-
Sign Up! To view all forums and unlock additional cool features
Welcome to the #1 Fiesta ST Forum and Fiesta ST community dedicated to Fiesta ST owners and enthusiasts. Register for an account, it's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the Fiesta ST Forum today!
RANT: summer tires only on 2k14 FiST
- Thread starter HaveBlue83
- Start date
Yeah, how many of your cars are still on the road? Not many from what I understand. Anyway, no reason to argue that, let's stick to data instead.
1) The 2015 Fiesta ST has an option for All-Season Michelin tires, so a tire option does exist. I looked at a ST last week with the factory installed All-Season tires, and saw another one back in January. To suggest no tire option exists is false.
2) The owner's manual, along with the tire companies, all say that summer tires should not be driven below 45'F or 40'F (it varies based on the source) and the reason is the compound doesn't adhere to the road at temps below the suggested range. The rubber formulation is designed for higher temps and loads instead of cold temps. They all suggest to avoid driving in snow and this is due to the compound, tread block design, and the lack of self-clearing tread.
3) The average temps for Landenburg, PA is 36'F for December, 32'F for January, 34'F for February, and 42'F for March. That indicates that under a normal year, there are 4 months in which the average temp is below the recommended tire operating temp that is published in the ST owner's manual and against the tire manufacture's recommendation. Regardless of snow fall, the temp range indicates you should be using something other than a summer tire for that time period.
4) It isn't about driving the car hard on the street, it is about being safe and not putting yourself or others at risk. Operating a tire outside of the designed temp range is no different than operating outside the pressure range. It increases risk of a problem. Example, if at 32'F a summer tire takes 120 feet to stop from 60mph and an all-season takes 100 feet to stop and there is a kid that ran out in front of you that is 110 feet away, then you just took out the kid with summer tires. With snow or ice, the stopping distances increase greatly and a proper winter tire is your only option to safely stop or maneuver away from an obstacle. This isn't about FTD on the street, but about safety. Using a tire that isn't designed for the conditions is unsafe and puts others at risk as well. With summer tires on snow, it may take 250 feet to stop from 60 mph, 150 feet on all-seasons, and 100 feet on snow tires. The braking ability of a winter tire on snow is their most impressive asset. Way more so than acceleration. The best way to survive and accident is to avoid an accident. The proper tire adds an extra factor of safety in avoiding an accident.
5) Spending money on tires is the most important thing to spend money on since they are the only connection between the car and the road. Maximizing the interaction between the car and road is the key to the dynamics of the vehicle.
While you suggest the reply was "douchy", I think the technical reasons and data prove my points. I also happen to be a suspension engineer and have completed a number of SAE vehicle dynamic courses which focus heavily on tires. If you have actual data to counter any of my points, please bring the tech. Suggesting it is Ford's fault for operating a vehicle with improper tires for conditions when the ST manual suggests you do otherwise is just silly. Ford is 100% in the clear since they offer an all-season tire option and have published warnings in the ST manual to not operate the car with summer tires in conditions in which you are currently in.
1) The 2015 Fiesta ST has an option for All-Season Michelin tires, so a tire option does exist. I looked at a ST last week with the factory installed All-Season tires, and saw another one back in January. To suggest no tire option exists is false.
2) The owner's manual, along with the tire companies, all say that summer tires should not be driven below 45'F or 40'F (it varies based on the source) and the reason is the compound doesn't adhere to the road at temps below the suggested range. The rubber formulation is designed for higher temps and loads instead of cold temps. They all suggest to avoid driving in snow and this is due to the compound, tread block design, and the lack of self-clearing tread.
3) The average temps for Landenburg, PA is 36'F for December, 32'F for January, 34'F for February, and 42'F for March. That indicates that under a normal year, there are 4 months in which the average temp is below the recommended tire operating temp that is published in the ST owner's manual and against the tire manufacture's recommendation. Regardless of snow fall, the temp range indicates you should be using something other than a summer tire for that time period.
