Scion is DEAD

[mouse]

http://jalopnik.com/scion-is-dead-all-cars-to-become-toyotas-instead-1756812671

It's about time, but at the same time it sucks. They came out of the gate with some interesting cars(loved the original XB) and then just failed to add to it's lineup or they waited too long to update them. Not to mention that all of their cars are re-badged cars from their own toyota lineup and one from another brand all together. I think Toyota has gone the way of GM and VW, where you're basically getting the same cars mechanically just with different skins(platform sharing.)

 

[Izzy]

It's all the same. Only in America do you have to rebrand something to make it appealing to a different demographic. Acura doesn't exist in Japan. They release all vehicles under the Honda brand. We are such snobs they have to create a new name to make us believe it's any better of a product. Sad really.

 

[Wimp Lo]

This is a little sad. Scion was created to bring in a younger group of buyers and it did.

Every manufacturer needs entry level cars that are fun to drive and the reliability of Toyota was a selling point for people who have a limited budget.

Without Scion, they might lose sight of that because Toyota has a history of making really boring cars.

 

[jaynometry]

Hits a soft spot for me because I had an xB that I bought new in 2013. That said, I knew it was just a matter of time. Scion as a brand just didn't sell enough cars. I wonder if the FR-S will be called the GT-86 now that it's a 'Toyota'.

 

[Butterybunz]

Hits a soft spot for me because I had an xB that I bought new in 2013. That said, I knew it was just a matter of time. Scion as a brand just didn't sell enough cars. I wonder if the FR-S will be called the GT-86 now that it's a 'Toyota'.

I would assume so. My girlfriend just bought a 2013 FR-S a few months ago. She wanted a BRZ simply because she felt Subaru was a better brand name but we ended up finding a good deal on an FR-S.

 

[Hijinx]

This is a little sad. Scion was created to bring in a younger group of buyers and it did.

Every manufacturer needs entry level cars that are fun to drive and the reliability of Toyota was a selling point for people who have a limited budget.

Without Scion, they might lose sight of that because Toyota has a history of making really boring cars.

What history was that? Because from what I can recall, they've had a great past... Let's name a few, shall we? We'll start with the obvious.

Supra
Corolla Levin
Sprinter Trueno
70s Celica
Celica GT-Four
Celica All-trac
MR2
2000GT

That's a boring history? Their snooze-fest came on around the turn of the century. To each their own, I guess.

 

[frankiefiesta]

What history was that? Because from what I can recall, they've had a great past... Let's name a few, shall we? We'll start with the obvious.

Supra
Corolla Levin
Sprinter Trueno
70s Celica
Celica GT-Four
Celica All-trac
MR2
2000GT

That's a boring history? Their snooze-fest came on around the turn of the century. To each their own, I guess.

I agree with this. Their regular cars might be vanilla and boring, but who's aren't? Let's not forget their Lexus offerings

Sc300 (soarer)
Is-F
RC-F
GS-F
Gs350 f sport
LFA

Toyota makes fun cars, they just don't advertise them much

 

[IrishST]

I'm of the mind that splitting a small subset of cars to Scion was stupid so in a way I'm happy to hear this. I agree with Izzy up there that it's crazy how in America we have to rebrand everything so 'the right people' will actually pay attention to it. With Scion, though, I think that worked against it since it was known as the car brand for annoying kids and early twenty-somethings.

That said, it is kinda sad to hear as well because I did have a Scion back in the day. I've always been a hot hatch fan, however when I was younger I couldn't afford the 'hot' and had to settle for just the 'hatch' so I owned an xA for a few years. Ran true to Toyota's name and that thing never gave me a single problem other than the A/C compressor going bad early (under 1k miles). From that point forward I had not one warranty repair and only ever did maintenance until I finally traded it in after ~3.5 years and ~60k miles.

There is a major plus to this though... no more of that "pure price" bullshit. How many people bought a BRZ Premium over an FR-S not just for the name, but because the BR-Z Premium had better standard features than the FR-S and the price was only a few hundred dollars apart, at least in '15 and '16. This really hurt Scion because not only was the BRZ Premium only a few hundred dollars more, dealers would haggle a little and you could very likely get one for the same price, or even a little less than the FR-S, while the Scion had the "no haggle pure price" crap and wouldn't budge on the price unless you got really, really lucky. I actually almost bought a left over '15 FR-S when the lot was stocked with '16's and they wouldn't budge an inch on pricing because "Scion doesn't do that".

