MeisterR GT1 pics and thoughts

[TemecFist]

I've had these on for a few weeks now, just wanted to give my initial thoughts. Jerrick suggested I go with an 8/6 setup which is what I went with (hes WAY more knowledgeable than me, so I will.always take advice from someone smarter than me). I havent been able to get them on the track yet because of this whole Covid debacle, but I have done quite a few late night mountain runs, and when I say "runs".....I mean quick runs (1.9 lateral g's).

Dialed in at the stiffest settings it is too stiff for DD, and might even be a bit too stiff for a more open track, but would prob be really good on a short track or AX. On the softest settings the car rides way better then stock. Its firm, planted, but still floats over bumps and joints. So far the only negative that "might" come out of these, is that the car seems to have a little more body roll. It is prob just me or a placebo effect and just need more time dialing in the settings. It still needs to go back in the shop to have it re-corner balanced as well. I'll edit this post once I get that done as well as some track time (which may be sooner than later if we can rent the whole track).
-The rear spring bushings were replaced with Powerflex black/race bushings when installed as well.
-SuperPro end links
-rear ride height is set 1/4" lower than the front
-front ride height was set by eyeballing for the correct roll center
-MINIMMUM camber I could get was -3.4* front, but that was with H&R camber bolts as well, and -2.2* for the rear. (Coilovers were installed with max camber from the top hats).

(All these preliminary adjustments will be re-done and fine tuned once I can get the car back in the shop and up on the rack.

Overall, these coilovers are definitely worth the money. Jerrick has been nothing but helpful, supportive, and accessible thru the whole process. Definitely a stand up guy!!!

Here are a few pics

 

[green_henry]

As far as camber goes, those are really good specs!

 

[TemecFist]

As far as camber goes, those are really good specs!

I agree. I could have prob gotten close to, or maybe even over -5* for the fronts

 

[M-Sport fan]

I know that this will be/is primarily a track car, but, you run -3.4* to -5* camber ON THE STREET?
(Or is it only driven on the street now for 'testing' since the track is not available/possible?)

Everyone tells me that the A052s I want to run are 'camber challenged', but there is NO WAY I would ever run that much camber on the street, regardless, even if it could be obtained easily.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Those are really well put together. If I wasn't set on OEM with Swifts I d roll these! Good choice!

 

[TemecFist]

I know that this will be/is primarily a track car, but, you run -3.4* to -5* camber ON THE STREET?
(Or is it only driven on the street now for 'testing' since the track is not available/possible?)

Everyone tells me that the A052s I want to run are 'camber challenged', but there is NO WAY I would ever run that much camber on the street, regardless, even if it could be obtained easily.

Yeah, lol, I'm running -3.4* on the street. Toe hurts tires more than camber. I'm on 888r's, so far, so good. I don't DD this tho either, it only has 15k miles on it (2017). Lol

 

[TemecFist]

Those are really well put together. If I wasn't set on OEM with Swifts I d roll these! Good choice!

I ran OEM's and Swifts.....and these are light years better, a little more expensive albeit.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I ran OEM's and Swifts.....and these are light years better, a little more expensive albeit.

Maybe one day ill go Coilovers...the only things holding me back...The salt and chemicals on the road here in Mn and having to adjust them. I'm a set and let her rip kind of guy.

 

[TemecFist]

Maybe one day ill go Coilovers...the only things holding me back...The salt and chemicals on the road here in Mn and having to adjust them. I'm a set and let her rip kind of guy.

Once these are corner balanced and "set", i dont plan on touching them, but yeah, I hear you on the corrosion and such.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Once these are corner balanced and "set", i dont plan on touching them, but yeah, I hear you on the corrosion and such.

Story of my life!

 

[green_henry]

Toe is what kills tires, not camber ... or so I read

 

[M-Sport fan]

Toe is what kills tires, not camber ... or so I read

True, but it was not just the wear I was questioning from major negative camber use on the street.
It was more the 'dartiness' and the greater tendency to almost dangerously, 'tramline' in any grooves worn into the road by heavy truck traffic.

 

[Dpro]

Toe is what kills tires, not camber ... or so I read

LOL “ why yes excessive negative camber will wear out the inside of your tread at a severe angle Junior”
Toe will kill tires but excessive negative camber does indeed toast tires . Anything over 2 degrees on cars will shorten tire life excessively unless you rotate them at 5k religiously .
Hell even 2 degrees to 1.8 should be rotated. lol

Heh I went through a set of Hankooks on my BMW in 6 months running 3.5 degrees negative up front. Whole inside part of the tire right down to threads at a nice angle lol. No toe wear just one side tread other side none.
To Temec Fist do not fool yourself rotate those bad boys or you will see even shorter life than they are already known for with that camber setting you are running.

Also how do you pull off 2.2 in the rear. I know my rear plates and the DNA plates only put you at 1.8 degrees total over stock.

 

[TemecFist]

LOL “ why yes excessive negative camber will wear out the inside of your tread at a severe angle Junior”
Toe will kill tires but excessive negative camber does indeed toast tires . Anything over 2 degrees on cars will shorten tire life excessively unless you rotate them at 5k religiously .
Hell even 2 degrees to 1.8 should be rotated. lol

Heh I went through a set of Hankooks on my BMW in 6 months running 3.5 degrees negative up front. Whole inside part of the tire right down to threads at a nice angle lol. No toe wear just one side tread other side none.
To Temec Fist do not fool yourself rotate those bad boys or you will see even shorter life than they are already known for with that camber setting you are running.