4) It isn't about driving the car hard on the street, it is about being safe and not putting yourself or others at risk. Operating a tire outside of the designed temp range is no different than operating outside the pressure range. It increases risk of a problem. Example, if at 32'F a summer tire takes 120 feet to stop from 60mph and an all-season takes 100 feet to stop and there is a kid that ran out in front of you that is 110 feet away, then you just took out the kid with summer tires. With snow or ice, the stopping distances increase greatly and a proper winter tire is your only option to safely stop or maneuver away from an obstacle. This isn't about FTD on the street, but about safety. Using a tire that isn't designed for the conditions is unsafe and puts others at risk as well. With summer tires on snow, it may take 250 feet to stop from 60 mph, 150 feet on all-seasons, and 100 feet on snow tires. The braking ability of a winter tire on snow is their most impressive asset. Way more so than acceleration. The best way to survive and accident is to avoid an accident. The proper tire adds an extra factor of safety in avoiding an accident.
5) Spending money on tires is the most important thing to spend money on since they are the only connection between the car and the road. Maximizing the interaction between the car and road is the key to the dynamics of the vehicle.
While you suggest the reply was "douchy", I think the technical reasons and data prove my points. I also happen to be a suspension engineer and have completed a number of SAE vehicle dynamic courses which focus heavily on tires. If you have actual data to counter any of my points, please bring the tech. Suggesting it is Ford's fault for operating a vehicle with improper tires for conditions when the ST manual suggests you do otherwise is just silly. Ford is 100% in the clear since they offer an all-season tire option and have published warnings in the ST manual to not operate the car with summer tires in conditions in which you are currently in.
Just so everyone knows, FiST + AS/3 + snow = garbage. Next season, I'm running winters. DWS might fare marginally better. I know how to drive in the snow, but the car is still slightly unpredictable. If you get snow and your car is modded, don't cheap out if you can afford it. Summers and Winters sets for me this year.
Agree the AS3 is not very good in the ice and snow but it is not rated for that as one can see. I just didn't think it would be as poor as it was.. Compared to real snow tires that I had on the car last year but needed to move them to a move important DD in our fleet so I thought i would try them in winter.. They are still THE BEST wet tire I have run and almost as good in the dry as my DZll's were but that almost cost me first place when the sun came out and it dried up.. till then I was faster in the wet .. LOL
If you drive in the snow I can only say from my personal experiance get a real set of Snow tires... and drive accordingly.. Both of my 17 inch AS/3's can be broken loose at will in second or third gear in this salty cold place i live .. still makes me smile .. lol
If you drive in the snow I can only say from my personal experiance get a real set of Snow tires... and drive accordingly.. Both of my 17 inch AS/3's can be broken loose at will in second or third gear in this salty cold place i live .. still makes me smile .. lol
weight does play into it as it increases the force per area at the contact patch. Our options are to increase weight or go with a smaller contact patch. I run the skinniest tire I can in the winter to increase the force per area of the tire and reduce the "snow shoeing" that happens with a light car on wide tires in the winter. You end up floating on top of the snow instead of digging down to the packed snow where there is traction. Ice just sucks no matter what, but a good winter tire will always do better on ice than anything else. On packed snow, an all-season can be ok. Rarely do I get to drive on packed snow, which is sad because I find it to be the most fun. Instead I get dry patches with ice or slush. Today I did get packed snow as 8" of fresh snow fell overnight and the plows can't keep up.
Looking back at my driving resume, the last time I had an "off" was in the winter of 1996 with a Probe GT running on all-season tires up front and worn Gatorback's in the rear. It was a winter car in high school, and no big shock that I put it backwards into a snow bank. From 1997-2000, I had an AWD Tempo, Mystique, Contour, and Escort with all-season tires. Starting in 2000 with my ZX3, I changed to full winter tires and have never gone back to all-seasons. With longer commutes for work and school, having the right tire for conditions is more important now than it was when I was in high school. I haven't been stuck, spun, or had an incident since 1996. Putting the right tires on the car, planning for conditions, and staying ahead of Mother Nature are the keys.
