Rear Grip Improvements?

[johnny5]

Has anyone found a way to make any significant improvement in rear lateral grip on these cars?

 

[jeffreylyon]

*Rear* grip? That's a new one. You can use rear camber plates to increase negative camber and there are front anti-sway bars available.

 

[johnny5]

*Rear* grip? That's a new one. You can use rear camber plates to increase negative camber and there are front anti-sway bars available.

Yup. Don't think many people are having that issue.

Right now the front has a good amount of grip, but the rear keeps stepping out causing the traction control to intervene.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Yup. Don't think many people are having that issue.

Right now the front has a good amount of grip, but the rear keeps stepping out causing the traction control to intervene.

Under what conditions? If you're finding that your FiST is balanced towards oversteer then something is wrong. These guys are well balanced for a FWD car but will understeer when you start to bully them, as will most street cars. Most of us are chasing more rotation with more rear anti-sway and foot-induced weight transfer.

 

[D1JL]

Just turn the EST completely off.
Then you can see the light on all the time to prove that it works and the light itself will not effect the car in any way.

 

[johnny5]

Car over steers on ramps, etc. Currently the car has the pierce race package, but it otherwise stock right now.

D1JL. You can feel the car starting to over steer before the TC begins to intervene

 

[D1JL]

Personally I like the rear to kick out.
I have learned to control it and I can make it do what I want, when I want.
I have even gone to a more extreme setup.
Not only do I have stiffer rear shocks and springs, I have an Eibach rear anti-sway bar.
Additionally I have a custom built "Pierce style" twist beam stiffener bar that is much stronger than the race version.

@ johnny5, I would suggest you remove the Pierce rear bar and also reduce the air pressure in the rear (2-3 lbs) to see if that helps you get to where you want it.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Car over steers on ramps, etc. Currently the car has the pierce race package, but it otherwise stock right now.

D1JL. You can feel the car starting to over steer before the TC begins to intervene

If your car is truly balanced towards oversteer then something is wrong. Try taking off the rear torsion bar stiffener - that will increase rear traction.

How do you correct the oversteer?

 

[Plainrt]

If your car is truly balanced towards oversteer then something is wrong. Try taking off the rear torsion bar stiffener - that will increase rear traction.

How do you correct the oversteer?

My car at end of season autocross was horrible in sub 50 deg weather. It was crazy loose in rear and it drove me nuts. Worn out re71r’s caused this along with low temps. Op where is your location and what tires are you on? If on higher performance summers in cold that could be suspect. Also it could be your driving style. If I get off throttle when taking on ramps the rear will drift out with good tires. Key is to keep on the throttle if don’t want rear to rotate or try one more gear up and not wind out so much.

 

[johnny5]

Personally I like the rear to kick out.
I have learned to control it and I can make it do what I want, when I want.
I have even gone to a more extreme setup.
Not only do I have stiffer rear shocks and springs, I have an Eibach rear anti-sway bar.
Additionally I have a custom built "Pierce style" twist beam stiffener bar that is much stronger than the race version.

@ johnny5, I would suggest you remove the Pierce rear bar and also reduce the air pressure in the rear (2-3 lbs) to see if that helps you get to where you want it.

That is the next step. Have a set of coilovers with 8kg/mm front springs and 6kg/mm rear springs that will be going on soon. If the oversteer is still present it will be coming off.

If your car is truly balanced towards oversteer then something is wrong. Try taking off the rear torsion bar stiffener - that will increase rear traction.

How do you correct the oversteer?

With all of the nannies on it corrects itself, but you can balance it by constantly correcting by unwinding the steering wheel.

My car at end of season autocross was horrible in sub 50 deg weather. It was crazy loose in rear and it drove me nuts. Worn out re71r’s caused this along with low temps. Op where is your location and what tires are you on? If on higher performance summers in cold that could be suspect. Also it could be your driving style. If I get off throttle when taking on ramps the rear will drift out with good tires. Key is to keep on the throttle if don’t want rear to rotate or try one more gear up and not wind out so much.

Temp is 50-53F so not ideal, but also not on the summer tires either. The oversteer is primarily present during long sweeping turns at a constant speed. Anything over 65-70MPH and the rear begins to slide, stickier tires should shift the speed.

 

[jeffreylyon]

That is the next step. Have a set of coilovers with 8kg/mm front springs and 6kg/mm rear springs that will be going on soon. If the oversteer is still present it will be coming off.

Temp is 50-53F so not ideal, but also not on the summer tires either. The oversteer is primarily present during long sweeping turns at a constant speed. Anything over 65-70MPH and the rear begins to slide, stickier tires should shift the speed.

Something goofy is going on. Take the rear torsion bar stiffener off. Check tire pressures. If you've got a oversteer balance then fix it before you start adding more variables. Learn how to transfer the balance to the rear to reduce oversteer rather than just correcting into it. Oversteer at steady state 75 MPH on public roads is going to end in tears.

 

[camopaint0707]

yeah, your car is broken if it's doing that.

 

[green_henry]

Did you remove or add any significant weight from/to the rear end?

 

[GotVic]

If your car is truly balanced towards oversteer then something is wrong.

I'm with Jeffrey on this one.

These cars are known to rotate, but that's one of the things that makes these little cars so special. They don't handle like a typical FWD car - they're incredibly neutral. Very, very easy to control at the limit.

The only time I've every had oversteer so severe that I had to countersteer was when I lifted the throttle too abruptly while too close to the limit.

I'm not good enough (yet) to effectively trail brake these cars, but damn they're fun to drive.

 

[Pablo Pistoffo]

I'd have to agree with everyone else here- something is really wrong if the car is behaving like that. Did you notice this behavior before you put any mods on?

I'll admit I did spin my car at the first event that I had my Pierce torsion beam on for, but I was really going for it, and not driving on the street.
Is the front bar hooked up?

 

[johnny5]

The 6pt is hooked up.

For clarification under normal driving it is perfectly fine. I simply find that the limiting factor with the current set up is rear lateral grip, hence this thread.

 

[jeffreylyon]

The 6pt is hooked up.

For clarification under normal driving it is perfectly fine. I simply find that the limiting factor with the current set up is rear lateral grip, hence this thread.

We get that. Nothing short of a drift car is setup to oversteer at the limit. If your car is truly balanced towards oversteer then it's not safe to drive near the limit; if you're oversteering and something happens in front of you that requires you to slow down your car will loop as soon as you throttle lift.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Is the front bar hooked up?

The 6pt is hooked up.

[MENTION=9956]Pablo Pistoffo[/MENTION] means is your front anti-sway hooked up, because completely losing your front anti-sway might explain what you're describing.

 

[Erick_V]

Agree with all the above. I have the rear torsion brace and a 2pt front brace. At my last autocross I encountered vicious oversteer only because 50 ambient, cold 140tw tires and me going 10/10 on the first heat. No other issues after getting the tires warm. The car still feels planted at 70+ on highway exit/entrances. You either have too much pressure in the rear or too stiff in the rear. What are your alignment numbers? When I had toe out the car handled great at autocross but felt a little loose on the high speed stuff.

 

[maestromaestro]

Under what conditions? If you're finding that your FiST is balanced towards oversteer then something is wrong. These guys are well balanced for a FWD car but will understeer when you start to bully them, as will most street cars. Most of us are chasing more rotation with more rear anti-sway and foot-induced weight transfer.

This!!! 1000 times!

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