Also how do you pull off 2.2 in the rear. I know my rear plates and the DNA plates only put you at 1.8 degrees total over stock.

"Rotate every 5k"?....lol.....I only get 6k out of a set of tires, hahahaha, and that's because normally the tire is heat cycled out. I rotate every 2k miles or every track day. I've heard both sides of the story, "toe eats tires" "camber eats tires" and all I can do is go by my personal experience, -3.4* camber has not increased my tire wear by that much. Drop to -2* camber and I get what?...8k miles out of a set?....maybe?....the extra camber is worth the loss of 2k miles of tread life in my eyes. Tires are consumable parts. Maybe on other cars it's different? I've had other track cars in the past that had aggressive camber and didnt have excessive tire wear either, so who knows.
The only time I've ever had an issue with a tire was when I tried a set of Federal RS-RR's. Running -2.0* camber, and 1 tire separated. (Federals are know to separate I guess).
To get more than 1.8* in the rear, I used plates and some creative engineering, lol. Its possible, you just have to think outside the box.

Lose the Hankooks and you'll get more then 6 months. Kidding, just giving you a hard time. Lol.
I'm actually going to try the NT-01s next so I can rotate front and back, left and right, inside and out, and top to bottom. Lol

Seriously tho, how do you tell the difference between toe wear, and wear due to camber?

West End Alignment sets the car up for me. They know it's not a DD and I trust them, theyve done magic on the alignments and corner balancing so far.

 

[TemecFist]

True, but it was not just the wear I was questioning from major negative camber use on the street.
It was more the 'dartiness' and the greater tendency to almost dangerously, 'tramline' in any grooves worn into the road by heavy truck traffic.

From my experience, the dartiness comes from toe. Toe out makes the car a little more "darty" and toe in makes the car track in a straight line a little better. Theres pros and cons to both. As for the grooves in the road, idk, maybe more camber does make it tramline in the grooves more. Maybe someone smarter than me can give us both some insight.

 

[Dpro]

From my experience, the dartiness comes from toe. Toe out makes the car a little more "darty" and toe in makes the car track in a straight line a little better. Theres pros and cons to both. As for the grooves in the road, idk, maybe more camber does make it tramline in the grooves more. Maybe someone smarter than me can give us both some insight.

My car tramlined with the RE50’s. Once I put the Feddys on excessive tramline went away of course I should say I tortured the RE50’s. lol
As I did not even make 10k on them.
You are right about Pros and Cons to both I do have a bit of toe on my car right now and I am going to be dialing in more negative up front after I put my Camber plates in the rear. I also decided to install the Hotchkis rear bar after putting my rear Camber plates on. It should be interesting.
My car also pulls street duty and hopefully should see the track one of these days. Though that is hard to predict when given the current situation.

 

[AZSP33D]

Excessive toe in or excessive toe out will destabilize the feel of the car, and a very slight toe in is typically the most stable.

Regarding camber... lets think of an egg rolling around on a flat surface, it will not roll straight but in a curved trajectory (smaller diameter on one side and larger diameter on the other side). This is actually why a motorcycle turns and follows an arc when leaned over.

With some negative camber, you essentially have to eggs rolling towards each other, and as each tire loads and unloads, the loaded one darts one direction and when load balance has a slight change it darts in the other direction... and in a straight line there's some extra rolling resistance. Similar to excessive toe in. With -3 degrees I would aim for close to zero toe and more than -3 try a slight toe out for the front. Note that toe may change and steering may change as the tires move up and down if there's some bump steer, and usually there is in further toe in for bump, exaggerating the effect of negative camber and unsettling the car at high speed.

 

[Dpro]

Excessive toe in or excessive toe out will destabilize the feel of the car, and a very slight toe in is typically the most stable.

Regarding camber... lets think of an egg rolling around on a flat surface, it will not roll straight but in a curved trajectory (smaller diameter on one side and larger diameter on the other side). This is actually why a motorcycle turns and follows an arc when leaned over.

With some negative camber, you essentially have to eggs rolling towards each other, and as each tire loads and unloads, the loaded one darts one direction and when load balance has a slight change it darts in the other direction... and in a straight line there's some extra rolling resistance. Similar to excessive toe in. With -3 degrees I would aim for close to zero toe and more than -3 try a slight toe out for the front. Note that toe may change and steering may change as the tires move up and down if there's some bump steer, and usually there is in further toe in for bump, exaggerating the effect of negative camber and unsettling the car at high speed.

Ya the Egg analogy and terms are a pretty cool way of explaining some of the characteristics that can happen.

I always put negative camber and the use of camber in simpler terms. its as simple as when your car is going down the road in straight line with zero Camber the tire patch is full contact with the roadway yet when you go into a corner the car leans and literally picks up part of the tire patch. When you add negative camber you are correcting the loss of tire patch in the corner as negative camber cause the wheel to straighten up in the corner thereby giving you fill patch contact and more traction hence why adding negative camber allows one to to move through corners faster. The downside is you tire leans when going down the street straight and does not have complete contact patch with the road.

 

[TDavis]

Any particular reason you put your rear springs/perch installed upside down?

 

[TemecFist]

Any particular reason you put your rear springs/perch installed upside down?

I've seen coilovers installed both ways. Spring perch at the top, and spring perch at the bottom. I'm not sure it makes any difference, especially with a linear rate spring. With the spring perch at the bottom, it makes adjustments alot easier. Maybe I'm wrong tho, please let me know.