Looking to buy a pre-owned FiST or FoST as a second car

[Wjones14]

Old-timer and lifelong car enthusiast. My first car was a one year old 1974 Camaro Z28 I bought when I was 19. That car and every car I owned since was a manual. Up until 2013, I always owned just one car, all of them RWD and horrible in snow, but somehow made it work. In 2013, my daughter outgrew her 2003 Mini, and I decided to buy it as a daily driver/winter beater. Turns out I love the idea of having both a daily driver and a "good" car - but ONLY because the Mini is such a hoot to drive.

The "good" car I have now is a 2018 Camaro 2SS 1LE. It's a phenomenal beast performance-wise and I LOVE it as a track toy (once per year), taking it to Cruise nights and Cars & Coffee meets, and of course some spirited nice weather driving. But I'm not going to lie - it would be an absolutely horrendous daily driver. It's big, hard to get in and out of, has no interior storage and a tiny trunk opening, useless rear seats, ridiculous visibility, and gets 17 mpg while requiring 93 octane. I wouldn't dream of taking it in snow. Luckily for me, my sister-in-law has spare garage space nearby, where it has been stored since Thanksgiving and will stay until late March, opening up my own garage for the Mini.

As fun and practical as the Mini is for a commuter/grocery getter, it is 15 years old. I spent thousands on repairs in the past few years. Reliable it's not, and I'd like to move on before something else breaks.

I test drove a new 2017 FiST last winter and loved how it drove. It has all the good qualities of the Mini, plus a ton more torque.

I've set a budget of $14K max since this is a second car, so I think that means I'm looking at 2014-16 pre-owned cars. Are there significant changes between these model years, or any years I should avoid?

I also am not ruling out the Focus ST if I could find one in my budget. I like the idea of even more power and more usable space, while still being relatively small. I have not driven one yet, however, and most comparisons I see conclude that the FiST is the more fun car of the two.

 

[FiSTerMr]

I test drove a new FiST and FoST last year before I bought my '17 (used w/2,700 mi). The FiST obviously was the clear winner for me.
While the FoST may be faster on paper, it sure didn't feel that way. The FiST is lighter and more nimble. The driving experience is more engaging in comparison. The FoST felt like a bloated, overweight FiST.

It's not impossible to find a low mileage '16/'17 in your price range.

 

[triplegriff]

What he said [emoji1312]
And definitely get the newest FiST possible for your budget? I believe that they got some of the earlier kinks fixed as they went along, so if you can get a 16 over a 14 or 15, I would. Depending on the mileage, you might even be able to get into a 17, depending on what creature comforts you want.

Good luck on the search!!

And love that the fun car is the 1LE, hell of a car [emoji1591][emoji1591]


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[TyphoonFiST]

There are a couple of members on here selling their Rides in the For sale section id suggest checking out if I was you! Good luck!

 

[ROCKYFiestta]

get the leather seats I sure wish I did

 

[ROCKYFiestta]

another alternative is the mazdaspeed 3 1st gens are real cheap and 2nd gens are around as well, my buddy has one with the corksport stuff and its faster than my fist but im not on e30 yet

 

[Quickone]

I am also an old timer and life long car enthusiast. I recently had a 2017 Camaro- RS though and completely understand what you said about it as a daily driver. I am curious thought do you have the automatic 8 speed or manual transmission? I had the A8 (my first automatic in a car ever) got rid of it due to the non fixable transmission slipping and shuddering. I had enough of it and when my C4 Corvette just was taking too much of my money and died I traded it in and the Camaro for a 2018 base Mustang GT- which I love by the way- The Camaro has the looks and performance over the Mustang for sure but as a driver the Mustang is way better- mainly the visibility. And I know about the gas mileage- my previous 2011 Camaro SS netted 16 on premium gas, my GT gets 26 average- on regular gas. The Mustang has it's own set of issues though with the engine ticking, etc.....

