Negative Ignition Corrections at WOT

[ray_bandz0]

I'm in the process of doing a pro tune and with the base map given I'm already seeing large negative corrections at WOT (cyl 1, -3.44 / cyl 2, -2.81 / cyl 3, -1.88 / cyl 4, -0.94). My tuner believed it was bad fuel so I switched from Costco to Chevron 91 and I'm still seeing negative corrections (cyl 1, -2.89 / cyl 2, -1.91 / cyl 3, -2.49 / cyl 4, -0.55). The 'tune revision A' file attached is the base map with Chevron gas.

My tuner then provided me with a very mellow file which reduced spark based on the data and asked me to do another log in slot 4 (bad fuel mode) and slot 1. In slot 4 I did not see any negative corrections and in slot 1 I data logged the following (cyl 1, -0.14 / cyl 2, -0.99 / cyl 3, -0.85 / cyl 4, -0.36). The 'tune revision B' file attached is the mellow map with both slots. I was still on the same tank of Chevron 91 when I data logged the mellow map. My tuner mentioned that I shouldn't be seeing any negative corrections at all with this map.

Once this tank runs dry I'm going to try 76. Before the tuning process, I updated the spark plugs from OEM to NGK 6510s that I gapped to 0.025". I'm going to take them out in a few days to see if they might have shifted during the install. I checked my exhaust heat shield, hangars and RMM but everything looks solid. I kind of doubt it would be anything that would cause external vibration as I believe negative corrections would've been seen in both slots of the mellow map.

This is my first pro tune so I'm kind of bummed that I'm running into these issues but I'd rather have things ironed out before I decide to throw in a bigger turbo down the line.

 

[XR650R]

Run your tank down to about 3 gallons, and try every brand you can, datalogging 3 gallons at a time.
Every modern car dips into negatives. You just don't want that to happen very often.

 

[ray_bandz0]

Run your tank down to about 3 gallons, and try every brand you can, datalogging 3 gallons at a time.
Every modern car dips into negatives. You just don't want that to happen very often.

Definitely will, I've never had any issues in the past with the Cobb OTS tunes so I'm hoping it's as simple as bad fuel on the pro tune.

 

[DirtyChalupa]

recheck your spark plugs like you said. make sure they're torqued to spec. check your coil packs too.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

God dammit here we go again.....Ignition corrections are NOT always a bad thing. It all comes back to how your car reacts to them and responds/recovers.Read this article by Alex @ stratified. Good luck!

https://www.stratifiedauto.com/blog...ons-in-your-high-performance-ecoboost-engine/

Who is your tuner also?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

 

[ray_bandz0]

recheck your spark plugs like you said. make sure they're torqued to spec. check your coil packs too.

When I took the spark plugs out they were still gapped to .025". I decided to replace them for peace of mind in case I nicked the electrode since I used a circular gapping tool the first time. I have photos of them after they came out, I'll try to upload them later today.

The new set of NGK 6510s were gapped to .025" using a wire tool this time. Spark plugs were torqued to 12 ft lbs. I'll look into how to verify the coil packs.

 

[ray_bandz0]

God dammit here we go again.....Ignition corrections are NOT always a bad thing. It all comes back to how your car reacts to them and responds/recovers.Read this article by Alex @ stratified. Good luck!

https://www.stratifiedauto.com/blog...ons-in-your-high-performance-ecoboost-engine/

Who is your tuner also?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

I've read that blog on this in the past. The reason this is concerning to me is that on the base tune I'm seeing multiple negative correction drops on all cylinders without much recovery. The blog points out that this could be a tune or fuel issue but I've gone through three different tanks of 91 (costco/chevron/76) all with OAR of -1. In terms of the tune, I know Randy knows his stuff so when he tells me that something doesn't seem right I want to look into it. I'm going to start data logging knock count as well, didn't have it in the initial files since my tuner didn't request those parameters to be recorded at the time. For now, I'm back on the stage 0 cobb tune and going to do a few runs to get a baseline.