On dry pavement, my General Altimax-Arctic's make the traction control light come on in 4th. On snow and ice, the light almost never comes on. I am 100% happy with how well the ST does in the winter with proper tires. It goes just as well as our Escape Ti AWD on snow tires, with the advantage of the AWD coming in under acceleration and the extra ground clearance helping on days when a foot of snow falls.
Looking back at my driving resume, the last time I had an "off" was in the winter of 1996 with a Probe GT running on all-season tires up front and worn Gatorback's in the rear. It was a winter car in high school, and no big shock that I put it backwards into a snow bank. From 1997-2000, I had an AWD Tempo, Mystique, Contour, and Escort with all-season tires. Starting in 2000 with my ZX3, I changed to full winter tires and have never gone back to all-seasons. With longer commutes for work and school, having the right tire for conditions is more important now than it was when I was in high school. I haven't been stuck, spun, or had an incident since 1996. Putting the right tires on the car, planning for conditions, and staying ahead of Mother Nature are the keys.
On dry pavement, my General Altimax-Arctic's make the traction control light come on in 4th. On snow and ice, the light almost never comes on. I am 100% happy with how well the ST does in the winter with proper tires. It goes just as well as our Escape Ti AWD on snow tires, with the advantage of the AWD coming in under acceleration and the extra ground clearance helping on days when a foot of snow falls.
Thread Starter
#27
You literally over-engineered your reply. You need to turn off your brain sometimes man.
Point 3 is exactly why i am going with an all season tire. Its also the only point that was useful.
This car is light and narrow. That will affect how a tire is able to operate. Im not going to buy Snow tires and steelies for a car that is used in a climate that sees legit snow maybe 5 times in a winter. The snow tires will sit and rot away for 8 months out of the year. I undersrand that A/S will not be like snow tires....but they will prevent me keeping a spare set and swapping. Thats why i went a/s. Shittttttt. The point of the OP was that there are very few tire options. And the car comes with a hps regardless of climate. Weird.
Tires are on the way. Argue all we want, the rubber is shipoing lol.
Point 3 is exactly why i am going with an all season tire. Its also the only point that was useful.
This car is light and narrow. That will affect how a tire is able to operate. Im not going to buy Snow tires and steelies for a car that is used in a climate that sees legit snow maybe 5 times in a winter. The snow tires will sit and rot away for 8 months out of the year. I undersrand that A/S will not be like snow tires....but they will prevent me keeping a spare set and swapping. Thats why i went a/s. Shittttttt. The point of the OP was that there are very few tire options. And the car comes with a hps regardless of climate. Weird.
Tires are on the way. Argue all we want, the rubber is shipoing lol.
Thread Starter
#30
Everything we do is about saving money somewhere. I dont want snow tires and wheeps sitting for 9mos out of the year either. An all season tire is a compromise. Its on a daily. Its not a racecar, i do some backroads work and go to work in it. Im not being arrogant. Im sure people think i am......their opinion not mine. I did vent in here on my OP...sometimes you just gotta vent ya know? I simply stated that the tires are already ordered. If you all want to keep debating this, the thread is yours 
didn't realized ppl in the US don't have the option to order all seasons... There's a check box on the order form up here.
Absolutely no way I am turning my brain off. Picking tires, or any component of a car, takes careful examination and thought to balance the cost, performance, NVH, drivability, and reliability. Buying items without turning on your brain is horribly inefficient and risky. If you had your brain engaged when you started this thread, you would have realized before posting that your statement of "zero tire options" for the Fiesta ST were incorrect. Do a little research and thinking before jumping into posting. Without valid proof countering any of my points, I suggest they are all useful. You mention in the quoted post that "very few tires options" was the point of the post, but your title and first post suggested "zero tire options", that is simply incorrect and misleading to others. I stand by my original point that you were not prepared for the winter with the car you purchased. I knew winter was coming and my summer tires were not going to work, so I had winter tires/wheels sitting in the garage ready to go when the weather turned bad. Turn on the brain, do your research, plan ahead, and you will be fine.
Thread Starter
#34
-edit changed thread name for accuracy.
