Mountune Fiesta MRX Turbo

[Brura22]

Ok I'm asking so be cool, so if we're talking about 450hp then if 29psi is making 300hp then to make 450hp on this turbo if it could make that power we're talking about something like 45psi would be the upper limit of the plastic intake manifold and crankcase? I think the bottom end is only good to what 350? 400? Someone blew one up but I don't remember what the power was. I'm still having an issue here on what the limitation of boost would be. You could have 20psi and make 450hp right, I think the internals have a limit but the cylinder head bolts, plastic intake manifold, and crank case, the piston rings certainly in stock configuration could not deal with 45psi, is that what your saying? If that is really the case then does that mean the wastegate was chosen by Mountune due to safety was over zealous?

DeadHook blew up at 380.
Built the motor then made over 400 on their 450r kit. Which was like a GTX2867 or something


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[re-rx7]

Engines are simple, yet complex beasts. Based on your screen name RE-rx7, I would assume you have dove into the rotary world at some point?

Yes, I'm a huge rotary fan. Owned 3. SImple, little bastard engines lol. They literally taught me everything technical.

Ok I'm asking so be cool, so if we're talking about 450hp then if 29psi is making 300hp then to make 450hp on this turbo if it could make that power we're talking about something like 45psi would be the upper limit of the plastic intake manifold and crankcase? I think the bottom end is only good to what 350? 400? Someone blew one up but I don't remember what the power was. I'm still having an issue here on what the limitation of boost would be. You could have 20psi and make 450hp right, I think the internals have a limit but the cylinder head bolts, plastic intake manifold, and crank case, the piston rings certainly in stock configuration could not deal with 45psi, is that what your saying? If that is really the case then does that mean the wastegate was chosen by Mountune due to safety was over zealous?

On this turbo, 25-30 is about the limit. 35R will outflow a 2554 at the same PSI. IT moves more CFM per lb. The limitation of boost is when the compressor stops compressing boost and starts "chopping" it. As far as the crackcase I assume you are talking about the PCV system? The WG chosen by mountune was probably not chosen by them. My opinion of course. DOnt get caught up on boost when talking different turbos. 35R on 20psi will out perform a 2554 at 33psi. All things being equal

 

[thePete]

You can't really accurately look at or discuss cfm and boost pressure separately, they're fairly intertwined. Turboman is doing a good job of breaking things down.

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[antarctica24]

NICE!!

Cerakote Glacier Black, or some other company's product?

Cerakote ceramic. Its their 1800 degree stuff.

 

[antarctica24]

No I'm saying you need a copper gasket on each side of the banjo, you have them double stacked

Thank you that was a great catch on your part. I really dont understand what would have been so complicated for Mountune to just right up a good set of instructions?

 

[antarctica24]

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According to TurboSmart the only one they have for a garret is IWG75 Garrett GT2860RS (Disco Potato) 7 PSI Black
TS-0625-1072

Was there another one you were talking about?

 

[Brura22]

According to TurboSmart the only one they have for a garret is IWG75 Garrett GT2860RS (Disco Potato) 7 PSI Black
TS-0625-1072

Was there another one you were talking about?

Just meant to show that the WG between the 54 and 60's are probably cross compatible


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[antarctica24]

Did you read the other posts I made?
Mountune has an upgraded WG in testing for this turbo.... sooo clearly they think it'll benefit and they PLAN to offer one.

The Intake and elbow are NO issue. DHM made 400+ with the same elbow and Intake pipe size.

The WG literally explains the "problem" or limit.

It's delivering on its promise, people just want more.

Adam agrees the WG isn't on par with the turbos capabilities.. Does that convince you?

Dude, take a pill. Please. Testing does not mean they have an upgrade they are ready to sell. Testing means, they are looking to see if it makes a difference. This combination they have may be perfect the way it is. how much boost do you need at 6.5k rpm? your only there for a sec. Maybe not even that. If were talking about something that increases the power band through the entire RPM range, then it would be worth it. But for the boost to cut out at the top of the RPM range, seems like a safe move. If you were one of those people going for all out power, you bought the wrong turbo and the wrong car for that matter. What are we giving up in safety by holding 29psi at 6.5 and even 7K rpm? 300/300 is perfect for this car and this weight of car and like so many others have said, this turbo will probably outlive the car. Nothing Adam says would convince me of anything. Adam is selling a product.

