NEW Suspension, Soon to be Available

[reracer]

Because they are inverted does not make them "inverted." They're simply upside down. It can be confusing until you start looking into tarmac/gravel suspension setups.

Definition requested for "inverted". The rears sure do seem like they are "inverted" to me, especially when you compare with other "race" inverted dampeners. Eibach may have had different reasons for inverting the rear dampeners, but the result and the benefits are the same. Without proof to the contrary, like word from someone who actually works at Eibach, it's all speculation...on your part.

 

[reracer]

The only thing that comes to mind is possibly the location or orientation of the valving is changed on a truly inverted setup if just upside down is not the same as "inverted" when used in this regard.

In this particular case with the shock body up top and the spring down below the unsprung weight improvement would be partially or fully negated or even worsened if the spring weighed more than the shock body.

I still prefer it over inboard springs though I have inboards with the BC's and they are working quite well.

When you turn a standard dampener upside down you have to change the way the valving works, otherwise the dampener won't work correctly.

From what i remember of the chassis design reading I've done, springs are always considered half unsprung and half sprung weight. It doesn't matter where they are, at the bottom, top or inboard. The only real effect having the spring at the bottom is that it slightly lowers the CG, which is good. Plus you need to remember that the spring is at the bottom in the stock location anyway, so there are no drawbacks to this design.

 

[KKaWing]

Monotube dampers work regardless of orientation.

 

[shook sez]

Monotube dampers work regardless of orientation.

Bonus points for the use of damper as opposed (inverted?) to dampener.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Dampers, yes, that is the real term, not sure where shock absorber came from, might be a little like calling and engine a motor

I have not read that part of a suspension book for many years but I have to agree that I do not recall anything saying what end the weight is on, just divide the weight in half for the sprung and unsprung figures. CG is effected for certain and using stock locations versus further out might have more effect on that as well as further out might require stiffer or at least longer springs and thus more weight could be required than inboard mounted.

None of this is critical unless building an all out FWD race car as the front does the vast majority of the work.

 

[Hijinx]

Definition requested for "inverted". The rears sure do seem like they are "inverted" to me, especially when you compare with other "race" inverted dampeners. Eibach may have had different reasons for inverting the rear dampeners, but the result and the benefits are the same. Without proof to the contrary, like word from someone who actually works at Eibach, it's all speculation...on your part.

It's the build of the dampener that makes it inverted; not the orientation of the dampener.

 

[rodmoe]

Well I hope the bring the Coil on the shox and make then adjustable I find that would look cleaner and get rid on my crickets on the pssenger side LOL push the adjustable feature is great if you use it and now that i found it for track I doubt I will ever go back to stock units ... In for Info Thanks Dave

 

[reracer]

Bonus points for the use of damper as opposed (inverted?) to dampener.

My bad, dampers is correct.

 

[reracer]

It's the build of the dampener that makes it inverted; not the orientation of the dampener.

What specifically about the build makes it inverted?

 

[airjor13]

Well I hope the bring the Coil on the shox and make then adjustable I find that would look cleaner and get rid on my crickets on the pssenger side LOL push the adjustable feature is great if you use it and now that i found it for track I doubt I will ever go back to stock units ... In for Info Thanks Dave

This X2, if they do a true coil over in the rear, it will definitely make this more appealing

 

[Hijinx]

What specifically about the build makes it inverted?

Depends on if you're being petty or not. I don't explain things to people when they either already know the answer or THINK they know the answer.


Edit- KKaWing is nicer than I am.

 

[KKaWing]

What specifically about the build makes it inverted?

Inverted dampers have the part where the oil/piston/valves as the "smaller" tube that goes into the big tube. The traditional "shaft" is housed inside the "bigger" tube. This gives better structural rigidity. Traditional dampers have the oil/piston/valves in the "bigger" tube with the much thinner shaft sticking out.

Thanks Tein for the picture

 

[airjor13]

I like inverted purely because I like inverted forks on 2 wheels

 

[reracer]

Depends on if you're being petty or not. I don't explain things to people when they either already know the answer or THINK they know the answer.


Edit- KKaWing is nicer than I am.

Agreed, you are not nice. You assumed that I was being stubborn, or that I already knew the answer. I am only in search of knowledge. If you have some that I don't, I ask you to present it.

 

[reracer]

Inverted dampers have the part where the oil/piston/valves as the "smaller" tube that goes into the big tube. The traditional "shaft" is housed inside the "bigger" tube. This gives better structural rigidity. Traditional dampers have the oil/piston/valves in the "bigger" tube with the much thinner shaft sticking out.

Thanks Tein for the picture

The illustration you presented proves my point. The dampers are exactly the same, but the one on the right is "inverted". The one on the right includes the lower MacPherson strut housing(represented by the blue line) only because it is a front strut, and it is required to be there to allow it to attach to the knuckle. As i stated before, the main reason to "invert" a damper is to reduce the mass of the moving suspension parts, thus improving their performance. How they are attached to the car determines their outward appearance.

 

[Hijinx]

Thanks for the validation.

In an inverted damper/dampener (semantics), the piston is a part of the housing and does not move independently like it would in the "normal" orientated version. Like I said before, simply changing the orientation of a damper does not make it inverted; it is the build. Also, true inverted dampers are actually HEAVIER because they require more metal, and fluid. So you're wrong on that part too.

 

[reracer]

Thanks for the validation.

In an inverted damper/dampener (semantics), the piston is a part of the housing and does not move independently like it would in the "normal" orientated version. Like I said before, simply changing the orientation of a damper does not make it inverted; it is the build. Also, true inverted dampers are actually HEAVIER because they require more metal, and fluid. So you're wrong on that part too.

Ok. Can you provide proof(a picture will work) of an inverted damper that is not a MacPherson style strut, that is constructed as you describe? Or do you mean to say that only MacPherson style struts can be considered inverted?

 

[Hijinx]

The picture was actually on here a few pages back, but it's gone now for some reason.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I was thinking this over as have had two sets of inverted damper coilovers and the "rod" was just as the pictures show, I had forgotten more than I remembered it seems!

A true inverted damper is not the same as a damper with the body on the top vice the bottom, whomever decided on the name could of found a better word to describe it to be less confusing for those that are not familiar or like me simply forgot.

How one could forget such a thing after having a custom set of Ohlins 3-ways made, $$$$, I guess I have had to many cars and parts to recall it all

Thanks for the help to all that have sorted this out!

Now, back to those new units with the upside down rear dampers.......

 

[reracer]

The picture was actually on here a few pages back, but it's gone now for some reason.

That's an inverted strut. The rear suspension on our cars don't use struts. How about a picture of an inverted damper that is NOT a strut?

I agree with you about inverted STRUTS. However, even though an inverted STRUT is heavier overall, the parts that move are actually lighter. How do I know...because I weighed them. I helped a friend rebuild his DMS inverted STRUTS a long time ago. Inverted STRUTS are also much stiffer(as you stated) because they use the damper body to support their movement. This is only critical where the damper is forms a part of the mechanical suspension, as is the case with a STRUT.