Now back to the FIST- I have a 2017 (base with no Recaro seats), bought brand new last March. I traded in my previous 2016 Subaru WRX for it- to cash in on the equity and get a commuter car as I changed jobs and my commute increased from 12 miles round trip to 80. I love the FIST- it's practical, fun to drive, nimble, handles well- especially cornering, nice shifting and is so comfortable too. It sits up a little higher, is easy to get in and out of, excellent visibility. I love the rear wiper on the mornings when there is dew on the windows as I park it in the street. I got a white one, as it reflects the hot Florida sun too. I put almost 10K miles on it so far, not one issue- no funny noises, no rattles, no engine ticking or notchy shifting- and I am picky. It's also easy to maintain- I do my own maintenance and takes only 4.5 quarts of oil with filter you can get at Walmart. So it's very reasonable transportation.

OK the cons- it is high to insure- don't be surprised. I changed my insurance from Geico to Hartford group and saved $400 a year but it's still $200 more a year than my GT. It runs way better with 93 octane so I run 93 in it. I average 39.5 MPG but my commute is back roads and I drive it easy- slow starts. Most of the automatic cookie cutters blast by me off the line but I'll take the almost 40 MPG. When I get on it, it seems to burn a lot of fuel and I suspect if I drove it hard it would drop to mid- upper 20's. Oh, I wish first gear was not so low. If I red line it it's OK but normal starts it's too low. My only mod is a MBRP CAT back and it sounds real good, probably boosted the HP by 5-10. I'm debating other mods- mainly Cobb Accessport.

Other fun cars I have had to consider- Civic SI, MazdaSpeed 3. My 2011 MazdaSpeed 3 was one of my favorites- a real sleeper- 263 HP stock and 280 Ft LB torque. And a functional hatch too. Good MPG too, 30. Hard to find used and not beat with low miles.

 

[Jerickson88]

Hey, buy mine!

 

[Wjones14]

Thanks for the replies. Very helpful!

I test drove a new FiST and FoST last year before I bought my '17 (used w/2,700 mi). The FiST obviously was the clear winner for me.
While the FoST may be faster on paper, it sure didn't feel that way. The FiST is lighter and more nimble. The driving experience is more engaging in comparison. The FoST felt like a bloated, overweight FiST.

It's not impossible to find a low mileage '16/'17 in your price range.

Makes sense - on paper, my Mini is not at all quick, but its small size makes it seem like you're going faster than you are, and that makes it fun. I got a similar feeling in the FiST I test drove.

another alternative is the mazdaspeed 3 1st gens are real cheap and 2nd gens are around as well, my buddy has one with the corksport stuff and its faster than my fist but im not on e30 yet

Good suggestion! Hadn't even thought about the Mazdaspeed3. I just looked them up and the last year of production was 2013. And then found an online Motor Trend comparison of the 2013 Mazdaspeed3, Focus ST, and STi. They liked the Focus ST better, but the Mazda was actually faster, and their conclusion was that you couldn't go wrong with either one. The only problem I see is the fuel economy on the Mazda is pretty bad - 18 mpg city.

Anyway, good suggestion.

 

[Wjones14]

I am also an old timer and life long car enthusiast. I recently had a 2017 Camaro- RS though and completely understand what you said about it as a daily driver. I am curious thought do you have the automatic 8 speed or manual transmission? I had the A8 (my first automatic in a car ever) got rid of it due to the non fixable transmission slipping and shuddering. I had enough of it and when my C4 Corvette just was taking too much of my money and died I traded it in and the Camaro for a 2018 base Mustang GT- which I love by the way- The Camaro has the looks and performance over the Mustang for sure but as a driver the Mustang is way better- mainly the visibility. And I know about the gas mileage- my previous 2011 Camaro SS netted 16 on premium gas, my GT gets 26 average- on regular gas. The Mustang has it's own set of issues though with the engine ticking, etc.....

Now back to the FIST- I have a 2017 (base with no Recaro seats), bought brand new last March. I traded in my previous 2016 Subaru WRX for it- to cash in on the equity and get a commuter car as I changed jobs and my commute increased from 12 miles round trip to 80. I love the FIST- it's practical, fun to drive, nimble, handles well- especially cornering, nice shifting and is so comfortable too. It sits up a little higher, is easy to get in and out of, excellent visibility. I love the rear wiper on the mornings when there is dew on the windows as I park it in the street. I got a white one, as it reflects the hot Florida sun too. I put almost 10K miles on it so far, not one issue- no funny noises, no rattles, no engine ticking or notchy shifting- and I am picky. It's also easy to maintain- I do my own maintenance and takes only 4.5 quarts of oil with filter you can get at Walmart. So it's very reasonable transportation.

