My official RaceChip thread -

[TalkToTheFiST]

Not sure if it was directed at you as he was just telling a tale from a while ago in this forum.

Jeff's been one of the few longtime members who's still around despite pretty much finishing his build a while ago, and produced a good bit of helpful content you may see as you scour the forums.

I think he and a lot of other posters are just upset because some have been modding cars for a while and are giving advice regarding said race chips, as the technology has been around and while no one has bought a chip for this car specifically, they have had similar experience on other platforms. In the end like others have said it's your money and you can do with it what you wish, but some don't want to keep repeating the same info only to fall on deaf ears.

I can understand the frustration from both sides and in the end wish you luck in your modding endeavors.

Well i have and still do appreciate his input when it's appropriate and about the actual subject. When he just lobs insults, passive aggressively mind you, well im not the type to just take shots. He definitely meant it otherwise why bring up that story here? His words were pretty clear -

"His name became synonymous with anyone who expressed that sort of presence."

He's saying that "presence" is with me. Funny bc at one point i was looking at other tuners like SCT and such and people insisted COBBs the way to go and i have taken that to heart and when i get one, it will be an AP. But im the guy who supposedly argues with everything?

The truth is he's upset bc somebody he sees as beneath him isn't caving and following his every whim. Like i said to him if anybody here had actually used this item on a FIST, or hell on any car, their "advice" wouldn't be advice, it would be first hand experience. Nobody here has that, so im the guy willing to try.

I got 18k miles on my warranty, i feel im in a good place to try this out. And thank you for not being negative, it doesn't bother me (im got my big boy britches on) but it's not really beneficial to the discussion when people go ape$%@#.

 

[koozy]

Lol


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[FJ16]

The truth is he's upset bc somebody he sees as beneath him isn't caving and following his every whim.

You might want to hop off that high horse before your racechip burns it up.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

You might want to hop off that high horse before your racechip burns it up.

Thanks for the "advice" but im starting to like this contrarian thing. You know what's going to be funny? If this chip works out and does even close to what they claim and there are absolutely no thrown rods or burned rings, there's gonna be a few guys around here with egg on their face.

 

[jeff]

Well i have and still do appreciate his input when it's appropriate and about the actual subject. When he just lobs insults, passive aggressively mind you, well im not the type to just take shots. He definitely meant it otherwise why bring up that story here? His words were pretty clear -

"His name became synonymous with anyone who expressed that sort of presence."

He's saying that "presence" is with me. Funny bc at one point i was looking at other tuners like SCT and such and people insisted COBBs the way to go and i have taken that to heart and when i get one, it will be an AP. But im the guy who supposedly argues with everything?

The truth is he's upset bc somebody he sees as beneath him isn't caving and following his every whim. Like i said to him if anybody here had actually used this item on a FIST, or hell on any car, their "advice" wouldn't be advice, it would be first hand experience. Nobody here has that, so im the guy willing to try.

I got 18k miles on my warranty, i feel im in a good place to try this out. And thank you for not being negative, it doesn't bother me (im got my big boy britches on) but it's not really beneficial to the discussion when people go ape$%@#.

You’re correct about everything here except Im not upset because you aren’t caving and I don't think you’re beneath me. The truth is this is all silliness and fun for me after a long day of work.

Like I said it’s frustrating as I’ve probably given an hour of my life in your threads sharing things that will help you based on proven objective data and years of research and you disregard it based on some internet reviews of a garbage product.

No hard feelings, this is the internet dude, you come on here touting your uninformed views that go contrary to years of collective experience and hard data, you’re gonna get some resistance.

Later.

 

[jeff]

Not sure if it was directed at you as he was just telling a tale from a while ago in this forum.

Jeff's been one of the few longtime members who's still around despite pretty much finishing his build a while ago, and produced a good bit of helpful content you may see as you scour the forums.

I think he and a lot of other posters are just upset because some have been modding cars for a while and are giving advice regarding said race chips, as the technology has been around and while no one has bought a chip for this car specifically, they have had similar experience on other platforms. In the end like others have said it's your money and you can do with it what you wish, but some don't want to keep repeating the same info only to fall on deaf ears.

I can understand the frustration from both sides and in the end wish you luck in your modding endeavors.

Well said and thank you for the kind words.

The truth is I am opinionated and sometimes I cross the line, I readily acknowledge that. But I don’t think I’m better than anyone, I am sincerely trying to help.

