Reasons the ecu will close the throttle automatically

[razorlab]

I'd work on the timing curve next since it has that drop 5400-5800rpm, but looks like overall better every time. Are you up for running these through Vdyno to at least see what progress is being made?

RAAMaudio: Torque to Load / Load to Torque

 

[Sourskittle]

Razor send me the "required param" to log list. I'll try to get yall one. I just took some really great logs intead of eating lunch. So i don't forget, they were taken at 83 degrees. Its a rare warm day here without the humidity so 83 feels amazing instead of really crappy. I had some knock retards this time, but I did bump up the boost map SLIGHTLY SLIGHTLY and added 1.50 degrees of global timing above 1.85% load. Between all that, i expected to see a bit of retard, just wanted to see where and at what pressure. The retard did not exceed 1.00 on one cylinder ( but I'm only watch 3 currently ). I have another slot built into the tune without the 1.50 degrees of added timing, so its just a switch away.

That whole in the timing from the pic above is a bit of mystery to me around that 5500rpm area. I did notice it. It maybe a hole/over-sight in the timing map? Or something else I'm missing, but its not coming from "ign. Timing correction" on that log.

The logs that I'll post tonight will be multi-gear pulls. Different gears, and some even have 5th gear in them. Should show a lot of short comings with the stock intercooler and maybe the radiator.

 

[razorlab]

Razor send me the "required param" to log list. I'll try to get yall one.

What I like to log for a overall picture with the AP, while still retaining good logging speed. Items in bold are required for vdyno to work correctly. 3rd gear pull WOT from 2k to whatever high RPM you want.

Accel. Pedal Pos (%)
Actual AFR
Boost Pressure
Charge Air Temp
Engine RPM
ETC Angle Actual
FRP Actual
Ign Corr. Cyl1
Ign Corr. Cyl4
Ign Timing Base
Ign Timing Ceil
Ign Timing Cyl1
Knock Count Cyl1
Knock Count Cyl4
Load Actual
STFT
Spark Source
WGDC Actual
WGDC Base

That whole in the timing from the pic above is a bit of mystery to me around that 5500rpm area. I did notice it. It maybe a hole/over-sight in the timing map? Or something else I'm missing, but its not coming from "ign. Timing correction" on that log.

To get a good picture of what the ECU is doing timing wise, log: Spark Source, Ign Timing Base, Ign Timing Ceil, Ign Timing Cyl1, Ign Corr. Cyl1

This will tell you what set of ignition timing tables the ECU is using, what the timing ceiling is, what your base timing is before corrections and the dynamic correction being applied

Here is a good example of that: http://datazap.me/u/razorlab/streete40tuninglowmid?log=0&data=6-7-8-9-10-13&solo=7&zoom=85-202

 

[Sourskittle]

I've just been so focused in boost tuning, I have almost never logged for specific things like fuel and timing. I watch those things, but... Its been all about boost mostly.

What's going to be interesting is how much boost it can handle with how much timing on E50.

 

[Sourskittle]

I'm running 26psi peak and 22psi when I shift on 93oct with 10.5/1 compression with reasonable timing. That is mind blowing.

 

[razorlab]

I've just been so focused in boost tuning, I have almost never logged for specific things like fuel and timing. I watch those things, but... Its been all about boost mostly.

Well let me know how I can help.

What's going to be interesting is how much boost it can handle with how much timing on E50.

You are going to hit some diminishing returns soon (if not already) with boost, I predict. That's why I am saying to check your pulls with vdyno to see if adding boost is even doing anything. The back pressure must be nuts on that thing right now with the stock turbine. Ethanol will allow you to fill in the timing where the boost lets off.

 

[razorlab]

I'm running 26psi peak and 22psi when I shift on 93oct with 10.5/1 compression with reasonable timing. That is mind blowing.

It's not 10.5:1. It's 10.0:1. The Ford site is incorrect, ironically.

High-output 1.6-liter GTDI EcoBoost I-4
Bridgend, U.K.
Aluminum block and head
DOHC, four valves per cylinder
3.11 x 3.20 in./79.0 x 81.4 mm
97.4 cu. in./1,596 cc
10.0:1

 

[FORZDA 2]

I'm running 26psi peak and 22psi when I shift on 93oct with 10.5/1 compression with reasonable timing. That is mind blowing.

Are you running the stock turbo? Any exhaust/downpipe mods. Sorry I didn't search back through the trail for the info and you don't have a sig that includes the mod details.

