diagnosed at fswerks). would worry more about getting better brake fluid and pads.

The conti extreme contact sports look interesting but they are super expensive last I checked. Maybe good for chasing very competitve lap times but would imagine they are a waste if you start hpde as a beginner. firehawk 500s are fine for a street tire but not a huge fan of how the steering feedback they give is more vague and not my choice for hpde. have them on my mother's 16 civic and they are totally fine as fun street tire.

oh and if you are a beginner highly recommend driving group 'hooked on driving' join the novice group for more in depth feedback as the driving instructors sit in your car and give you feedback while you drive.

speed district also pretty good for max lap time and free transponder and photos.

have mixed feelings about speed ventures as I think they sometimes try to cram too many events and you might only get 4 runs. The value with speedventures is if you do 2 run groups as they may give you discount for doing more than 1 run group.

finally would recommend during cooler months, doing tracks like buttonwillow, willow springs, chuckwalla, thunderhill during cooler months when you can actually enjoy them and maybe go to laguna seca and sonoma (love that track probably my favorite) during the hotter months as they don't seem to get too hot during the summer.

glad you are hitting the track as imo it's at hdpe and autoX is where the car really shines as being fun.

Laguna Seca is only an hour from my house, so that's the easiest, even if it's more expensive than some of the others. Will check out Hooked on Driving.

Have you run any events with Northern California Racing Club? They're another organizer that seems to run a lot of days at Laguna Seca.

 

[EmpireGrade]

I think the Continental ECS sound like a good compromise tire for year-round street and occasional track use in a mild climate (currently $35 less than Dunlop z3s on tirerack). I'll move up to 200tw tires if I make it out of the slow group

Anyone have thoughts on Conti ECS 205/45R16 on 16x7 vs 16x8 wheels?

 

[ronmcdon]

wow if the contis are now that cheap Id say go for it and try them out for sure.
if you do go 16x8s, the z3s have a 225/45/16 size. thats what I use.
not heard of northern ca racing club. will check them out for sure. so far enjoying the northern CA tracks a lot and worth the drive from southern CA.

if you are located an hour from Salinas, that makes you close to a lot of desirable tracks like sonoma, buttonwillow and a bit further out like thunderhill, maybe willow springs within 5 hrs.

also want to add with Laguna Seca be careful of future exhaust mods.
got my first violation earlier this month on a stock 18 v8 camaro that went over 90db at the end of my final run group.
thankfully got it at the end of the day and it was a nice souvenir of sorts.

 

[sonicmn]

Anyone take their Firestone Indy 500s to the track?
They seem to get mixed track review all the way from "wears like iron" to "super greasy"

I have run the Firehawk Indy 500s on a small track 3 times now. prior I had the Michelin Pilot Sport AS3 tires that came on the car, so they are an improvement from that. They are not perfect, but at the time were inexpensive in the factory size ($95/tire) and I was looking for a nice wearing street tire I could track.

My buddy ran them on a BMW 330i ZHP and recently went to RT660s from Indy 500s and picked up a couple seconds a lap... so they are not fast, but hold up well.

They didn't seem to get gummy but it was only 60F ambient so that helps with track temps. The shoulders are mostly gone from mine now from running a bit too low of tire pressure and a realllyyy abrasive track surface. I was seeing about 10psi cold to hot tire pressure increase at these temps so they were warming up plenty. They do not ball up and get sticky like true track tires do, and slightly chunk out the corners of the tread blocks (probably track surface more than anything) and they are 3 years old now so at the end of life.

I will run them once more in the spring and then swap to something like a Falken 615K+ next time as I want to try out something actually made for the track. and now that the Indy 500s have gone up in price its less of a good deal than it used to be.

I would rate them as a good summer street tire that can do the track just fine, but they are not made for the track.

 

[kevinatfms]

17x8 Rota Titans
215/40R17 Azenis RT615k+
or
16x8 Dekagrams
215/45R16 Nankang NS2R
or
15x8 KE Motorsports PRO
225/45R15 Hankook RS4's

 

[M-Sport fan]

wow if the contis are now that cheap Id say go for it and try them out for sure.