Back a year or so ago I was asked to be a moderator of this forum and while this was a great honor I declined. I declined because I have an extremely low tolerance for BS, I am an enthusiast first and want to be in the trenches rather than on the sidelines calling shots. I’ve spent hundreds of hours researching every modification I did to my car and spent hundreds more under the car turning wrenches myself on almost every single part I’ve put on.

I’m not on a high horse here, I sincerely and truly want to help this guy and it comes from a studied and informed place. But like you said it’s frustrating and feels like a waste of time at this point.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

One thing of note - in the fiat abarth world, piggybacks were the rule for a long time because the encryption on the Ecus was absurdly good. Once tunes became available everyone jumped ship on their piggybacks because piggybacks were kinda inconsistent and laggy vs tunes that were pretty instantaneous. They could pull similar numbers on a dyno but there was a big difference in feel. You would be driving, come around a corner and hit the gas and there’d be a moment of latency as the ecu tried to decide what to do, then power would hit all at once. Next corner? No lag, or more lag, or hesitation. Dyno numbers (especially *extremely* optimistic ones) aren’t the whole story. Drivability is a huge factor as well, and is usually where piggybacks fall short, potential reliability issues aside.

 

[jeffreylyon]

[




So first you insult me with chicken and meatballs in this comparison, then you imply im arguing incessantly with everybody offering advice? Guess what Mr Know it all, if you had used this item yourself on your FIST and actually had something to say that was factual, i might listen to you.

Instead you end up butt hurt bc somebody new doesn't take your every word of advice like the gospel. I've been into photography for nearly a decade as a high level enthusiast, been a member of a camera forum for 8 years and we have plenty of people like you too. People who think they know everything about everything just bc they have a little info about something.

You've never used a RaceChip on any car let alone a FIST so how does your experience with APs give me anything real to work with? It doesn't. Feel free to take a hike out of this thread and if the chip works like i expect and im offering my experiences with it in the future, feel free to pass up those threads too.

I've been polite this entire time and gave you time to take the high road and return the favor. Whatever dude, go fly a kite. To the rest of the people who agree or disagree with my choices and have been cordial i appreciate your input and hope to discuss more with you in the future.

Jumping back in for a quick note. There have been other new members to this community that think that they have some sort of ownership over threads that they have started and, when the thread goes in a direction they aren't fond of, tell others to leave the thread. That's not how it works, here: you may have started this thread but it is ours. @jeff and others are trying to help you understand where you're mistaken in respect to the RC and how it works. If you're taking offense to that, perhaps you're in the wrong place. There are *many* people on this forum with *much* more experience than you with tuning and the FiST platform telling you of their experiences and trying to help you understand where you're erring in the hope that you'll "see the light." If you're not interested in that and just want people to listen to you state your expectations and observations, you've come to the wrong place, and I'm not talking just about this community, I'm speaking of the Internet in general.

 

[HBEcoBeaST]

I'm kind of bummed I took the time to answer all the OPs questions about how the Chip's work, why exactly they don't make the same power, the difference between these and an AP etc. Only to have him not even acknowledge the posts. It's not like I was answering specific questions he was asking - oh wait, I was.

I'm not trying to convince him to change his mind, but its a little disrespectful to ask questions then ignore the answers because they weren't what you wanted to hear.

If it weren't for the lack of knowledge on how these things work I'd swear he was selling these RaceChips since he can't seem to acknowledge any of the potential negatives or even attempt to understand the difference between a chip and a re flash.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

I'm kind of bummed I took the time to answer all the OPs questions about how the Chip's work, why exactly they don't make the same power, the difference between these and an AP etc. Only to have him not even acknowledge the posts. It's not like I was answering specific questions he was asking - oh wait, I was.

I'm not trying to convince him to change his mind, but its a little disrespectful to ask questions then ignore the answers because they weren't what you wanted to hear.

If it weren't for the lack of knowledge on how these things work I'd swear he was selling these RaceChips since he can't seem to acknowledge any of the potential negatives or even attempt to understand the difference between a chip and a re flash.

Eh, we were all young once. I don't imagine my younger self being easily swayed once my mind had been made up. Evidence based decision making is a learned skill like any other.

I wish OP the best - I hope it works out for him and we're wrong about the race chip. I think best-case scenario he picks up some power delivered in a "harsh" manner making it feel faster than it really is. I can't argue if it makes him happy - I spent a ton of money trying to make my FiST have the same "character" as my Abarth, which amounted to roughing up the smooth edges to give it a gnarly little personality.

