MTC/Cobb/Whoosh/Depo/Pwnall off-branded?

[Ford ST]

No need to get up set. Not everybody is a fan of the whole discount everything. The vendors like Ron, are the reason why we have parts available for our cars not some guy selling some Chinese eBay parts overseas who has no invested interest.

 

[danbfree]

No need to get up set. Not everybody is a fan of the whole discount everything. The vendors like Ron, are the reason why we have parts available for our cars not some guy selling some Chinese eBay parts overseas who has no invested interest.

I get what you are saying, and I can see some frustration happening if you are a vendor. But he should have just stayed out of the thread or tried to be helpful in explaining the differences while being more professional, like the other vendor, Tim Pwnall, was and he has earned my business because of that... We all have rough days but it seems there is pattern of unprofessional posts with Ron that is concerning, but I'm just going to drop it. I apologized early on if I offended anyone with how cheap I am, I know I have to stop myself from commenting sometimes when I am frustrated at the lack of facts but know it wouldn't help to come in guns blazing. I was just hoping for better from Ron, he is indeed a great vendor overall by offering us the parts we want at decent prices, hopefully he can chill with the angry posts.

 

[ron@whoosh]

not snotty, just facts.
I was not addressing my customer base. Only 2 people posting inaccurate info here

No, pretty much all snotty and partial facts, and are enthusiasts your customer base or not? Many of us are here to learn and grow and not be pissed on by a vendor.[/QUOTE]

you are not a customer of mine sir and are not entitled to speak for everyone
I was speaking to you and one other

If you saw me right now, or actually spoke to me you'd know I am chill
Just because I finally said something about this horrific wretched thread doesn't mean I'm angry

 

[redmoe]

In most cases on these Internet forums what people call “facts” are merely opinion as there is very rarely qualifying evidence presented. Just looking at an image with dimensions is not enough data to draw an accurate conclusion. Someone either needs to get in direct contact with the manufacturer and see if they will divulge their material selection and assembly methods (not likely) or better yet purchase the items in question, test and disassemble them to truly identify what you are dealing with.

In the end folks will buy what their budget and confidence in the product allows. We need to be careful about distribution of information that is not vetted as is adds to the confusion that newcomers to the platform may experience.

 

[danbfree]

No, pretty much all snotty and partial facts, and are enthusiasts your customer base or not? Many of us are here to learn and grow and not be pissed on by a vendor.

you are not a customer of mine sir and are not entitled to speak for everyone
I was speaking to you and one other

If you saw me right now, or actually spoke to me you'd know I am chill
Just because I finally said something about this horrific wretched thread doesn't mean I'm angry[/QUOTE]

C'mon Ron, then simply offer your expertise in correcting facts then, no one is perfect including you. Depo racing absolutely is also made in China.... and with you 3 guys all offering the same solid unit for nearly the same price, customer service and professionalism is what will set you apart and earn my business. I apologize if I made some inaccurate assumptions that annoyed you, and unlike some people I'm happy to be corrected, give credit where due and learn from my errors... I'm still probably going to be buying stuff from you, I like people who aren't afraid to stand up to false facts, I just don't agree how you handled it in this case. Take care man.

 

[ron@whoosh]

In most cases on these Internet forums what people call “facts” are merely opinion as there is very rarely qualifying evidence presented. Just looking at an image with dimensions is not enough data to draw an accurate conclusion. Someone either needs to get in direct contact with the manufacturer and see if they will divulge their material selection and assembly methods (not likely) or better yet purchase the items in question, test and disassemble them to truly identify what you are dealing with.

In the end folks will buy what their budget and confidence in the product allows. We need to be careful about distribution of information that is not vetted as is adds to the confusion that newcomers to the platform may experience.

very true
I could in fact explain where a lot of things are made that would upset many people, how they are made, and the ways companies bypass the system to say certain things as to where they are manufactured. There aren't any vendors here explaining anything really.
I've been in this industry for a long while and have seen it all, literally. I'm the closest thing many will find to open book and truth with this stuff.
I normally keep my comments to myself and after this, I'll just sit back and watch it burn I guess. Just post in my section, then leave. I'm not here to argue with anyone, have no interest in it and no time for it.