OK the cons- it is high to insure- don't be surprised. I changed my insurance from Geico to Hartford group and saved $400 a year but it's still $200 more a year than my GT. It runs way better with 93 octane so I run 93 in it. I average 39.5 MPG but my commute is back roads and I drive it easy- slow starts. Most of the automatic cookie cutters blast by me off the line but I'll take the almost 40 MPG. When I get on it, it seems to burn a lot of fuel and I suspect if I drove it hard it would drop to mid- upper 20's. Oh, I wish first gear was not so low. If I red line it it's OK but normal starts it's too low. My only mod is a MBRP CAT back and it sounds real good, probably boosted the HP by 5-10. I'm debating other mods- mainly Cobb Accessport.

Other fun cars I have had to consider- Civic SI, MazdaSpeed 3. My 2011 MazdaSpeed 3 was one of my favorites- a real sleeper- 263 HP stock and 280 Ft LB torque. And a functional hatch too. Good MPG too, 30. Hard to find used and not beat with low miles.

Thanks for the reply JT. Like I said, I've never owned an automatic in my life, so the Camaro is a manual. And actually, the 1LE is only available with the 6-speed. The way it should be!

All the positives you mentioned in favor of the FiSt are exactly why I'm interested. It might be an unpopular opinion, but I think I might prefer the non-Recaro seats as well. My Camaro has heated/cooled Recaros with a suede seating surface and leather bolsters - they're nice, but... the car is that much harder to get into and out of because of the side bolsters.

Someone else mentioned the Mazdaspeed3 as well, so that is on my radar. I also was considering a Civic Si. I just worry that the Civic may be boring.

You sure have a nice stable with a new FiST and Mustang GT.

 

[Wjones14]

I would prefer a car with built-in Navigation, so I'd be looking for pre-owned FiST cars with that option. Is there a difference in the Nav/Sync screens and functionality between 2014/15/16 models?

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I would prefer a car with built-in Navigation, so I'd be looking for pre-owned FiST cars with that option. Is there a difference in the Nav/Sync screens and functionality between 2014/15/16 models?

14' & 15' sync 2 ....16' is sync 3 with Android auto and apple car play

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[Jerickson88]

I would prefer a car with built-in Navigation, so I'd be looking for pre-owned FiST cars with that option. Is there a difference in the Nav/Sync screens and functionality between 2014/15/16 models?

You can add factory nav. It’ll set you back about 1100 i think

 

[Quickone]

Thanks for the reply JT. Like I said, I've never owned an automatic in my life, so the Camaro is a manual. And actually, the 1LE is only available with the 6-speed. The way it should be!

All the positives you mentioned in favor of the FiSt are exactly why I'm interested. It might be an unpopular opinion, but I think I might prefer the non-Recaro seats as well. My Camaro has heated/cooled Recaros with a suede seating surface and leather bolsters - they're nice, but... the car is that much harder to get into and out of because of the side bolsters.

Someone else mentioned the Mazdaspeed3 as well, so that is on my radar. I also was considering a Civic Si. I just worry that the Civic may be boring.

You sure have a nice stable with a new FiST and Mustang GT.

Thanks- both the GT and FIST are indeed a nice combo. The FIST is the daily although both are good Dailys. I take the GT when I want that straight line power and V8 sound.

I had 3 SI's- a 2003, 2007 and a 2014. The 2007 was the most fun as it had the K20 high revving 8K RPM engine. It also had a great sounding stock exhaust that I did not have to upgrade. The 2014 was OK but needed an exhaust and I never did put one on. Another fun car- probably the most fun car I ever had was my 2017 Mazda Miata ND Club. That car was quick- able to change speeds and be nimble like a motorcycle. Way quicker than the FIST- especially off the line. I added a racing exhaust and it made that car come alive. But it's super small 2 seater and why I traded it- lack of practicality. Focus ST is nice to check out too- perhaps not as fun as the FIST but definitely faster.

