p0420 p1450 p2196 stink inside cabin

[WolfDampf]

Hi y'all! I purchased the car a few months ago. 2014 100k miles. The car has these codes and also stinks bad inside when flooring it but it also stinks a bit with normal acceleration. The car won't start after I fill the gas so I know I have evap issues needing to be repaired and ordered a new feed tube. Can these other codes be caused by the evap? Or does my catalytic converter also have issue 🙁. I went ahead and ordered new front and rear O2 sensors as well as I have heard these wear out with mileage? Thanks for everyone's input

 

[Sam4]

420 is usually fixed by an O2 spacer, or a new vape tip - one or the other. Are you sure you actually have a converter?

 

[WolfDampf]

420 is usually fixed by an O2 spacer, or a new vape tip - one or the other. Are you sure you actually have a converter?

The car is most certainly 100% stock. I did get under the car and I seen the stock catalytic converter is there and i couldn't find any signs of leakage like soot or rusted out spots. The flex pipe was also clean. My thought now is that the evap issue is causing extra fuel to enter the catalytic converter and cause the fuel smell when I accelerate as it's getting burnt up?

 

[WolfDampf]

420 is usually fixed by an O2 spacer, or a new vape tip - one or the other. Are you sure you actually have a converter?

What is a vape tip? I've never heard of that

 

[SteveS]

What is the stink you smell when accelerating? Raw fuel? Exhaust?

The p1450 refers to excess vacuum in the evaporative system.
The p2196 refers to O2 Sensor 1 biased/stuck rich, which means there's too much fuel. The P2196 code can be caused by a failed oxygen or mass air flow sensor, sensor circuit problems, fuel system problems, Evaporative Emission Control System (EVAP) issues, or a bad PCM.
p0420 says the O2 sensor detects lower than desired O2, and can also indicate a fueling problem.

If the smell you get is a fuel smell, all that points to a fuel problem. Since one code refers specifically to the evaporative system, I would say that is the primary cause of your problem. Either need a new canister or there's something wrong with the hoses and/or valve that are up front. Or maybe both.

Typically the bad canister doesn't cause raw fuel smell in the cabin. So I'd be concerned that there's some kind of overfueling problem in the engine compartment.

As an aside, the problem with stumbling/dying after fueling the car usually involves topping off after the pump initially shuts off, plus not giving the system time to settle down and vent before closing the gas cap (which happens when you pull the pump nozzle out of the gas filler). With the Fiesta ST you MUST NOT top off the gas, and you MUST leave the filler nozzle in the filler for a period of time-perhaps 15 seconds-before removing it.

 

[bshanahan14rulz]

SteveS, you seem to have a more thorough understanding of this stuff, might I ask your opinion on the evap problem in general?

I think we've all done the "p1450? replace purge valve" dance. But because there are several instances of this "bad" purge valve happening again afterwards, I'm suspicious that something upstream is bad, and causing the purge valve to disintegrate.

In my case, I have an intermittant signal code that mine throws from time to time, pointing to the evap solenoid(? the thing on the back of the charcoal canister), but I don't know that is always the case in other instances I've seen reported on the internet.

Are there shadetree mechanic tests I could perform on the charcoal canister and evap solenoid that you know of? Or, possible causes you can think of which might result in the rubber seal of the evap valve (in engine bay) deteriorating?

 

[WolfDampf]

What is the stink you smell when accelerating? Raw fuel? Exhaust?

The p1450 refers to excess vacuum in the evaporative system.
The p2196 refers to O2 Sensor 1 biased/stuck rich, which means there's too much fuel. The P2196 code can be caused by a failed oxygen or mass air flow sensor, sensor circuit problems, fuel system problems, Evaporative Emission Control System (EVAP) issues, or a bad PCM.
p0420 says the O2 sensor detects lower than desired O2, and can also indicate a fueling problem.

If the smell you get is a fuel smell, all that points to a fuel problem. Since one code refers specifically to the evaporative system, I would say that is the primary cause of your problem. Either need a new canister or there's something wrong with the hoses and/or valve that are up front. Or maybe both.

Typically the bad canister doesn't cause raw fuel smell in the cabin. So I'd be concerned that there's some kind of overfueling problem in the engine compartment.