 

[danbfree]

In most cases on these Internet forums what people call “facts” are merely opinion as there is very rarely qualifying evidence presented. Just looking at an image with dimensions is not enough data to draw an accurate conclusion. Someone either needs to get in direct contact with the manufacturer and see if they will divulge their material selection and assembly methods (not likely) or better yet purchase the items in question, test and disassemble them to truly identify what you are dealing with.

In the end folks will buy what their budget and confidence in the product allows. We need to be careful about distribution of information that is not vetted as is adds to the confusion that newcomers to the platform may experience.

Very good point, we should feel free to brainstorm and discuss but need to be clear when we don't know something as fact that we state it's just an educated guess instead of assuming and speaking as fact. Thanks for your knowledge and advice in all these threads man, you've been an invaluable resource!

 

[ron@whoosh]

you are not a customer of mine sir and are not entitled to speak for everyone
I was speaking to you and one other

If you saw me right now, or actually spoke to me you'd know I am chill
Just because I finally said something about this horrific wretched thread doesn't mean I'm angry

C'mon Ron, then simply offer your expertise in correcting facts then, no one is perfect including you. Depo racing absolutely is also made in China.... and with you 3 guys all offering the same solid unit for nearly the same price, customer service and professionalism is what will set you apart and earn my business. I apologize if I made some inaccurate assumptions that annoyed you, and unlike some people I'm happy to be corrected, give credit where due and learn from my errors... I'm still probably going to be buying stuff from you, I like people who aren't afraid to stand up to false facts, I just don't agree how you handled it in this case. Take care man.[/QUOTE]

Dan,
I have no personal issues with you
The constant comments about these things sometimes bother me. There are comparisons to ATP/Garrett and other things that simply are not true
Why other people have not said anything is beyond me, maybe they don't read your threads? Not sure....

Doesn't matter
This thread has sucked the life out of me long enough. The responses and comments are proof that it really isn't my place to say anything. I'll just sit back and watch
Tons of new parts coming though...maybe someday you will make a purchase. If so, I'll send you something special in the box

 

[danbfree]

C'mon Ron, then simply offer your expertise in correcting facts then, no one is perfect including you. Depo racing absolutely is also made in China.... and with you 3 guys all offering the same solid unit for nearly the same price, customer service and professionalism is what will set you apart and earn my business. I apologize if I made some inaccurate assumptions that annoyed you, and unlike some people I'm happy to be corrected, give credit where due and learn from my errors... I'm still probably going to be buying stuff from you, I like people who aren't afraid to stand up to false facts, I just don't agree how you handled it in this case. Take care man.

Dan,
I have no personal issues with you
The constant comments about these things sometimes bother me. There are comparisons to ATP/Garrett and other things that simply are not true
Why other people have not said anything is beyond me, maybe they don't read your threads? Not sure....

Doesn't matter
This thread has sucked the life out of me long enough. The responses and comments are proof that it really isn't my place to say anything. I'll just sit back and watch
Tons of new parts coming though...maybe someday you will make a purchase. If so, I'll send you something special in the box[/QUOTE]

I corrected the first post, the one you guys sell is very much larger, actual direct fit and better than the cheap crap I initially brought up, I absolutely understand your frustration... Really, I was just trying to learn more about the quality and fitment of different options and although it got a little rough, you made your point and glad you did! I'll continue to speak positive of you in general on the FB groups and will almost certainly be buying some items from you.

 

[KKaWing]

my 2c...

Most brands who uses Chinese manufacturing have long since learnt how to protect their IP. Most of the stuff you find on Aliexpress that mimic other products tend to be one of a few things. Rejects from QA used to be a big one until recently. "Mountain villa factory" specials, or basically straight up knock off copies (most often badly). Stuff that is "mistakenly" labeled to seem like something else. Accurate product descriptions are not really a thing over here, totally buyer beware.

