Post-track day - Torque vectoring is a pain!

[Moonchopper]

So I ran my first track day at Virginia International Raceway two weekends ago with Tarheel Sports Car Club, where we ran Full Course the first day, and Grand course the second. Here's my last run at Grand:

[video=youtube;U40MMpN5lr4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U40MMpN5lr4[/video]

Setup:
Hawk Performance DTC-60 front pads
Full synthetic 5w-20 (probably could have gone with 5w-30 just for the track weekend)
Rest completely stock.

The days started out at maybe 40 degrees F, and made it up to no higher than 65-70 degrees on Sunday. Tried to keep tire pressures around 38psi in the front, 36psi in the rear. My fastest time at Full Course was 2:30, and my fastest time on Grand was 3:25 - the Full Course time was about 5-7 seconds off of my fastest time when I had my Camaro SS (coilovers + headers & tune), so really not bad at all (and I'm sure it would have been MUCH closer on Grand, if not faster). Had no cooling issues at all, and other than a torn valve stem on that Sunday after my first time on Grand course, no other issues while at the track. Some guys with SascoSports at the Technology Park on-site were gracious enough to replace the valve stem for me (despite not really being open) - Huge thanks to them.

Now on to the bad:

Unfortunately, I cooked part of the rubber boot on the right front caliper (which was brand new, after an $850 mistake I made swapping out pads... I am not a smart man). The front left caliper was just fine (also brand new). I think that the damage to the right front caliper was due to torque vectoring, given that there are A LOT of right-hand turns that you can really power out of at VIR, meaning a lot more braking was being applied to the front right wheel than the left front. I'm thinking that for my next track event, I will want to have some ducting and/or a big brake kit upgrade to prevent the calipers from getting so hot.

All in all, the switch from a RWD to FWD car took a lot of getting used to, but I think the FiST was a hell of a lot more fun to take around the corners. Now I just need a separate pair of track/autocross tires for extra grip! After fixing the caliper problem, of course...

 

[willsolo]

Did you have ESC completely turned off?

 

[Moonchopper]

Yes, ESC was completely turned off - Although, I'm a little confused, because my Sister-in-law's 2015 Fiesta ST supposedly has a 'sport mode' that gets turned on when she hits her ESC button - the center console indicates it as 'sport mode,' too. Mine simply goes to 'ESC Off,' and makes no mention of a 'sport mode' - The light on my dash even says 'Off' (with the little car+street icon above it). I'm wondering if perhaps the 2014 models don't have the 'sport mode'? In any case, there seems to be no difference in display when I held the ESC off button for a long time (10+ seconds, like I would on my Camaro).

Also, I know that ESC was mostly off (if not completely off), because I accidentally left it turned on for my second session on the first day, and I could REALLY tell a huge difference - I misattributed my 'difficulties' in the corners to Torque Vectoring, when it was, in fact, ESC.

 

[Siestarider]

My experience on track with ESC fully off led to my first major modification, Quaife LSD. Experience since then, stock brakes and stock pads work well enough to wear out my BFG SC-2's while gradually learning to drive the car faster on track.

Controlling 4 wheel drift with throttle through turns is one of the greatest feelings. I do not believe its available without an LSD.

Even with LSD, there is some TV going on, but its so subtle that even logging both front wheels speeds at track and comparing them on 0.05 sec steps, I cannot say from spreadsheet data for sure when a brake is applied. I have not found a way to log brake application directly with AP.

My next experiment on track will be BFG Rival S, should be sticky enough to reveal whether stock brakes can survive faster tracking.

Short version, if you love tracking, get LSD.

 

[Volumetrik]

Yes, ESC was completely turned off - Although, I'm a little confused, because my Sister-in-law's 2015 Fiesta ST supposedly has a 'sport mode' that gets turned on when she hits her ESC button - the center console indicates it as 'sport mode,' too. Mine simply goes to 'ESC Off,' and makes no mention of a 'sport mode' - The light on my dash even says 'Off' (with the little car+street icon above it). I'm wondering if perhaps the 2014 models don't have the 'sport mode'? In any case, there seems to be no difference in display when I held the ESC off button for a long time (10+ seconds, like I would on my Camaro).

Also, I know that ESC was mostly off (if not completely off), because I accidentally left it turned on for my second session on the first day, and I could REALLY tell a huge difference - I misattributed my 'difficulties' in the corners to Torque Vectoring, when it was, in fact, ESC.

I have a 2014 model year and when I hit the traction control button, ''sport mode'' appears on the sync display.

If I hold the button, I get a slider bar that takes about 5-7 seconds to go through and it says ''track mode'' (or something to that effect) after the slider completes.

Visually on the gauge cluster, there is no extra light IIRC. The same light appears for either ''sport mode'' or ''track mode''.

 

[Moonchopper]

My experience on track with ESC fully off led to my first major modification, Quaife LSD. Experience since then, stock brakes and stock pads work well enough to wear out my BFG SC-2's while gradually learning to drive the car faster on track.

Controlling 4 wheel drift with throttle through turns is one of the greatest feelings. I do not believe its available without an LSD.