 

[antarctica24]

DeadHook blew up at 380.
Built the motor then made over 400 on their 450r kit. Which was like a GTX2867 or something


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Thank you for your service. Now that we said that, take 5 minutes and shoot a video.

 

[re-rx7]

IT has to be a curved rod to fit this turbo.

 

[re-rx7]

Just meant to show that the WG between the 54 and 60's are probably cross compatible


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They arent. Not on this turbo.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

IT has to be a curved rod to fit this turbo.

That's what she said.....

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[re-rx7]

very good point re-rx7. And i agree that both the intake manifold and crankcase ventilation system both will be saitssctory for anything under 450. That is unless for some reason that there is already excessive blow by on someone's specific engine, in which the boost will amplify it. But at that point the person will be worrying about a rebuild and not the turbo.

Engines are simple, yet complex beasts. Based on your screen name re-rx7, i would assume you have dove into the rotary world at some point?

ok i'm asking so be cool, so if we're talking about 450hp then if 29psi is making 300hp then to make 450hp on this turbo if it could make that power we're talking about something like 45psi would be the upper limit of the plastic intake manifold and crankcase? I think the bottom end is only good to what 350? 400? Someone blew one up but i don't remember what the power was. I'm still having an issue here on what the limitation of boost would be. You could have 20psi and make 450hp right, i think the internals have a limit but the cylinder head bolts, plastic intake manifold, and crank case, the piston rings certainly in stock configuration could not deal with 45psi, is that what your saying? If that is really the case then does that mean the wastegate was chosen by mountune due to safety was over zealous?

that's what she said.....

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zing!

 

[Turboman17]

You can't really accurately look at or discuss cfm and boost pressure separately, they're fairly intertwined. Turboman is doing a good job of breaking things down.

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This subject is a tough one to explain. -------- Where to begin

PSI/Boost pressure is a unit of measurement of one pound force applied to an area of one square inch. (<-----That is pretty self explanatory) At sea level, on average (depending on many factors) we have 14.7psi being forced on us at any point which is called one atmosphere or absolute. It changes where you go, the weather currently and blah blah blah. I am in Denver, CO which is roughly 12.4-7psi.

Then you have PSI(G) which is effectively gauge pressure. Normally gauges are calibrated to read anything above absolute pressure. So if you see on your boost gauge 20 psi, it is actually 20psi +14.7psi at sea level. When you are looking at a compressor map, there will be off to the left side on the Y axis will be your pressure ratio. What's cool about looking at pressure ratios is the fact that it will tell you how much pressure is needed to move a certain volume of air which is displayed on the (X) axis in pounds per minute (lbs/min) on a compressor map

You can convert CFM into Lbs/min by taking the lbs/min and multiplying it by the air density which at sea level is 0.076lb/ft3. Figuring out CFM is very tough though. CFM has so many determining factors such as Volumetric effiency, rpm, Cubic inches, ect. There is a ton of variables.

The general rule of thumb is 9-10hp at the flyweel for each lb/min of airflow. So for 300 fwhp you need roughly 30-33lbs/min. With that figure you can then look at your compressor map and find your 30-33lbs per minute target on the X axis. You then follow that figure vertically to where the lbs/min figure intersects the (Y axis-pressure ratio) within the compressor map in a safe efficiency spot. Most choke lines start at %58 efficiency. Below %58 there is a rapid loss in compressor efficiency, turbo speed greatly increases as well as heat. You normally want to stay in the 70% range on a map of efficiency.

When looking at the compressor map for a stock GT2554R (link below) we cannot plot it because 30 lbs/min is the end of the lbs/min (X axis) and the compressor map covers the 30lbs minute X axis line.

https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turb...media/import/compressor_map/GT2554_COMP_0.jpg

We then have to move to the GT2560R turbo to see if we can plot a 30-33lbs per minute figure onto the compressor map. Which we can. If you use 30lbs/min it intersects a %70 compressor efficiency around a 2.1 pressure ratio. When you take 2.1 X 14.7(absolute)=30.97psi (gauge) to make 30lbs per minute and 300fwhp. Which is about par for what people have been seeing with this turbo.

https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turb...media/import/compressor_map/GT2560_COMP_0.jpg

So the MRX is roughly flowing as much air as a GT2560R turbocharger at 300fwhp. The concern is that are we in its efficiency range and if so, how much more lbs/min do we have to work with while still being efficient.

