Potential Wilwood Brake Problem

[westcoaST]

Brake fluid will not eat teflon. You are not supposed to put teflon where it can get into the hydraulic fluid. I.E. not to the very end of the pipe fitting. That being said, you probably only need to tighten down on a replacement fitting to get the correct angle. I would pull the old fitting and check ?t for thread problems. Also the caliper. Then if no problems, tighten it down until you get the proper angle of the fitting.

 

[Chuckable]

Wilwood responds much better to phone calls I've found. Both the instructions and the phone tech support will tell you to use PTFE or sealant. Should be able to get either at any local parts store. Good luck!

 

[Joszer]

When I advised Wilwood that I had the Cross-drilled slotted rotors and the BP-20 pads and was driving on the street, I was asked "who talked me into that?" he followed up with those are 150mph pads, and not meant for daily street applications under any situation.

Hey Antarctica,

I have had my kit for about 12,000 miles and I have experimented with different rotors and 5 different types of pads with this kit. First of all, as much as I hate to say it, Wilwood knows JACK SHIT about their pads. I almost killed myself on Turn 1 at Thunderhill going ~110 mph because my BP-20 pads failed on me before the turn. I called their support line and spoke with Ryan to ask them what pad might suit me better because their BP-20's failed on me at the track. Instead of receiving solid constructive advice, I was told that:
1. I did not bed in the pads accordingly (I did)
2. I was braking too aggressively
3. His friend has a Turbo'ed supra that gets tracked with these same pads and they hold up for him
4. I am silly for considering a more aggressive pad because of my "novice" experience.

Despite me showing him video and photographic evidence of the pad's inability to hold up at the track, he refused to believe that the BP-20's were not a track pad.

Take it from me, since I have used the BP-10's, BP-20's, BP-30's, Polymatrix B, and HAWK DTC-60 pads on this kit. The BP-20's are PERFECTLY suited for street use and ONLY street use with AutoX included. I would not recommend the BP-10's as their bite incredibly sucks and does not increase as more pressure is added on the pedal and for an extra $10 you can get the 20's. All the other pads listed are strictly track pads.

I tracked with the Drilled and Slotted rotors and I would NOT recommend them. Although they worked for street driving, multiple instructors have told me to never run cross drilled rotors on the track. I tossed my set after my incident at Thunderhill, they got severely scored by the back plates after my brake pads virtually MELTED away. As replacements I got myself the Spec37 Slotted rotors and I noticed a marked improvement at the track. On the street I didn't notice any sort of improvement, but according to Wilwood these rotors are made with stronger steel and hold up to even tighter tolerances.

My conclusion:
1. BP-20 Pads are good, stick with them for the street
2. Toss the cross drilled rotors and get a set of plain blanks or the Spec37 rotors.
3. Double check that the calipers are installed correctly. The bigger diameter pistons (each caliper has 4 small pistons and 2 big ones, one on each side), should be on the trailing end of the caliper in relation to the spinning of the wheel.
4. Lube up the pistons with some brake assembly grease, with your amount of mileage it could be possible that brake dust has made one or more of the pistons is not move as effortlessly as before.

Hope this helps,

Jose

 

[RAAMaudio]

I concur though not all at Wilwood are clueless, just some of them which is too many, the BP20 pads are for the lower dust cruiser crowd and not a track pad in the least.

I had them for the front and rear and found out too late they were wrong for the duty to get some more appropriate pads in time and spent $460 or so getting some Carbotech pads and over night shipped but at least I was able to make 80+ laps at MMP that weekend on the very fast outer loop.

Spec 37 rotors, I run them front and rear on my car and expect lots of life and great performance out of them

 

[Joszer]

I concur though not all at Wilwood are clueless, just some of them which is too many, the BP20 pads are for the lower dust cruiser crowd and not a track pad in the least.

I had them for the front and rear and found out too late they were wrong for the duty to get some more appropriate pads in time and spent $460 or so getting some Carbotech pads and over night shipped but at least I was able to make 80+ laps at MMP that weekend on the very fast outer loop.

Spec 37 rotors, I run them front and rear on my car and expect lots of life and great performance out of them

How many miles do you have on yours so far? I have about 500 track miles and ~6k daily driving miles on them and I am already starting to get some superficial heat cracking on them. Also which carbotechs are you using? XP10's 12's? Have you used any of Hawk's products? I wonder how they compare, I'm able to get almost 2 full track days at Thunderhill with a set of the Hawk DTC-60's, that equates to about ~200 miles of track time.

