Parts Interchangability

[reracer]

I see no offset built into the FiST hub carriers so any alignment changes must be in the beam itself.
I also don't believe that the hub carriers are directly interchangeable.
This would mean that other modifications would be required to get the disk brakes to work on the NON-ST beam.
However there are kits available for this so it should not be too much trouble.

I don't understand, if you think the FiST rear is too stiff, (personally I don't) why not add to the front bar.
Wouldn't that be a lot easer and cheaper?



Dave

First, I'm really looking for an increase in rear camber. The back end pushes out a little too easy for my taste, especially when you're on less that sticky tires. If it's not going to be a simple bolt on, then I'll find another way to get the camber I want.

I also like to run my cars a little soft. I think it makes them more fun to drive, and more forgiving. Mayne a softer beam will help keep all the wheels on the ground? Lastly, It might be nice to start with a softer beam, and tune additional stiffness into it, rather than starting with a stiff beam, and only be able to make it even stiffer.

There has to be a reason someone like Team O'Neil would want to run the softer beam...

 

[D1JL]

I too would like to change the rear camber.
This is why I purchased a set of rear hub carriers.
I just have not had the tine to build a fixture and re-machine them.




Dave

 

[reracer]

I too would like to change the rear camber.
This is why I purchased a set of rear hub carriers.
I just have not had the tine to build a fixture and re-machine them.

Dave

Dave, I looked at both beams online, and they are very different, so it's not gonna just bolt on. I'll Look into getting a one degree shims made. Should be easy enough to make out of some .250 6061 plate on a CNC machine. Maybe if I have them made, then I'll start selling them...

Rob

 

[D1JL]

I did look into that method before and found the shims to be expensive to make.
Maybe I went to a wrong CNC shop.
Remember that then the four bolts will be on an angle therefore the heads will not seat flat.
I thought of using a spherical washer set with longer ARP flange bolts to handle the load.

Good luck.
I want a set.



Dave

 

[reracer]

I know a place. What was the cost? If they were gonna CNC the whole thing, I bet they were pricey. I'll have them water jet out the shapes(cheap) then just mill the angle on them(simple). I might have them make a bunch of blanks, and then just have them milled(at different angles) as needed.

Dude, I'm OCD, but we're talking ONE DEGREE. The bolt alignment shouldn't be a big deal. If it is, the cone washers and cup seats will fix it.

What did the hubs cost?

 

[D1JL]

It has been some time and I don't recall what the cost was.
This shop was going to do them by water jet first as well.

We should be trying to get at least -2 degrees overall.
The beam has a sheer pin in it for position and strength and this would then not set deep enough into the hub carrier, so I would still use the ARP bolts.

The hub carriers were only around $36.00 each.
This why I was thinking of just milling them.



Dave

 

[RAAMaudio]

Make sure you look at camber and toe while doing this, I went for 1/16" toe in for some stability at speed.

I also looked into getting shims made, same results, to much money though we have a member here I talked to that was more reasonable but wanted an order of 10 sets.

Having swapped my knuckles, carriers, etc....right to left to put the calipers in more forward to make it easier to hook up the parking brake cables(4 piston WW with ears for parking brakes) and move the weight forward a bit I was quite sure there is camber and toe machined into the stock parts as it changed when swapping them.

I did put my carriers on a flat surface and measured them, still sure they have toe and camber dialed in as I had to shim them to drill the holes in for the caliper mounts I designed, they did not sit flat.

And the bolt angles Dave mentioned, that needs addressed if you machine the carriers.

That is why I decided to cut and reposition the axle flanges, not an easy job but now I have a far simpler method worked out and no mods needed if I ever swap carriers for any reason.

BUT, I found my digital castor/camber gauge was out of whack, fixed it and figured out an easier method which I will share with anybody contemplating this.

As for cutting and welding the flanges my car has been pounded over the curbs all out for 200 minutes of track time at MMP and on the rumble strips at speed, no worries, solid as a rock and I have inspected it very closely and did all weekend at the track.

I did not get ARP bolts, I should, let us know if you have them picked out, please

 

[reracer]

I did put my carriers on a flat surface and measured them, still sure they have toe and camber dialed inBUT, I found my digital castor/camber gauge was out of whack, fixed it and figured out an easier method which I will share with anybody contemplating this.

Ok, I'll bite. What's the easier way?

 

[RAAMaudio]

Full story, summary at the bottom:

I can edit it down after read or make a thread on it if not done, whatever is wanted, needed, etc....

I did this because I did not like the stock settings and I needed more camber to fit the 15x9 rear wheels as well as not able to get shims made or local shops to machine the stock knuckles.

First attemps:
Car on the lift, leveled very accurately, using strings along the pinch welds, axle moved into position, using magnetic base on gauge for camber, toe using the strings, straight edge, cutting flanges loose except rear lower corner, taping into place desired, tack welding, put all back together, drive around to settle it, check camber and toe....do it again, then again, then realize the gauge was jacked up, call the company, 3 week turn around time, ask if any jumpers cables, yes, open it up, use Pro Gold on the terminals, on and off a few times(incredible stuff) gauge works

After the second attempt I realized the load on the axle was not the same as on the ground, springs on, etc...I tried using the springs and closer to the actual load point on the axle but jacking up the axle with the tranny jack was lifting the car off the lift yet not in the right position for the axle so I had to abandon that idea.

I had time to think things over a bit as the side to side results would be different which had me thinking the axle flexed differently from one side to the other, which it might of been doing but with a jacked up gauge, hard to tell for sure.

Toe was coming out correct, stock was off one side to the other quite a bit, it was now centered, just camber off.

-----------------------

Then it came to me, the only way to really know for sure was to have an accurate method was the car on the ground so I measured the toe and camber one more time and calculated the degree change to just put into the camber and back on the lift.

I set the toe again but this time used the rotors and hubs as left the knuckles and rotors on, I used bailing wire, twisted tight, shims, etc, to lock it all into position, tack welded the 3 corners, put it all back together, on the ground, came out perfect after driving up and down the hill to settle it.

Back on the lift, removed it all except the knuckles to keep the axle flanges from warping, cranked up the welder for full penetration and fusion, welded 1" on one side of the car, 1" on the other side, moved around the flanges back and forth to allow cooling as the hubs were still on...checked hub temps to ensure not to hot...

Put it together, on the ground, checked out exactly like I wanted it to, went out and found all the bumps I could and some serious corners after than, all checked out fine, pounded the crap out of it at the track, solid as a rock

----------------------------

Summary:

Easiest method, car on the ground and level, full load on the car, measure toe and camber, calculate changes, either on lift or ground, cut flanges loose except on corner barely on, move to corrected positions, secure in place, tack weld corners well, back together, back on ground, settle suspension, OK, take apart and fully weld. Not OK, make corrections and then weld.

When done all you need is factory parts if you wear out or crack anything.

I could probably do this job in 2 hours now, using a lift, best tool I ever owned!