For the Mishi clone, if you look through their original testing / development thread, they did try a bar and plate cooler of that size. Is it the same one? I don't know. Their testing did show significant pressure drop for two of the bar and plates they tested. For the Cobb clone, stick a bore scope and compare the fins between the branded one and the unbranded ones. They are most definitely not Garrett cores. Most would not want to copy Garrett because of their fin design, way too high cost to manufacture. If they did, they would most likely use it as a selling point. "Garrett style" or "stagger fin" or "high density fin" for example.

I have no issue with the cheap stuff, if you want to run something that didn't have much R&D, that's fine, just call it what it is. The really good stuff is usually well protected, there aren't really any "hidden gems for cheap".

TL;DR: cheap Chinese copies are exactly that, buyer beware.

 

[danbfree]

my 2c...

Most brands who uses Chinese manufacturing have long since learnt how to protect their IP. Most of the stuff you find on Aliexpress that mimic other products tend to be one of a few things. Rejects from QA used to be a big one until recently. "Mountain villa factory" specials, or basically straight up knock off copies (most often badly). Stuff that is "mistakenly" labeled to seem like something else. Accurate product descriptions are not really a thing over here, totally buyer beware.

For the Mishi clone, if you look through their original testing / development thread, they did try a bar and plate cooler of that size. Is it the same one? I don't know. Their testing did show significant pressure drop for two of the bar and plates they tested. For the Cobb clone, stick a bore scope and compare the fins between the branded one and the unbranded ones. They are most definitely not Garrett cores. Most would not want to copy Garrett because of their fin design, way too high cost to manufacture. If they did, they would most likely use it as a selling point. "Garrett style" or "stagger fin" or "high density fin" for example.

I have no issue with the cheap stuff, if you want to run something that didn't have much R&D, that's fine, just call it what it is. The really good stuff is usually well protected, there aren't really any "hidden gems for cheap".

TL;DR: cheap Chinese copies are exactly that, buyer beware.

This is GREAT feedback, thank you! So to clarify, the "Cobb clone" is the 2nd aluminum finish one? They do say it is bar and plate, which cools efficiently but at the expense of air flow to the radiator, but that's what most use, right?

 

[CGLENN27]

Yeah, fairly small, basically an off-brand J-line, they even call it a J-line in the description, heh... but that's why for $20 more I was looking at the Garret core one on AliExpress that's a copy of the ATP, although for $199 shipped this one is better than stock at least and includes pretty fast delivery considering it's coming from China, would be OK for someone with no intentions of going above stock turbo.

I only say a copy of the mishimoto one is because of the shroud pieces included and even uses the same picture mishimoto uses installed on the vehicle.

 

[XanRules]

Its in no way the same core as ATP. That china made one looks very very cheap. Personally if i was the OP i would pass and either shop the used market on the site or go with one of the vendors on the site.

Sorry, I meant same design/core size. Your implication is correct, we have no way to tell whether or not these products are literally identical as none of us have done a physical, in person, side-by-side comparison, and many would rather not take the risk.

 

[CGLENN27]

Sorry, I meant same design/core size. Your implication is correct, we have no way to tell whether or not these products are literally identical as none of us have done a physical, in person, side-by-side comparison, and many would rather not take the risk.

yeah man I'm with you there. Personally I wouldn't take the risk on these intercoolers just because the price point isn't too far off some of good quality ones offered at whoosh, depo, ect. that we all know fit, work very well, and have a face behind the name and have support. I don't know how comfortable I'd feel putting in a cheap Chinese intercooler that could possible have foreign material (metal shavings for example) being introduced into the combustion chamber.

 

[danbfree]

I only say a copy of the mishimoto one is because of the shroud pieces included and even uses the same picture mishimoto uses installed on the vehicle.

Actually, you're right, same exact dimensions of the Mishimoto that sells for $624 on their web site... For $199 shipped it is totally fine for someone on a stock turbo who has no intentions of upgrading and doesn't really race in hot weather. I'm just going to go with the Depo/Whoosh/Pwnall that is an identical known solid import product.