 

[antarctica24]

Hey Antarctica,

I have had my kit for about 12,000 miles and I have experimented with different rotors and 5 different types of pads with this kit. First of all, as much as I hate to say it, Wilwood knows JACK SHIT about their pads. I almost killed myself on Turn 1 at Thunderhill going ~110 mph because my BP-20 pads failed on me before the turn. I called their support line and spoke with Ryan to ask them what pad might suit me better because their BP-20's failed on me at the track. Instead of receiving solid constructive advice, I was told that:
1. I did not bed in the pads accordingly (I did)
2. I was braking too aggressively
3. His friend has a Turbo'ed supra that gets tracked with these same pads and they hold up for him
4. I am silly for considering a more aggressive pad because of my "novice" experience.

Despite me showing him video and photographic evidence of the pad's inability to hold up at the track, he refused to believe that the BP-20's were not a track pad.

Take it from me, since I have used the BP-10's, BP-20's, BP-30's, Polymatrix B, and HAWK DTC-60 pads on this kit. The BP-20's are PERFECTLY suited for street use and ONLY street use with AutoX included. I would not recommend the BP-10's as their bite incredibly sucks and does not increase as more pressure is added on the pedal and for an extra $10 you can get the 20's. All the other pads listed are strictly track pads.

I tracked with the Drilled and Slotted rotors and I would NOT recommend them. Although they worked for street driving, multiple instructors have told me to never run cross drilled rotors on the track. I tossed my set after my incident at Thunderhill, they got severely scored by the back plates after my brake pads virtually MELTED away. As replacements I got myself the Spec37 Slotted rotors and I noticed a marked improvement at the track. On the street I didn't notice any sort of improvement, but according to Wilwood these rotors are made with stronger steel and hold up to even tighter tolerances.

My conclusion:
1. BP-20 Pads are good, stick with them for the street
2. Toss the cross drilled rotors and get a set of plain blanks or the Spec37 rotors.
3. Double check that the calipers are installed correctly. The bigger diameter pistons (each caliper has 4 small pistons and 2 big ones, one on each side), should be on the trailing end of the caliper in relation to the spinning of the wheel.
4. Lube up the pistons with some brake assembly grease, with your amount of mileage it could be possible that brake dust has made one or more of the pistons is not move as effortlessly as before.

Hope this helps,

Jose

Jose,

If nothing else, we can absolutely agree that Wilwood knows nothing about the product they sell. NOTHING. How do you manufacture a product and not know anything about how it performs other than to say, "You must not be using it right" or "it works on my buddys car, so it must be ok", that is the same stupid response I got from 2J Racing. We have not had any complaints therefore it must be you.

I now have 108,000 on the car, still on the original clutch I might add. WOW and still bone dry underneath. Another WOW, especially for FORD. Regardless, here are my thoughts,
I do think the BP 20 might be too much pad for the street. I completely get what your saying, but the Spec37 may be the solution. do you have the Wilwood part number?. Do you know what the Spec rotor is that 2J sold us, because Wilwood even with a part number cant decipher that information about their own product. I threw the slotted things in the trash and replaced with a second set of the solid ones 2J had. They lasted about 2 months, then I had to turn them, and that lasted about 20 days before they were warped again.

I feel very certain that the issue here is the number of miles. While everyone else is driving 12,000 miles in a year, I am doing that in 60 days, and while I am not racing, it apparently makes no difference. There appears to not be enough carbon or nickel or both in the in the rotor. What I need is the rotor that is used on a Brembo set for the Vette, or Porche. Wilwood is a wanna be company and I should have realized that 10 years ago when I was messing with their stuff. The problem was I was not driving near as much.

Here's what I will do:

With all of the research you have done, have you been able to determine a part number for a brembo rotor that would work with these calipers, understanding that a new hat may be required.
If not, do you have the Wilwood part number for the Spec37 rotor for our application?
When I take them off to replace them which I need to do sooner rather than later, I will recheck to make sure the larger piston is in the trailing position (pretty certain they are, there is only one way to install caliper with nipples facing north), and will lube the pistons. I just need the part number for the rotors, I assume the same hats will work.

 

[Joszer]

Jose,

If nothing else, we can absolutely agree that Wilwood knows nothing about the product they sell. NOTHING. How do you manufacture a product and not know anything about how it performs other than to say, "You must not be using it right" or "it works on my buddys car, so it must be ok", that is the same stupid response I got from 2J Racing. We have not had any complaints therefore it must be you.

