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Pierce motorsports or tb performance braces?
- Thread starter Plainrt
- Start date
I am a bit skeptical of the braces out there.
On the other hand I have heard that the anti-sway bar can cause some deflection in the k-member. I just haven't looked to see if any of these "braces" would do anything about that.
One of these days I would love to fabricate a tubular k-member with all the strength it needs (and probably save some weight at the same time). Until I get to that I'm going to leave it until it becomes an issue for me.
On the other hand I have heard that the anti-sway bar can cause some deflection in the k-member. I just haven't looked to see if any of these "braces" would do anything about that.
One of these days I would love to fabricate a tubular k-member with all the strength it needs (and probably save some weight at the same time). Until I get to that I'm going to leave it until it becomes an issue for me.
Thread Starter
#3
I'm looking to get rid of some of the 3 wheeling the car does and I heard it helps that. Car is great beating around on street but can see where braces could help some with flex get during autocross
Three wheeling happens because the car has more roll stiffness at the rear than the front. That is roll stiffness, not chassis stiffness.
I don't see three wheeling as a problem, that roll stiffness was intentional because the ST specific front anti-sway bar is not as stiff as the base model and the ST specific rear axle is stiffer than the base model.
That (and the shocks/springs) is how the Fiesta ST gets its handling balance.
Chassis braces help if your springs and shocks are so stiff that the chassis starts to flex more than your springs deflect when you hit a bump or go around a corner. In a car with a weak chassis or a front engine rear drive configuration where three wheeling is very bad, braces can be useful. In a front wheel drive car where the rear does not significantly contribute to acceleration, braking or cornering, the rear suspension is mostly just along for the ride (which is why three-wheeling isn't bad) and the chassis doesn't really need to be stiff.
In a Fiesta because the car and engine are so small, the strut towers are very close to the firewall so that is pretty stiff which keeps the strut top locations pretty consistent. The k-member is small and mounted close to the firewall too, that makes for a pretty stiff structure also.
Once the front of the chassis is stiff enough to maintain the suspension geometry over a pretty good bump, you are done unless you are going to bash it like a rally car.
Most of the braces out there don't seem likely to improve anything from my cursory assessment. The two point k-member braces look like they might be useful but the ones I have seen seem to mount in a way that doesn't look terribly stiff. I think adding structure from the front A-arm mount location up to the firewall would add more chassis stiffness than anything I have seen but that type of bracing is not being sold because it would not bolt up conveniently to existing holes and fasteners.
On many sporty cars if you have convenient holes and fasteners, someone will make a brace that bolts up whether it does anything or not.
I don't see three wheeling as a problem, that roll stiffness was intentional because the ST specific front anti-sway bar is not as stiff as the base model and the ST specific rear axle is stiffer than the base model.
That (and the shocks/springs) is how the Fiesta ST gets its handling balance.
Chassis braces help if your springs and shocks are so stiff that the chassis starts to flex more than your springs deflect when you hit a bump or go around a corner. In a car with a weak chassis or a front engine rear drive configuration where three wheeling is very bad, braces can be useful. In a front wheel drive car where the rear does not significantly contribute to acceleration, braking or cornering, the rear suspension is mostly just along for the ride (which is why three-wheeling isn't bad) and the chassis doesn't really need to be stiff.
In a Fiesta because the car and engine are so small, the strut towers are very close to the firewall so that is pretty stiff which keeps the strut top locations pretty consistent. The k-member is small and mounted close to the firewall too, that makes for a pretty stiff structure also.
Once the front of the chassis is stiff enough to maintain the suspension geometry over a pretty good bump, you are done unless you are going to bash it like a rally car.
Most of the braces out there don't seem likely to improve anything from my cursory assessment. The two point k-member braces look like they might be useful but the ones I have seen seem to mount in a way that doesn't look terribly stiff. I think adding structure from the front A-arm mount location up to the firewall would add more chassis stiffness than anything I have seen but that type of bracing is not being sold because it would not bolt up conveniently to existing holes and fasteners.
On many sporty cars if you have convenient holes and fasteners, someone will make a brace that bolts up whether it does anything or not.
the braces actually have helped out a lot more than you think. As the rear torsion bar is loaded up the added brace helps to keep it from twisting keeping the tires in contact with the road. The reviews on sway bars is actually what is mixed with how stiff the body of the car is. The front cradle on the ST is a lot more robust than on the standard fiesta which is why the ST has a smaller rate sway bar than the standard. Across several different forums its been reported that going to a stiffer sway bar on the ST has cracked the front cradle, not to mention its a PITA to install.
The car from the factory has a decent amount of travel even for being sporty, has the weight transfers in the corner the body lifts up and can bring the wheel up since the car is actually a bit top heavy. Getting the car lower will help to keep the weigh down. In my experience so far with the car (H&R springs, TB rear torsion brace, pierce truck brace) having upgraded the springs and adding the bracing has significantly improved my lap times.
As far was which one is best, that is more up to you. I have the TB and it hasn't given me any issues, pierce came out with there's later on and it is a bit more refined design. I would say for autox or hpde its a must have.
The car from the factory has a decent amount of travel even for being sporty, has the weight transfers in the corner the body lifts up and can bring the wheel up since the car is actually a bit top heavy. Getting the car lower will help to keep the weigh down. In my experience so far with the car (H&R springs, TB rear torsion brace, pierce truck brace) having upgraded the springs and adding the bracing has significantly improved my lap times.
As far was which one is best, that is more up to you. I have the TB and it hasn't given me any issues, pierce came out with there's later on and it is a bit more refined design. I would say for autox or hpde its a must have.
I have a Pierce setup. (Strut tower brace, 2-point chassis brace and the rear torsion brace) While I haven't had a chance to thrash on them yet I can account for the high quality of the Pierce pieces. Very nice powder coat silver finish and good quality welds. I would highly recommend Pierce if you are on the fence as to what brand to get.
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