As an aside, the problem with stumbling/dying after fueling the car usually involves topping off after the pump initially shuts off, plus not giving the system time to settle down and vent before closing the gas cap (which happens when you pull the pump nozzle out of the gas filler). With the Fiesta ST you MUST NOT top off the gas, and you MUST leave the filler nozzle in the filler for a period of time-perhaps 15 seconds-before removing it.

My car won't start at all after filling up no matter how long I leave the nozzle in. I always leave it in for at least 20 seconds before removing it and the car needs about 4 attempts to get it to start. Once started tho the car runs and starts fine until next fill up. I also never top off, first click for me. I already ordered the new purge valve up front just waiting on it. The smell I get is an exhaust smell

 

[SteveS]

SteveS, you seem to have a more thorough understanding of this stuff, might I ask your opinion on the evap problem in general?

I think we've all done the "p1450? replace purge valve" dance. But because there are several instances of this "bad" purge valve happening again afterwards, I'm suspicious that something upstream is bad, and causing the purge valve to disintegrate.

In my case, I have an intermittant signal code that mine throws from time to time, pointing to the evap solenoid(? the thing on the back of the charcoal canister), but I don't know that is always the case in other instances I've seen reported on the internet.

Are there shadetree mechanic tests I could perform on the charcoal canister and evap solenoid that you know of? Or, possible causes you can think of which might result in the rubber seal of the evap valve (in engine bay) deteriorating?

This is a good explanation of the evaporative system (on any car) and if you look at the diagram and read what each part does, it gets easier to understand what it does and how it can go wrong. https://www.carparts.com/blog/evaporative-emission-control-evap-system-101-the-basics/

As a general rule you can do smoke testing of the system to look for leaks which can really throw things off, and can cause fuel smells. But I don't really know of ways to test the valves themselves.

To the OP, your problem may come down to just a bad canister and bad purge valve, but smoke testing is also warranted just to make sure everything is really sealed up since you are getting fuel smells.

 

[Sam4]

What is a vape tip? I've never heard of that

a childish reference not germaine to the discussion...

 

[WolfDampf]

Installed new purge valve assembly. So far no lights and car no longer stumbles and starts right up after getting fuel

 

[M-Sport fan]

Is the interior fuel stench totally gone as well?

 

[rallytaff]

I have always rounded up my cost at the pump to a specific number, eg, 25 cents 50 cents etc. I have never had any problems driving off after re-fueling.I always replace the nozzle as soon as I've finished. How come I've avoided any problems?

 

[WolfDampf]

Is the interior fuel stench totally gone as well?

I only smell a bit of exhaust if I floor it which leads me to believe it's either a small exhaust leak or left over fuel in my catalytic converter from the bad purge valve. I'll report back after some miles

 

[WolfDampf]

I have always rounded up my cost at the pump to a specific number, eg, 25 cents 50 cents etc. I have never had any problems driving off after re-fueling.I always replace the nozzle as soon as I've finished. How come I've avoided any problems?

Where are located? Maybe different evap systems for different countries specifications? Or maybe you're just lucky not everyone seems to have the issue, only people with issues will think to post about it.

 

[M-Sport fan]

About once every 15 fill-ups I get a tiny bit of 'jumping/stumbling idle' for a few seconds, and it never ever actually stalls.

2016 with ~48K miles and all original evap system parts, and I never leave the nozzle in for more than a few seconds after auto-off, but I also never 'top up' more than ~0.05 worth either.

 

[WolfDampf]

Update: Totally fixed the stumbling/no start after fill up and the car runs a lot quicker now and noticably stronger wheel spin, however, I still have codes. I cleared the codes and the emisions learn after the install and now systems show ready with code p0420. As well as the exhaust smell when I floor it. I believe I have either an exhaust leak or failing cat. I'll get it to the exhaust shop soon enough but for now will hold off till funds are available

 

[SteveS]

Driving a couple hundred miles might help if the cat has been "poisoned" by too much fuel. But if you smell exhaust inside the car while driving with the windows closed, you may very well have an exhaust leak.

 

[WolfDampf]

Driving a couple hundred miles might help if the cat has been "poisoned" by too much fuel. But if you smell exhaust inside the car while driving with the windows closed, you may very well have an exhaust leak.

Exhaust smell inside cabin I found was due to the driver side vent behinds the bumper. I still had the p0420 code and I got p0454. I went ahead and added a spacer to the downstream O2 sensor to see if it eliminates the codes. I am fairly certain my catalytic converter is going because I smell a familiar exhaust stink outside the car now at idle lol. Just gotta find what's the p0454 for....