 

[Chris G]

Hits a soft spot for me because I had an xB that I bought new in 2013. That said, I knew it was just a matter of time. Scion as a brand just didn't sell enough cars. I wonder if the FR-S will be called the GT-86 now that it's a 'Toyota'.

From what I've gathered, they are going to keep a handful of cars moving, FR-S included, and re-badge them as Toyotas.

 

[scotman]

This is a little sad. Scion was created to bring in a younger group of buyers and it did.

Every manufacturer needs entry level cars that are fun to drive and the reliability of Toyota was a selling point for people who have a limited budget.

Without Scion, they might lose sight of that because Toyota has a history of making really boring cars.

Toyota stumbled from day one with Scion. They dumped Celica, MR2 and Supra. Then forced dealers to create separate showroom space to sell the new brand with no haggle pricing! Then, when the product backs off the truckls, the styling is odd and clunky. I drove a Tc, the drive was OK but it just lacked that certain something for me. I had hope Toyota would find a groove but it just never did. I can't remember its ranking of consideration but it was below kia/Hyundai and below Dodge! Dodge makes almost no upscale youth effort for small cars and crossover's!

 

[Thirty-Two]

The first-gen Scion xB is a car akin to the Fiesta ST. Coming in at 2300lbs and with the ability to carry as much as slightly larger (and much heavier) SUV/CUVs, while still being engaging to drive, and achieving around 30mpg it punches way above its weight class. My brother is actually looking at a 1st Gen for himself right now.

Scion had a great product with the xB. They lost sight of their vision and left themselves get stale. Toyota had the ability introduce quirky cars (they sure had available) with Toyota dependability and a cheaper pricepoint, but I guess they didn't want the risk of doing so. They could have offered a Scion MiniTruck with 1st gen xB styling, something akin to the Miata, a Toyota Aygo rebadge, and a rugged 4x4 using the Land Cruiser but packaged/designed as a Jeep Wrangler fighter. But they got lazy and just straight up rebadged cars that could have been Toyotas in the first place.

 

[Fasta123]

The first-gen Scion xB is a car akin to the Fiesta ST. Coming in at 2300lbs and with the ability to carry as much as slightly larger (and much heavier) SUV/CUVs, while still being engaging to drive, and achieving around 30mpg it punches way above its weight class. My brother is actually looking at a 1st Gen for himself right now.

Scion had a great product with the xB. They lost sight of their vision and left themselves get stale. Toyota had the ability introduce quirky cars (they sure had available) with Toyota dependability and a cheaper pricepoint, but I guess they didn't want the risk of doing so. They could have offered a Scion MiniTruck with 1st gen xB styling, something akin to the Miata, a Toyota Aygo rebadge, and a rugged 4x4 using the Land Cruiser but packaged/designed as a Jeep Wrangler fighter. But they got lazy and just straight up rebadged cars that could have been Toyotas in the first place.

How can you compare two cars around the same weight the xb with 105hp and the fist with 197. How could that carry the load of a small sub? I read somewhere its 0-60 was close to 11seconds

 

[Wimp Lo]

70s Celica wasn't all that. My mom had a '75 and it was reliable.

With the Camry and Prius Toyota set a new standard for boring cars.

They have made some nice cars but not much aimed at the youth/budget market.

Scion doing poorly should tell them that they need more fun and inexpensive cars, not that they need to fold the brand.

 

[Thirty-Two]

How can you compare two cars around the same weight the xb with 105hp and the fist with 197. How could that carry the load of a small sub? I read somewhere its 0-60 was close to 11seconds

Let me clarify. The xB and the FiST both punch above their supposed class. The 1st gen xB had as much space and way practicality than comparable vehicles at the time, with a reliable engine, great mpg, and being much more fun to drive (at least the manual) vs other similar cars, while coming in at a very reasonable price. It lead the way for the Soul, Cube, Element. The FiST is extremely practical, has great all-weather capability, good mpgs even when driving hard, and is more fun to drive than cars costing much more. Now Kia is developing a FiST fighter, Chevy is getting into the HotHatch territory and maybe more to come.
Both cars are extreme values, with unique characters. What is as absurd as a toaster on wheels, and a manic pocket-rocket based off the Fiesta? Now was I saying that they are one and the same, no. The xB was based off the Toyota Echo as a commuter/lifestyle car, the FiST, while based off regular Fiesta bones, it is engineered to be a hot-hatch.

 

[scotman]

Fiesta ST will probably be done and gone by the time Kia and Chevy step into this market, if they ever do.