OP, do as you will, document for posterity's sake, and if it goes south you still have a community here to support you so long as you take a reasonably respectful approach. At least acknowledge that there are people that have experience you may not. Nobody is warning you off because they want you to be wrong, they're warning you off because they care about you and your car surviving. At the end of the day, do real research, don't make decisions based on marketing, and your upgrade path should add the safety layers (intercooler) *before* you add power. There's no point to putting on a motorcycle helmet after you've already crashed.

 

[Ford ST]

I think it's time we all just walk away from this thread and let It go. I even spent the time to look at the website they give very little information. He doesn't want to listen that's his choice, but every time we respond it's just going to be another reply of nonsense.
@jeff has one of the best builds on this site in my opinion. He knows his stuff.
Good luck to you you're going to need it. Stubbornness and hardheadedness normally ends up with whoops I should have listened.
Not trying to be rude or disrespect you.
A accessport just popped up today $400 including shipping. Patience is a virtue.
I have done my mods much more slowly than I had anticipated. I have a good reason for doing so I like to research as much as I can before I spend my money, or waste my time installing a product.

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[LargeRubberFist]

I frequently read and search for information on forums, you're not just giving one person advice when you respond to their inquiries but all the people who come after them.

You taking the time to explain things is incredibly valuable to the lurkers and people who find the thread 3 years later from a Google search.

Don't get discouraged from sharing information because the person you're addressing may not seem to listen or understand, countless others do.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

I frequently read and search for information on forums, you're not just giving one person advice when you respond to their inquiries but all the people who come after them.

You taking the time to explain things is incredibly valuable to the lurkers and people who find the thread 3 years later from a Google search.

Don't get discouraged from sharing information because the person you're addressing may not seem to listen or understand, countless others do.

Thats why when you figure out how to solve your problem you should always go back and reply to threads with the solution lol. There's nothing worse than seeing a thread, reading through it, thinking "That's my problem, the solution is just around the corner!" only to get to the end and just see "I fixed it, all good now". HOW DID YOU FIX IT???

 

[Spork1569]

I frequently read and search for information on forums, you're not just giving one person advice when you respond to their inquiries but all the people who come after them.

You taking the time to explain things is incredibly valuable to the lurkers and people who find the thread 3 years later from a Google search.

Don't get discouraged from sharing information because the person you're addressing may not seem to listen or understand, countless others do.

This is very true, can't count the amount of times I had a problem pop up that I thought applied only to me, only to find an old forum thread from ages ago about said topic.

 

[Dpro]

Thanks for the "advice" but im starting to like this contrarian thing. You know what's going to be funny? If this chip works out and does even close to what they claim and there are absolutely no thrown rods or burned rings, there's gonna be a few guys around here with egg on their face.

Its not us VS you. We are actually trying to help. None of us are angry in my opinion. We just don’t want to see people make mistakes that may cost them money. I am not angry with you. A little respect for what people are telling you here could go a long way though.
I may disagree with someone and have an opposing opinion but if they have been around longer, have more experience I try to show them respect.
The internet is a funny place we get into anonymous discussions with people we have not seen face to face its easy to get aggressive. I have been guilty of it and then I meet people in person at meets or stuff like Octane Academy and its like wow he is really a cool guy.
I suggest you get yourself away from a you vs us mindset. We are not against you we are here to help and like I said before if we did not care we would not post. Oh and ya I had pretty much given up trying to help because you were not listening. A little acknowledgement goes a long way. Good luck hope it works for you feel it won”t thats just how I see it. We can agree to disagree.

 

[MagnetiseST]

So you're telling me they don't use actual temp sensors in these engines, that the temp is guessed by the ECU?

Yes. @HBEcoBeaST is right. Cylinder head temp sensor guesses the oil temp. Coolant temp is a calculation of the actual coolant sensor and cylinder head temp. The MAF, MAP, and Charge Air Temp Sensor all contribute to the intake & charge air temp readings. Boost pressure solenoid (which is actually the WGA solenoid and you really don't want to mess with that), reads boost pressure, opens /closes the WG and bleeds back to the intake to manage all that.

This isn't the 90s where every sensor has a separate circuit, I had a HUGE learning curve coming to these cars from my 90s Hondas. You can't just trick sensors into doing what you want, they have to be programmed to do what you want them to. If you try to trick them there is a margin of error, and that margin of error could be the difference between the ECM shutting the wastegate (bye bye turbo), or keeping it wide open (no boost). Its such huge variable and everyone in this thread is pointing you (OP) against it. By all means do what you want to do with your car, just understand that this isn't a simple circuited car. The ECM has a MASSIVE amound of R&D put into it by Ford, and its extremely complex, which is why its best to use something that can communicate directly with the ECM and tell it to re-write its strategy to do what you want it to.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Yes. @HBEcoBeaST is right. Cylinder head temp sensor guesses the oil temp. Coolant temp is a calculation of the actual coolant sensor and cylinder head temp. The MAF, MAP, and Charge Air Temp Sensor all contribute to the intake & charge air temp readings. Boost pressure solenoid (which is actually the WGA solenoid and you really don't want to mess with that), reads boost pressure, opens /closes the WG and bleeds back to the intake to manage all that.