Edit: The reason I ask is "boost" pressure is actually increased by intake and exhaust flow restrictions. I'm running stock turbo with uncatted DP and mountune intake box. I can easily hold 40psi+ TIP (~26psi boost) until ~4500 rpms and the turbo runs out of breath and manifold pressure tapers off, even with WGDC near 90%. The Exh flow (32lb/min+) and MAF (21lbmin+) are holding good, but the TIP drops down to ~28psi by 6800rpms.

Oh, and I keep the throttle maxed out at 82%

 

[Sourskittle]

Even 10/1 compression...

I honestly have to say, I truely believe boost is adding more than the timing did/does. Its dang close either way ( with the throttle shut, lol ).

The turbo builder told me a zillion times the compressor wheel is every bit of a 300hp wheel, but of course it has some things against it ( back pressure, compressor housing size ).

 

[RAAMaudio]

Once we get past the basic setup I will start working on the Vdyno part of it, right now is just getting everything running properly, fixing a few issues, second session and much better already, throttle is not shutting at all but only at 19PS1 at the moment.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Soon the real potential will be shown as Matt fine tunes the Cyborg turbo on my car

 

[razorlab]

Even 10/1 compression...

Some of that is because of the DI, but yea it's still a pretty high compression turbo motor, agreed. Perfect for Ethanol. I tuned a couple higher compression 4G63T and 4B11T's built specifically for E85 and they turned out fantastic.

I honestly have to say, I truely believe boost is adding more than the timing did/does. Its dang close either way ( with the throttle shut, lol ).

The turbo builder told me a zillion times the compressor wheel is every bit of a 300hp wheel, but of course it has some things against it ( back pressure, compressor housing size ).

My comments on the boost and backpressure I would state for any turbo when somebody is getting close to or at the edge of the compressor map, so please don't think I'm just singling out the turbo you are using.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I am having the 91 Octane tune done now and will have it nearly maxed out with just a little safety built in, meaning when at the end of what it can flow it will not be pushed more to make a boost number.

Then it will be done with E30 and taken to whatever it can go to but with a little safety in it as well, it will be interesting to see what the stock fuel system can do with this turbo and taken to the same level, just under the absolute max it can do.

Once done I will get dyno pulls on at least the E30 but might as well on the 91 as working out the Time Trial class I will be in, TTC or B.

I am pretty close to maxed out in C if I run street tires I can make it, if I want to run the RA1 I will be in TTB and then may as well run A6 tires and add a few more mods and WHP... depending on what this turbo can deliver, if not quite enough I might have to switch to the EFR but I hope it will do what I need.

 

[Sourskittle]

Nahhh. I think we're over that Razor.
Even before the first turbo was built or inspected, we knew pressure ratio was not going to be perfect, it never is with a turbo like this. It was the same way on my srt4. On the srt4, I threw 100shot of nitrous ON TOP of the already bad pressure ratio for YEARS, so I won't lose sleep over it, but nitrous was a C16 only affair. e85 wasn't used as easily or broadly as it is now.

 

[Sourskittle]

I peaked at the datalog using 5th gear. 138 degree charge temps

 

[iso100]

I peaked at the datalog using 5th gear. 138 degree charge temps

I would expect that's your diminishing returns. 25psi through tiny turbo = lots of heat. Probably better off with less boost (but more than stock) up top with more timing advance.

 

[Sourskittle]

9 logs posted
http://www.datazap.me/u/Sourskittle

 

[Sourskittle]

That's where an intercooler will come in. Even with cobb's stg3 tune on the stock turbo I could see 130-134* charge temps here in Florida. But yea... Running 23psi where the stock turbo was at 13-14psi is a big jump. Only time, tuning, and trial will tell. Glad Rick and I not the only ones in this and more

 

[razorlab]

9 logs posted
http://www.datazap.me/u/Sourskittle

Thanks for posting those.

4* ignition timing at 6,000 rpm @ 22.7 psi? EGT must be through the F'in roooooffff.....

http://www.datazap.me/u/sourskittle...ttle?log=0&data=2-5-10&solo=2-10&zoom=136-274

Yea time to work on that timing curve, it looks more like mountain peaks right now. You really should make it more linear and advance more up top. I take it you are still using the OTS Stg3 timing tables?

Let me know if you need any help.

 

[Sourskittle]

I am using the stock cobb OtS stg3 93 timing table + 1 degree at the most bottom right 4 blocks in the mbt tables.

If you look at some of the older logs ( of the 9 ) it was seeing 11degrees timing. But after hot lapping 120mph logs back to back to back at 83degree with the charge temps, I'm not supprised it backed down so far.

Is there a way, temp to back down the boost when the temps go from 58degrees outside on my way to work upto 83 degrees at lunch? Lol.

Also. I ran it with 1.50+ global timing on the last 4-5 logs during lunch.