In short, Lb/min and PSI are directly related, but only when comparing the same turbochargers to eachother. Once you move to a smaller or larger turbocharger, it all goes out the window as shown below. Below is a Map for a GT3076R turbocharger. To make 300fwhp, you only need to make 23.52psig roughly on a GT3076R. Honestly probably less. So you can make 800fwhp on one turbo with 10psi and only 300fwhp on 30psi on another turbo. Lbs/min truly tells you how much horsepower a turbo can support and the pressure ratio tells you how much PSI it will take to make that given horsepower.

https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turb...media/import/compressor_map/GT3076_COMP_0.jpg

 

[STAZ15]

This subject is a tough one to explain. -------- Where to begin

PSI/Boost pressure is a unit of measurement of one pound force applied to an area of one square inch. (<-----That is pretty self explanatory) At sea level, on average (depending on many factors) we have 14.7psi being forced on us at any point which is called one atmosphere or absolute. It changes where you go, the weather currently and blah blah blah. I am in Denver, CO which is roughly 12.4-7psi.

Then you have PSI(G) which is effectively gauge pressure. Normally gauges are calibrated to read anything above absolute pressure. So if you see on your boost gauge 20 psi, it is actually 20psi +14.7psi at sea level. When you are looking at a compressor map, there will be off to the left side on the Y axis will be your pressure ratio. What's cool about looking at pressure ratios is the fact that it will tell you how much pressure is needed to move a certain volume of air which is displayed on the (X) axis in pounds per minute (lbs/min) on a compressor map

You can convert CFM into Lbs/min by taking the lbs/min and multiplying it by the air density which at sea level is 0.076lb/ft3. Figuring out CFM is very tough though. CFM has so many determining factors such as Volumetric effiency, rpm, Cubic inches, ect. There is a ton of variables.

The general rule of thumb is 9-10hp at the flyweel for each lb/min of airflow. So for 300 fwhp you need roughly 30-33lbs/min. With that figure you can then look at your compressor map and find your 30-33lbs per minute target on the X axis. You then follow that figure vertically to where the lbs/min figure intersects the (Y axis-pressure ratio) within the compressor map in a safe efficiency spot. Most choke lines start at %58 efficiency. Below %58 there is a rapid loss in compressor efficiency, turbo speed greatly increases as well as heat. You normally want to stay in the 70% range on a map of efficiency.

When looking at the compressor map for a stock GT2554R (link below) we cannot plot it because 30 lbs/min is the end of the lbs/min (X axis) and the compressor map covers the 30lbs minute X axis line.

https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turb...media/import/compressor_map/GT2554_COMP_0.jpg

We then have to move to the GT2560R turbo to see if we can plot a 30-33lbs per minute figure onto the compressor map. Which we can. If you use 30lbs/min it intersects a %70 compressor efficiency around a 2.1 pressure ratio. When you take 2.1 X 14.7(absolute)=30.97psi (gauge) to make 30lbs per minute and 300fwhp. Which is about par for what people have been seeing with this turbo.

https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turb...media/import/compressor_map/GT2560_COMP_0.jpg

So the MRX is roughly flowing as much air as a GT2560R turbocharger at 300fwhp. The concern is that are we in its efficiency range and if so, how much more lbs/min do we have to work with while still being efficient.

In short, Lb/min and PSI are directly related, but only when comparing the same turbochargers to eachother. Once you move to a smaller or larger turbocharger, it all goes out the window as shown below. Below is a Map for a GT3076R turbocharger. To make 300fwhp, you only need to make 23.52psig roughly on a GT3076R. Honestly probably less. So you can make 800fwhp on one turbo with 10psi and only 300fwhp on 30psi on another turbo. Lbs/min truly tells you how much horsepower a turbo can support and the pressure ratio tells you how much PSI it will take to make that given horsepower.

https://www.turbobygarrett.com/turb...media/import/compressor_map/GT3076_COMP_0.jpg

Wow this a great explanation. To be honest I've seen these graphs before and just was completely lost. Had I known this before I went with the 2554 I would have gone with the 2560 instead because it meets my needs hp wise. Thanks for the lesson!