 

[Wimp Lo]

I hope I am right about this but I think a Fiesta ST might be something we see for a long time. There might be the occasional model year gap like the Mustang Cobra but it is such a simple combination, there is no reason not to offer it.

RS cars have big gaps between models, I think the Focus RS might be around for 2-3 years and then disappear for who knows how long.

When you look at the markets served, the ST is an up market but still cheap economy car with good gas mileage. With trends toward city cars and hybrids, the Fiesta ST might become a practical choice for a sports car. The RS is going to be a WRX STI and Evo competitor that costs almost twice as much and doesn't get very good fuel economy.

Heck, I think the Fiesta ST makes more sense than the Fusion Sport but I think Ford is going to keep that around for a long time.

 

[nickstewartroc]

I think the big "deal" with the New Fusion Sport is that they want to discontinue the Taurus and move towards the Fusion, there is no refresh of the Taurus and possibly no SHO after this year either, so they need a "family" sedan that is "sporty" like the SHO, just my thought!

 

[scotman]

Fiesta ST is not a volume product. They are not common to find. The profit percentage at retail is very small. The sales history of small or compact performance cars like focus svt Or JCW mini or even Dodge neon SRT point to around five thousand units per year average. The market in america just won't absorb more than that number. Usually less. I think the JCW mini sells a bit above the average because its not really very mini in size and it has a dedicated enthusiast customer base. The domestic makers are chasing a volume sales plan, not incremental. Fiesta will be done and gone from America when it moves to the pacific rim from Mexico.

 

[JasonHaven]

My car for the previous 11 years to the FiST was a Scion xA. At the time it was pretty damned awesome... 2300lbs, 105hp wide torque band, short gearing, and really good gas mileage. Also it was surprisingly nifty in the corners. Fun and practical car, for dirt cheap. Was really reliable up until about 10 years in, then I had to get some work done. The ex-girlfriend drives it now (after I repaired it and I bought the FiST), so who knows how long it'll keep kicking haha

 

[IrishST]

I do agree that the FiST will be a limited run vehicle, at least in the US. My reasoning is that our car culture sucks ass compared to other countries. I'm not saying we're the only country that likes high HP and big speed, but we focus on it more than anyone else in my experience. In the UK, for example, people drive cars with 7 second 0-60 times and call them "proper quick", but in the US we see that as "OMG SO SLOW!!!!!111!!!1".

Just look at the car comparison comments on various sites... "Why would you buy a BRZ when you can have a V6 Mustang for the same price". Our car culture doesn't care as much about chassis refinement, handling FEEL, a car's spirit, the concept of 'driver's car', etc, as we do about raw power and speed and that sucks. It sucks because in the end it's why car companies can't afford to give us long runs of unique and fun cars like The FiST, the BRZ/FR-S, etc. We just don't buy them enough on the whole because the non-enthusiast is going to go to Ford and see the fully load FiST with a $25.6k sticker and then see the comparably equipped V6 Mustang with the same $25.6 sticker, or close enough, and choose the Mustang every time because Mustang and because both can be haggled under MSRP/sticker.

We are our own worst enemy when it comes to the cars available to us. Hell, the BRZ/FR-S is the perfect example of this. Enthusiasts begged for a competent handling, fun to drive, inexpensive RWD car for years and they got it. At first it was the second coming, then after a very short time all the "it's too slow" complaints started coming and year over year the sales dropped. Yes, the sales dropped partly because of those who wanted one already having one, but they also dropped because word got out that they were "dogs" and here in 'Murica we can't drive a car that can get beaten in a sprint by a V6 Camry/Accord/Minivan!

Fun fact - when both are professionally driven the twins match the FiST in 0-60 and 1/4 times, but the FiST is never really referred to as "slow" yet that's all you ever hear about the twins.

Why? The torque feel that is lacking on the twins? Or is it because we're a lazy culture and hate the idea of working for our speed by downshifting and reving the hell out of it? Could the twins have been faster off the shelf, sure, but considering they are purpose built and not just a re-working of an existing platform that is used to recoup the cost, it would have cost a helluva lot more than $25k to buy and then you're right back in the same boat, only this time it's "why buy the BRZ at $35k when I can get an STi, or Mustang GT w/ performance pack at the same price!".

Anyway, I'm ranting and going off base on the topic here, but in the end, we want these small, unique, quirky, fun, good handling cars for $25k or less, but we don't buy them enough when we get them and we complain too much about what else should have been included in that $25k so they don't last and it sucks.