This isn't the 90s where every sensor has a separate circuit, I had a HUGE learning curve coming to these cars from my 90s Hondas. You can't just trick sensors into doing what you want, they have to be programmed to do what you want them to. If you try to trick them there is a margin of error, and that margin of error could be the difference between the ECM shutting the wastegate (bye bye turbo), or keeping it wide open (no boost). Its such huge variable and everyone in this thread is pointing you (OP) against it. By all means do what you want to do with your car, just understand that this isn't a simple circuited car. The ECM has a MASSIVE amound of R&D put into it by Ford, and its extremely complex, which is why its best to use something that can communicate directly with the ECM and tell it to re-write its strategy to do what you want it to.

Well i plan on getting an AP, my FMIC will be here in a few months tops, so the AP after that, probably not by christmas but perhaps in the first month or two of 2020 as long as i can find one. If i can't find one for a good price used by the beginning of spring i will just buy one at $550 new. This means maybe 6mo of driving, city driving and not track days or drag runs, and in the coldest half of the year. Once i get the AP i'll be able to run a stage 2 tune and will be able to get that boost and other benefits, without the chip.

I have been searching daily since i first found the RaceChip online and can't find anybody reporting any mechanical issues due to using it. One video i found on TY had several people in the comments who used it, one who said he used the GTX version (the highest boost model with a claimed 50% more HP/TQ than my S model) and was close to 100k with it installed, no issues.

So i have the weakest chip model, and running in the coldest months of the year in the midwest where we have very low temps outside, and will likely be replacing the chip with a traditional tune by spring. And i don't actually race, in 8mo of owning my car (through the hot midwest summer) i don't think i have ever experienced heat soak, no crazy drops in power. I just don't see how temps will be an issue for me with this chip for the time i will be using it.

 

[jeff]

Out of curiosity I watched their Fiesta ST video on youTube. It's 2 young guys sporting manbuns doing a sales pitch. Nothing against manbuns, but the vibe is much less R&D enthusiast science and much more slick promotion. It's not our car, it's the 1.5 ST they sell overseas, but it was the closest thing I could find.

Among other things that are disturbing is the claim (in this case for our US SPEC cars, I specified my car on the screenshot below, not because I am a potential customer I might add but so that I can help others 3 years from now...) that you get 250hp (that's +20%). Meanwhile, Cobb, a well-respected company that's been around for a long time and has won awards for everything, claims an honest +2% hp increase for their stage 1 tune, the closest equivalent of the RaceChip "tune only no hardware" upgrade.

Cobb: +2%...well respected, makes tunes for 5 car makes...
RaceChip: +20%...new to the game, makes tunes for 31 car makes...

To restate, having been a semi-expert of this car for 5 years now, we all know that even with all the hardware bolt-ons and a maximized custom tune you cannot surpass 220hp on pump gas in this car, it is impossible, end of story. To me, just the dishonesty and hype going on here makes me want to run away from this product as fast as possible.

Found a reddit conversation from about a week ago as well...

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

Out of curiosity I watched their Fiesta ST video on youTube. It's 2 young guys sporting manbuns doing a sales pitch. Nothing against manbuns, but the vibe is much less R&D enthusiast science and much more slick promotion. It's not our car, it's the 1.5 ST they sell overseas, but it was the closest thing I could find.

Among other things that are disturbing is the claim (in this case for our US SPEC cars, I specified my car on the screenshot below, not because I am a potential customer I might add but so that I can help others 3 years from now...) that you get 250hp (that's +20%). Meanwhile, Cobb, a well-respected company that's been around for a long time and has won awards for everything, claims an honest +2% hp increase for their stage 1 tune, the closest equivalent of the RaceChip "tune only no hardware" upgrade.

Cobb: +2%...well respected, makes tunes for 5 car makes...
RaceChip: +20%...new to the game, makes tunes for 31 car makes...

To restate, having been a semi-expert of this car for 5 years now, we all know that even with all the hardware bolt-ons and a maximized custom tune you cannot surpass 220hp on pump gas in this car, it is impossible, end of story. To me, just the dishonesty and hype going on here makes me want to run away from this product as fast as possible.