 

[danbfree]

yeah man I'm with you there. Personally I wouldn't take the risk on these intercoolers just because the price point isn't too far off some of good quality ones offered at whoosh, depo, ect. that we all know fit, work very well, and have a face behind the name and have support. I don't know how comfortable I'd feel putting in a cheap Chinese intercooler that could possible have foreign material (metal shavings for example) being introduced into the combustion chamber.

I don't see how these are cheap and poor quality, the sellers have an excellent feedback reputation, and the Whoosh/Depo/Pwnall are all Chinese too... BUT, one I posted has 3" inlet/outlet so would need different hoses or an adapter that's a possible new source of leaks and the black one/Mishimoto clone on eBay is definitely smaller than the Whoosh/Depo/Pwnall anyway, but I still think is a good choice for it's price.

 

[XanRules]

I don't see how these are cheap and poor quality, the sellers have an excellent feedback reputation, and the Whoosh/Depo/Pwnall are all Chinese too... BUT, one I posted has 3" inlet/outlet so would need different hoses or an adapter that's a possible new source of leaks and the black one/Mishimoto clone on eBay is definitely smaller than the Whoosh/Depo/Pwnall anyway, but I still think is a good choice for it's price.

Is it? I was under the impression that the J-Line was slightly larger than the Cobb (18% according to this thread - https://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/4935-Intercooler-dimensions) and that the core size was the same on that trio of intercoolers as it is on the Cobb. Endtank design perhaps?

 

[danbfree]

Is it? I was under the impression that the J-Line was slightly larger than the Cobb (18% according to this thread - https://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/4935-Intercooler-dimensions) and that the core size was the same on that trio of intercoolers as it is on the Cobb. Endtank design perhaps?

J-line is actually huge and is one of the best performing IC's for our car but require adapters and a mounting bracket, but still for around $400 total, if you don't mind the slightly tougher install, they are monsters... the off-branded ones are of a Mishimoto prototype it looks like, or one they sold under another "line"... but someone posted in the "What did you do to your Fiesta ST today" thread who bought that $199 eBay IC and it's actually very nice, I'm actually going to consider it next spring if it's still around.

 

[XanRules]

J-line is actually huge and is one of the best performing IC's for our car but require adapters and a mounting bracket, but still for around $400 total, if you don't mind the slightly tougher install, they are monsters... the off-branded ones are of a Mishimoto prototype it looks like, or one they sold under another "line"... but someone posted in the "What did you do to your Fiesta ST today" thread who bought that $199 eBay IC and it's actually very nice, I'm actually going to consider it next spring if it's still around.

Gotcha, so those cheapy J-Lines on the bay are a smaller size than the Mishi J-Line?

 

[danbfree]

Gotcha, so those cheapy J-Lines on the bay are a smaller size than the Mishi J-Line?

I am pretty sure they mention the J line in the product description as the next size up to get if you have more than 325 HP, not as a description of the one for sale... I hope it's OK for discussion purposes to post a thread from the old dead forum, but found this interesting! https://www.fiestast.net/threads/fiesta-st-available-intercoolers-tech-thread.1739/

If you scroll down to the 2nd set of IC's listed, the very last one is a Mishimoto with *identical* core size to the eBay one. Edit: OK, here it is, the $199 eBay special is an exact clone of THIS Mishimoto, but bar and plate vs. the Mishimoto tube and fin... it's one that Mishimoto spent a lot to develop (Their "Beat the heat R&D" thread) and charged a lot for it but then people quit buying them once they realized they could get a bigger one for less.

Mishimoto Fiesta ST IC
Core Dimensions:
28.8" x 4.92" x 2.56"
Core Volume:
362.74 in

Stock is 288 in core volume, so for $199, I think it's perfect for a stock turbo car or for mild weather up here in the PNW... But for a proven inexpensive option to support our vendors, the Whoosh/Depo/Pwnall are at 462 in. core volume, definitely excellent bang for the buck.