I should clarify.....i meant you dont need to go into huge paragrahs in replys. I understand what u are saying. I do. Sorry if im coming off like i am mad. Its just a Huuuuuuge reply. You did verify that indeed the 2k14 had NO tire option...so i was correct in that resprct.. Did i try to get by on summers? Yes. Have i done it before? yes. Is this winter partucularly bad? Hell yes temps are crazy low. Snow every week. But to buy SNOW TIRES. for one bad winter......that is a waste. I understand the calculated rusk and performance drop on an A/S tire. I will rum em hard.
I made an informed decision on a tire.....i have said before that the tire i purchased i had run on my 2002 SVTF until they were worn out. They were great tires.
If i lived where u lived, i would have snow tires.
I should clarify.....i meant you dont need to go into huge paragrahs in replys. I understand what u are saying. I do. Sorry if im coming off like i am mad. Its just a Huuuuuuge reply. You did verify that indeed the 2k14 had NO tire option...so i was correct in that resprct.. Did i try to get by on summers? Yes. Have i done it before? yes. Is this winter partucularly bad? Hell yes temps are crazy low. Snow every week. But to buy SNOW TIRES. for one bad winter......that is a waste. I understand the calculated rusk and performance drop on an A/S tire. I will rum em hard.
I made an informed decision on a tire.....i have said before that the tire i purchased i had run on my 2002 SVTF until they were worn out. They were great tires.
If i lived where u lived, i would have snow tires.
Besides the driver knowing how to actually drive well the next most important part on any vehicle is the tires, the more one educates themselves which is very easy to do with the internet, one can pick the best for their needs and budget.
I am totally fine with whatever others want to do as long as it is from a logical, reasonable and safe perspective and does not dramatically reduce the vehicle into something to just look "cool" no matter how much it compromises the car and then tell others that might not be as experienced in such things that it is OK to do so.
Now we know, 2015 has an AS option which may of always been the plan, start out with only sticky tires so all the testing gives the best results then when the excitement dies down add the option to the list
Can't we just move past this and spend our time on more constructive issues?
Rick
I am totally fine with whatever others want to do as long as it is from a logical, reasonable and safe perspective and does not dramatically reduce the vehicle into something to just look "cool" no matter how much it compromises the car and then tell others that might not be as experienced in such things that it is OK to do so.
Now we know, 2015 has an AS option which may of always been the plan, start out with only sticky tires so all the testing gives the best results then when the excitement dies down add the option to the list
Can't we just move past this and spend our time on more constructive issues?
Rick
Ok so I haven't read all 4 pages, but this just seems ridiculous... The Fiesta ST is a performance car. It comes with performance tires. You want non-performance-oriented tires? Buy them, or don't buy a Fiesta ST. Some people complain about the same thing on the Focus ST, or the Mustang GT with performance pack. You want a performance car, but then you want all-season tires?!
I, for one, am glad it comes with just summer tires. Like how it's manual only.
If you drive your car in the winter, then you suck it up and buy winter tires (I've done that for multiple cars now...), or you buy some all-seasons. But to me, having all-seasons year round seems dumb on a performance car.
I, for one, am glad it comes with just summer tires. Like how it's manual only.
If you drive your car in the winter, then you suck it up and buy winter tires (I've done that for multiple cars now...), or you buy some all-seasons. But to me, having all-seasons year round seems dumb on a performance car.
Similar threads
-
2017 FORD FIESTA S Out of Warranty Clutch/Transmission issue?
- Started by MnVa
- Replies: 24
-
-
Wind noise after warranty door paint work- Started by akiraproject24
- Replies: 5
-
What are odds my S280 clutch repair can get covered under warranty?
- Started by supercell
- Replies: 3
-
Refrigerant hose routing- Started by foodtruck
- Replies: 4
-
Have my 2019 in for warranty clutch repair.- Started by scooter123
- Replies: 9
-
FS 2019 Ford Fiesta ST Magnetic Gray (stock) - Still has bumper to bumper warranty - 19.5k miles - $22,400 OBO - Billings, MT
- Started by EintrachtAdler
- Replies: 2
-
-
-