Even with LSD, there is some TV going on, but its so subtle that even logging both front wheels speeds at track and comparing them on 0.05 sec steps, I cannot say from spreadsheet data for sure when a brake is applied. I have not found a way to log brake application directly with AP.

My next experiment on track will be BFG Rival S, should be sticky enough to reveal whether stock brakes can survive faster tracking.

Short version, if you love tracking, get LSD.

The experience of being able to control my turn with throttle input was absolutely exhilarating to me. I don't think it was near the extent that you can accomplish, but compared to the Camaro, I have been much more enthusiastic about the amount of control I have over the FiST in the turns. Unfortunately, the LSD may be a ways off for me, because I will be autocrossing the FiST as well, and I'm not certain I would be able to stay in H Street with an LSD. Of course, I'm not really doing autocross competitively, but I'd like to stick in H Street if possible. Maybe further down the road Plus, I just dropped $850 in my car for a really stupid mistake already, so another $1k might have to wait further down the road.

I have a 2014 model year and when I hit the traction control button, ''sport mode'' appears on the sync display.

If I hold the button, I get a slider bar that takes about 5-7 seconds to go through and it says ''track mode'' (or something to that effect) after the slider completes.

Visually on the gauge cluster, there is no extra light IIRC. The same light appears for either ''sport mode'' or ''track mode''.

When referring to Traction Control button, we are talking about the button that says 'ESC Off,' correct? I'll try to pay a little more attention to this, and see if perhaps I'm just being dumb and inattentive.

 

[Volumetrik]

When referring to Traction Control button, we are talking about the button that says 'ESC Off,' correct? I'll try to pay a little more attention to this, and see if perhaps I'm just being dumb and inattentive.

Yes, exactly

 

[Siestarider]

I worried about which class I would run in for first year of ownership. Once bit by the track bug, I don't care about classes. Just getting better than I was last time out.

While I am getting better, so is the car. LSD is fantastic mod for track. Now cooling mods, better tires, etc. Its all good fun.

 

[Moonchopper]

The LSD will eventually be a thing, I'm sure - I just haven't had a chance to autocross the FiST yet, so I'm wanting to see how it fares in H Street. From what I understand, it's kind of an overdog in this classing.

 

[Plainrt]

My experience on track with ESC fully off led to my first major modification, Quaife LSD. Experience since then, stock brakes and stock pads work well enough to wear out my BFG SC-2's while gradually learning to drive the car faster on track.

Controlling 4 wheel drift with throttle through turns is one of the greatest feelings. I do not believe its available without an LSD.

Even with LSD, there is some TV going on, but its so subtle that even logging both front wheels speeds at track and comparing them on 0.05 sec steps, I cannot say from spreadsheet data for sure when a brake is applied. I have not found a way to log brake application directly with AP.

My next experiment on track will be BFG Rival S, should be sticky enough to reveal whether stock brakes can survive faster tracking.

Short version, if you love tracking, get LSD.

I laugh at this 4 wheel drift comment........

 

[haste]

Glad to hear you had a good time, Moonchopper. Were you able to complete the climbing esses at WOT? I love that section, especially with the South bend right after...

I'm going back out on track during hyperfest in May and can't wait. Lovely circuit...

It's odd seeing it so desolate in your video!

Were you running solo or with an instructor?

 

[Moonchopper]

Yea, I'd have to say that the climbing esses are probably my favorite part of the track - such a blast if you hit them right. I was MAYBE full throttle? I didn't have the pedal all the way down, but if it's anything like my Camaro, then 3/4 pedal is basically WOT. I wasn't able to convince myself to go flat out through it, though.

I ran with an instructor 7 of my 8 sessions - this recording is from my last session, and a majority of the people that were running in front of me were fairly quick, so there wasn't much in the way of traffic. The earlier sessions were a bit painful, but I got through them.

Also, if anyone was curious, I DO think I had my car in sport mode, and ESC may have been on - I don't get a 'sport mode' indicator on my center console, but if I hold the 'ESC Off' button down, it does come up with a display indicating to hold it down for a bit longer to turn on stability control. That might have been the little bit that caused my front left caliper to burn up. Who knows! Maybe I'll rebuild a spare caliper I have, slap it on, and see how things go with ESC completely off in September.

 

[JTP]

Wow that sucks melting calipers.... I am going to my first track day with the Fiesta at Buttonwillow raceway. I got some Ferrodo DS2500 pads for the front so hopefully I don't do any melting. I don't really think Buttonwillow is too hard on brakes anyways. But I will make sure to turn ESC off all the way!!

 

[Motorstate]

Had the same thing happen to me. I wrote about it on FiestaST.org
http://www.fiestast.org/forum/fiesta-st-discussions/5202-track-day-breakage.html
heres a video of the run that melted everything. Middle to end you can see the rotars glowing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yS6PtiApUc0

 

[JTP]

Wow that is crazy! Do you think using more of a race pad would have saved you?

 

[Motorstate]

Wow that is crazy! Do you think using more of a race pad would have saved you?

I did have a set of Hawk HPS pads on the front. Pretty sure that was part of the problem. They worked great but ate the rotars. The true problem is the torque vectoring. And even if you turn of traction control off completely the torque vectoring can't be turned off period. I learned the hard way that the cars are only good for about 15 minuets of hard driving before they really need to cool off.