You are confusing the 340 tread wear, UHP street, 'Sport' with the 200 tread wear, track/autocross semi-slick, developed with Hoosier's tech teams, 'Force'.

EmpireGrade is referring to the former, street tire above.

 

[M-Sport fan]

also want to add with Laguna Seca be careful of future exhaust mods.
got my first violation earlier this month on a stock 18 v8 camaro that went over 90db at the end of my final run group.
thankfully got it at the end of the day and it was a nice souvenir of sorts.

Was that with the 'LOUD' variable exhaust bypass flaps open, or closed (or does the ZL1 1LE not have that feature like the top y bodies do??)?

 

[EmpireGrade]

You are confusing the 340 tread wear, UHP street, 'Sport' with the 200 tread wear, track/autocross semi-slick, developed with Hoosier's tech teams, 'Force'.

EmpireGrade is referring to the former, street tire above.

Yep, looking for a street tire that can take a few laps and not fall apart, rather than a track tire that I can get away with on the street.

One tire to rule them all, but not particularly good at anything, or fast

 

[CSM]

17x8 Rota Titans
215/40R17 Azenis RT615k+
or
16x8 Dekagrams
215/45R16 Nankang NS2R
or
15x8 KE Motorsports PRO
225/45R15 Hankook RS4's

Forgot about RS4s. Local folks swear by those for consistency lap after lap

 

[kevinatfms]

Forgot about RS4s. Local folks swear by those for consistency lap after lap

Have them on my 15's and while they arent the stickiest or fastest while on track they do wear like iron, are great in the rain and the price is very reasonable.

 

[ronmcdon]

Was that with the 'LOUD' variable exhaust bypass flaps open, or closed (or does the ZL1 1LE not have that feature like the top y bodies do??)?

im not entirely sure other than with the exhaust there is a touring mode (which I used) or a sport mode that is noticeably louder. In WOT it sounds like a thundering machine gun. other cars like the mustang gt350 and porsche gt4 have also blown sound with stock exhaust.

at Laguna Seca one will often see cars drive slow from turn 5 to 6 and veer their cars away from the sound monitoring structure. I did this most of the day and did not get flagged for sound violation. At the end of the day, was just curious what I could get away with, as it sucks to drive slow all of a sudden on a fun road course just to avoid being black flagged.

Note on my fiesta with st200 intake, stock downpipe, thermal catback (not sure if resonated), never had sound violations. Now a tad more nervous as I switched out the DP to a COBB w/ GESI cat (stock downpipe damaged), car is noticeably louder and there's more drone although not intolerably so. I do think I will be fine.

For fiesta owners thinking of doing catless DP and catback w/out muffler just be cautious of running Laguna Seca with their sound requirements especially if the limit is 90db. At some events its at 100db.

 

[ronmcdon]

Yep, looking for a street tire that can take a few laps and not fall apart, rather than a track tire that I can get away with on the street.

One tire to rule them all, but not particularly good at anything, or fast

imo would just go with a 200tw tire and learn to drive that well. I use the Z3's because they are well rounded. same deal with the rs4s and azenis 615s. I do prefer higher temps at around 40 psi front, 41-42 rear. Had trouble with rollover when I ran 35psi hot and tire got worn out faster. Would be cautious of playing with tire pressures to prolong tread life.

At Laguna Seca you want every handling advantage you can get and 200tw along with good brakes that don't overheat will probably make the biggest difference.

A stock powered Fiesta pretty much gets slaughtered out at Laguna as it really favors cars with high hp. I did 1.52.something and caught up with cars through cornering and braking. Caught up with a lot of higher hp cars with less experienced drivers though WOT through turn 1 and into turn 2 (lot of drivers get scared and brake too early).

think the fiesta can shine more at Sonoma, Buttonwillow and Streets of Willow as my guess is those are more technical tracks. the fiesta kicks ass at AutoX and it has gotten me more interested in that now.