I now have 108,000 on the car, still on the original clutch I might add. WOW and still bone dry underneath. Another WOW, especially for FORD. Regardless, here are my thoughts,
I do think the BP 20 might be too much pad for the street. I completely get what your saying, but the Spec37 may be the solution. do you have the Wilwood part number?. Do you know what the Spec rotor is that 2J sold us, because Wilwood even with a part number cant decipher that information about their own product. I threw the slotted things in the trash and replaced with a second set of the solid ones 2J had. They lasted about 2 months, then I had to turn them, and that lasted about 20 days before they were warped again.

I feel very certain that the issue here is the number of miles. While everyone else is driving 12,000 miles in a year, I am doing that in 60 days, and while I am not racing, it apparently makes no difference. There appears to not be enough carbon or nickel or both in the in the rotor. What I need is the rotor that is used on a Brembo set for the Vette, or Porche. Wilwood is a wanna be company and I should have realized that 10 years ago when I was messing with their stuff. The problem was I was not driving near as much.

Here's what I will do:

With all of the research you have done, have you been able to determine a part number for a brembo rotor that would work with these calipers, understanding that a new hat may be required.
If not, do you have the Wilwood part number for the Spec37 rotor for our application?
When I take them off to replace them which I need to do sooner rather than later, I will recheck to make sure the larger piston is in the trailing position (pretty certain they are, there is only one way to install caliper with nipples facing north), and will lube the pistons. I just need the part number for the rotors, I assume the same hats will work.

The hats do work, the numbers are as follows:

Slotted: 160-12291 and 160-12292
Blank: 160-12289 and 160-12290

They each have different part numbers because they're directional.

It could also be noted that you may benefit from using the BP10's, maybe a less aggressive pad may make the rotors last longer.

I know TCE Performance makes custom rotors for our cars. They make a bracket and rotor for our kits that enable us to use a 13" rotor. I am going to consider it once I burn through my current set. I'd give them a call, they have been racing with Wilwood's products for years and will heed their advice more than Wilwood.

Double check the pistons and don't use the nipples as a reference because these calipers are bidirectional (each caliper has nipples on both ends)

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have had many BBK brands over the years and all can have issues and Wilwood has not been any worse than the others all things considered. I have had several setups on different cars, my only major concern is the thin pads on the DP6 calipers which requires more frequent and thus more time and expense but the cost of the systems helps a huge amount to offset it.

Before having rotors turned make sure to consider the symptoms as it is seldom what is needed. Usually it is pad build up from keeping the pads against the rotors when they are really hot transferring material which is how brakes work but making them thicker in one area causing the pulsating pedal most think is warped rotors. After I come off the track I barely use the brakes and if I know really hot I move the car every minute or two so the pads are over different parts of the rotors.

 

[Joszer]

I have had many BBK brands over the years and all can have issues and Wilwood has not been any worse than the others all things considered. I have had several setups on different cars, my only major concern is the thin pads on the DP6 calipers which requires more frequent and thus more time and expense but the cost of the systems helps a huge amount to offset it.

Before having rotors turned make sure to consider the symptoms as it is seldom what is needed. Usually it is pad build up from keeping the pads against the rotors when they are really hot transferring material which is how brakes work but making them thicker in one area causing the pulsating pedal most think is warped rotors. After I come off the track I barely use the brakes and if I know really hot I move the car every minute or two so the pads are over different parts of the rotors.

I remembering reading an article on stoptech's website that warped rotors are a huge myth nowdays, that brake jutter comes from uneven pad deposits on the rotors.

Found it, here's the link

http://www.stoptech.com/technical-support/technical-white-papers/-warped-brake-disc-and-other-myths

 

[RAAMaudio]

Putting on the harshest pads you have and do some hard stops to clean off buildup usually does the trick, I have had luck with even stock type pads doing the job. Worst case I had required some steel wool and brake cleaner but only did that once. I have only had one set of rotors turned ever and it was not needed as I learned after the fact.

Another issue, grooved rotors, they are fine to use as long as not severe, the pads wear to fit. I have put on a huge number of miles on grooved rotors with no issues and that included track time.

Heat checked rotors, fine as well and normal on a track car, sometimes on a street car, again I have used them for long periods of time on the track and street in a dual purpose car.

I have cracked rotors on track which is quite different than the normal heat checking that happens quite often. This leads me to take a good look at them after every session, especially on hot days. I check the tire pressure, temps across the tread, look over the brakes, check the oil and water, etc every time I come off the track or go back out depending on the part, heat, etc.....

I do a full nut and bolt check before every track event as well, looks for leaks, check hoses to ensure not stiff, pad thickness, etc....