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[Turboman17]

Wow this a great explanation. To be honest I've seen these graphs before and just was completely lost. Had I known this before I went with the 2554 I would have gone with the 2560 instead because it meets my needs hp wise. Thanks for the lesson!


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Sure thing. This is a pretty basic way of looking at it. When you start to understand turbos, especially very basic ones (Fixed Geometry), like the ones you find out of a performance catalog, they are super simple devices and with bit of effort you can guesstimate how a turbo will react given a certain amount of facts. Getting into Electronic VGT (Variable Geometry Turbines) or similar, then it gets out of my skill range. But there are things you just cannot account for also with basic turbos.

When I spec a turbo for a customer these are the things I ask them and I think it is important for the customer/end user to think about also. First is horsepower goals and most of the time I have a heart to heart to break down and find a realistic figure. Engine/Fuel/Compression that is going to be used to make the turbo operate. Third is how the car is going to be used such as Drag Racing (just peak power needs normally) or circuit racing (broad power band with good turbo transient response) down to daily driving (nice torque figures, power delivery early on). Fourth is where the vehicle is going to operate (altitude and climate based choice). I will ask a few more but normally full bread race teams only know those answers. Most racers are brand loyal towards certain turbochargers such as Garrett, Borgwarner, Precision ect, so I take that into account as well.

 

[re-rx7]

Sure thing. This is a pretty basic way of looking at it. When you start to understand turbos, especially very basic ones (Fixed Geometry), like the ones you find out of a performance catalog, they are super simple devices and with bit of effort you can guesstimate how a turbo will react given a certain amount of facts. Getting into Electronic VGT (Variable Geometry Turbines) or similar, then it gets out of my skill range. But there are things you just cannot account for also with basic turbos.

When I spec a turbo for a customer these are the things I ask them and I think it is important for the customer/end user to think about also. First is horsepower goals and most of the time I have a heart to heart to break down and find a realistic figure. Engine/Fuel/Compression that is going to be used to make the turbo operate. Third is how the car is going to be used such as Drag Racing (just peak power needs normally) or circuit racing (broad power band with good turbo transient response) down to daily driving (nice torque figures, power delivery early on). Fourth is where the vehicle is going to operate (altitude and climate based choice). I will ask a few more but normally full bread race teams only know those answers. Most racers are brand loyal towards certain turbochargers such as Garrett, Borgwarner, Precision ect, so I take that into account as well.

Loyal is an understatement LOL

 

[Brura22]

Loyal is an understatement LOL

I just don't f*ck with 3rd party hybrids anymore. I'd buy any kit that has a Garrett, BW, or Precision

 

[Turboman17]

I just don't f*ck with 3rd party hybrids anymore. I'd buy any kit that has a Garrett, BW, or Precision

Some hybrids, if made well and have received the proper research can be reliable and perform well, but the majority are junk snake oil that are worse then the factory units. For the longest time I would not even deal with Precision's. Still don't to a degree unless I absolutely have to. I work with alot of reputable race car builders and turbo kit fabricators who have been to hell and back with Precision and most of the time they will not stand behind their product. I will say this though, that since Precision was recently bought by Wabtec Corp. Precision may have a hopeful quality future. Wabtec owns Turbonetics and has for a while. So with Turbonetics quality and precisions brand recognition, they may be a force to reckon with in the next few years. But until I see the quality dramatically rise, I will continue to not support their product. For me in the performance world it is Garrettt, BorgWarner and Turbonetics. Those are the only brands I trust.

 

[Brura22]

Some hybrids, if made well and have received the proper research can be reliable and perform well, but the majority are junk snake oil that are worse then the factory units. For the longest time I would not even deal with Precision's. Still don't to a degree unless I absolutely have to. I work with alot of reputable race car builders and turbo kit fabricators who have been to hell and back with Precision and most of the time they will not stand behind their product. I will say this though, that since Precision was recently bought by Wabtec Corp. Precision may have a hopeful quality future. Wabtec owns Turbonetics and has for a while. So with Turbonetics quality and precisions brand recognition, they may be a force to reckon with in the next few years. But until I see the quality dramatically rise, I will continue to not support their product. For me in the performance world it is Garrettt, BorgWarner and Turbonetics. Those are the only brands I trust.

I've run the Turbonetics "hybrids".. those I'll fuck with.
Just not these insanely maxed out 3rd party hybrids...
I've seen more failures than any turbo company should have from one line of product.


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