 

[haste]

God dammit here we go again.....Ignition corrections are NOT always a bad thing. It all comes back to how your car reacts to them and responds/recovers.Read this article by Alex @ stratified. Good luck!

https://www.stratifiedauto.com/blog...ons-in-your-high-performance-ecoboost-engine/

Who is your tuner also?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk

Yeah, but he is seeing some pretty bad #s on his corrections. I'd be worried about seeing over -1.00 or lower every time I did a WOT pull.

OP, is your traction control kicking in when you are doing a pull? This would cause some serious corrections...

I'd be curious if you put some E85(if available) in your tank to raise your octane if the corrections eased up. Also, how many miles on the vehicle? If you are at higher mileage(60K or higher), I'd definitely recommend replacing all the coil packs just for maintenance purposes.

 

[ray_bandz0]

Yeah, but he is seeing some pretty bad #s on his corrections. I'd be worried about seeing over -1.00 or lower every time I did a WOT pull.

OP, is your traction control kicking in when you are doing a pull? This would cause some serious corrections...

I'd be curious if you put some E85(if available) in your tank to raise your octane if the corrections eased up. Also, how many miles on the vehicle? If you are at higher mileage(60K or higher), I'd definitely recommend replacing all the coil packs just for maintenance purposes.

No it shouldn't be, the traction control was fully disabled (held for 5 sec) for all the data logs shown.

Should I throw 100 octane at it instead? There's no stations in town with e85 but there's one or two with 100 octane. I can put in more than one gallon of that in the tank too.

The mileage is around 78k so its getting up there. I'll give that a shot as well.

 

[XR650R]

Yea, the traction control was fully disabled (held for 5 sec) for all the data logs shown.

Should I throw 100 octane at it instead? There's no stations in town with e85 but there's one or two with 100 octane. I can put in more than one gallon of that in the tank too.

The mileage is around 78k so its getting up there. I'll give that a shot as well.

I was having similar issues with my tune. Did the 100 octane, too. It helps to rule out possible causes of the knock. In the end, Randy got it dialed in and the car's happy and runs great.
Negative corrections are to be expected, but too much is too much. You're not running as efficiently as you could be with a little more tweaking.
I think that's the real value of a custom tune. You know it's running right for your car and your fuel.

 

[FiestaSTdude]

Was this ever resolved?

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Was this ever resolved?

Don't you just love this? No follow though! Come on Post and disappear!

 

[FiestaSTdude]

Don't you just love this? No follow though! Come on Post and disappear!

Yeah, if we as a forum help, I feel like the person with the question should tell what did and didn't work. That way, it's forever documented for future people with similar issues.
Now I need to make sure I've done that with my threads lol

 

[Saponetta]

Yeah, if we as a forum help, I feel like the person with the question should tell what did and didn't work. That way, it's forever documented for future people with similar issues.
Now I need to make sure I've done that with my threads lol

Why would the poster bother when he got arrogant, unfriendly, and completely incorrect posts from some of the most "senior" members?*

 

[XR650R]

Why would the poster bother when he got arrogant, unfriendly, and completely incorrect posts from some of the most "senior" members?*

Such as?

 

[Raziel510]

What happened @ray_bandz0 ? I was going to say to check your motor mounts. One or all may need replacement?

 

[ray_bandz0]

What happened @ray_bandz0 ? I was going to say to check your motor mounts. One or all may need replacement?

The negative corrections were never resolved on the 91 octane protune due to the expiration of the tuning period. Also, I had new Vibratechnics psmm and transmission mounts installed less than six months before this issue and the mountune RMM was less than a year old. I'm on AWR 70a mounts all around now though.

No issues or negative corrections with the e30 tune, used it at about 6 autocross events and it ripped!! I mostly use the 91 tune for daily use and I ended up just flashing a Cobb Stage 2 file for that reason. No negative corrections on that file.

I kind of wonder if ruthenium plugs gapped the same would have helped reduce those corrections. I read a post from Adam Brunson saying that he was able to pull more timing with ruthenium on 91 (or piss water, his words not mine lol) versus iridium which was what I had.

 

[Raziel510]

Yeah my negative corrections were due to bad fuel (93 octane) in my area. Now I'm on E30 tune and I only get negative corrections (less than -1.0) when my plugs are close to being changed out.