Found a reddit conversation from about a week ago as well...

So some random guys say it "looks" like a worse version of AP? It "sounds" like a scam? Very scientific analysis there from complete strangers. They are pulling a JEFF (get it?). Funny the last guy is named Rennsport, wasn't there a competitor chip made for a Porsche i think called RennChip? Yep there was, yet this guy calls RaceChip a scam... By the way the Rennchip was supposed to work well too, i've seen some dyno run results for that too.

So lets cover one more point since guys like MBAH2017 just might not be reliable by word, how about the dynos showing these chips in action? HERES ONE from a channel with a whopping 312 subs, you know the exact kind of channel a scam would sponsor to get their name out. You know, such a massive number of subs is exactly what they are looking for when trying to pull off a scam.

And what does this guy say? Tested a Camaro 2.0T and dynod it. 280hp/273tq stock, vs chipped 310hp/305tq. I asked this before, are all these people lying? Are they somehow mucking up the tests bc they don't know how to operate a dyno? You are a skeptic who hasn't tried this chip and i get that, im naturally a skeptic, but this guy on the video is testing the chip on a dyno and getting a 30whp gain. That doesn't sound like a scam at all.

Im less interested in the exact numbers and more interested in if it actually works and adds considerable power. You seem to feel ok bashing a product you have never used while dozens of dyno run videos say otherwise. Either they are all lying, or a self proclaimed FIST semi pro is wrong. I refer to occam's razor, which is the more likely (ie simplest) scenario? A scam conspiracy with dozens of first hand accounts all lying? Or a guy who is wrong about a product he's never used?

Im going with door number 2. Doesn't it seem odd that everybody who is claiming it's fake or a scam or impossible are people who haven't actually used them? Im curious to what will happen if i get my chip and it adds considerable power to my car. Without a dyno how will people like you react? If i did get a duno run and it shows something like a 20whp gain, then what?

You and a few others have your mind made up that his can't be possible, so any outcome where it's true just means you have to fit the pieces somehow. You have to look for an explanation to why it's fake, no matter how far reaching. Im neutral, if it's fake i will say so, if i makes considerably more power i will say so. I literally have nothing at stake here, not even my money. Lets see what happens.

 

[MagnetiseST]

Im less interested in the exact numbers and more interested in if it actually works and adds considerable power.

This is a contradiction because its the same thing. You'd have to know exact numbers to see if it works or adds any considerable horsepower.

You seem to feel ok bashing a product you have never used while dozens of dyno run videos say otherwise. Either they are all lying, or a self proclaimed FIST semi pro is wrong. I refer to occam's razor, which is the more likely (ie simplest) scenario? A scam conspiracy with dozens of first hand accounts all lying? Or a guy who is wrong about a product he's never used?

Im going with door number 2. Doesn't it seem odd that everybody who is claiming it's fake or a scam or impossible are people who haven't actually used them? Im curious to what will happen if i get my chip and it adds considerable power to my car. Without a dyno how will people like you react? If i did get a duno run and it shows something like a 20whp gain, then what?

You and a few others have your mind made up that his can't be possible, so any outcome where it's true just means you have to fit the pieces somehow. You have to look for an explanation to why it's fake, no matter how far reaching. Im neutral, if it's fake i will say so, if i makes considerably more power i will say so. I literally have nothing at stake here, not even my money. Lets see what happens.

1. No its not odd, they are just advocating for tried and true methods. People don't use them because, for a small amount more, you can get an accessport. I remember when I had my first STI, I didn't want to spend the money on an AP and I went with an "open source" tune. It was fine for daily driving, but even it was an actual tune, just didnt have the neat handheld. However I eventually bought an AP for a myriad of reasons besides ease of access. All anyone is saying in this thread is that for a SMALL amount more of money you can get an AP, and get something that is known to work. If an AP was 2-300 more than this thing... sure by all means try it. Still, try it, but know its risky.

2. Something like this can never make the numbers they advertise. Its like the guys that roll up in their 02 eclipse that say their eBay intake and exhaust added 40hp because the ad on ebay said so. I know you don't care about dyno results, but thats the only way to prove something, scientific data and results. Your butt dyno might tell you there is a gain, but word of mouth often isn't enough, and thats what their sales pitch is about, they are trying to use word of mouth instead of facts to sell their product. Dress it up, make it sound great, like those electric turbo fans that sell on ebay. It sounds great, but may not be great in application.

Try it, find out.