If you do get a FIST I highly recommend putting on an exhaust. The stock exhaust in my opinion is way too quiet. I definitely liked the car way more after the MBRP. I can hear it now and it crackles and pops- I get compliments from the exhaust sound.

 

[milkman42]

absolutely go for the 2016+ for sync 3. save a bit more if you have to

 

[Quickone]

Thanks for the replies. Very helpful!



Makes sense - on paper, my Mini is not at all quick, but its small size makes it seem like you're going faster than you are, and that makes it fun. I got a similar feeling in the FiST I test drove.



Good suggestion! Hadn't even thought about the Mazdaspeed3. I just looked them up and the last year of production was 2013. And then found an online Motor Trend comparison of the 2013 Mazdaspeed3, Focus ST, and STi. They liked the Focus ST better, but the Mazda was actually faster, and their conclusion was that you couldn't go wrong with either one. The only problem I see is the fuel economy on the Mazda is pretty bad - 18 mpg city.

Anyway, good suggestion.

I learned that you cannot always go by the EPA ratings. Sometimes they are better, sometimes worse. I was initially worried about the MPG of the MazdaSpeed 3 with the 18 MPG rating. Coming from a 2010 Subaru WRX where it also had a 18 MPG rating. That WRX was one of the worst cars I ever owned. Cornered horrible, got on a dismal 16 MPG highway going a steady 65. So on the Mazdaspeed 3 I checked Consumer Reports test and read that they got over 30 MPG highway with it. I bought a 2011 brand new for 22K- my best car I ever had. I AVERAGED over 30 MPG in it and got 33 on the highway at 70. I had it 5 years until I let my son use it and it got totaled. (He was OK thankfully)

Similar note- a 2014 Nissan Juke CVT rated for 34 MPG, I got 18-19- horrible. And my recent 2016 WRX- wow I averaged 33 and got a whopping 40 MPG in it on one trip- going 70 MPH. A very nice car. What a difference from the 2010- it got more than double the gas mileage for me.

 

[Wjones14]

I learned that you cannot always go by the EPA ratings. Sometimes they are better, sometimes worse. I was initially worried about the MPG of the MazdaSpeed 3 with the 18 MPG rating. Coming from a 2010 Subaru WRX where it also had a 18 MPG rating. That WRX was one of the worst cars I ever owned. Cornered horrible, got on a dismal 16 MPG highway going a steady 65. So on the Mazdaspeed 3 I checked Consumer Reports test and read that they got over 30 MPG highway with it. I bought a 2011 brand new for 22K- my best car I ever had. I AVERAGED over 30 MPG in it and got 33 on the highway at 70. I had it 5 years until I let my son use it and it got totaled. (He was OK thankfully)

Similar note- a 2014 Nissan Juke CVT rated for 34 MPG, I got 18-19- horrible. And my recent 2016 WRX- wow I averaged 33 and got a whopping 40 MPG in it on one trip- going 70 MPH. A very nice car. What a difference from the 2010- it got more than double the gas mileage for me.

JT - the more I think about it, the FiST seems to be the way to go for me. I like the Mini except for the reliability part, and the main reasons I like it are:

• small size makes it seem like you're going faster than you are
• small size makes for easy parking
• quick steering is fun
• great fuel economy

The FiST has the same qualities, while the FoST and Mazdaspeed3 don't.

And one thing that's as sure as death and taxes: EVERY automotive enthusiast forum has threads about owners exceeding the EPA mpg figures, sometimes by a lot. Check any forum. Over on the Camaro forum, you'll see plenty of folks swear they get 30 mpg with the 6.2L V8, and they'll show you photos of the car computer to prove it. Please don't take it the wrong way - I'm not doubting you for one second that you got 30 mpg with your Mazdaspeed3... I'll only say that in the Motor Trend Mazdaspeed3/Focus ST comparision, their actual real world highway MPG in that car was 23 mpg.

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/ford/focus/2013/2013-mazdaspeed3-ford-focus-st-subaru-wrx-special-edition/

In my own experience, and this is me only, I find the EPA figures are usually right on the money. My Camaro window sticker says 16/19/25 city/combined/highway, and that's what I get. I've never reset Trip odometer B since the car was new, and it's reading 17.5, since most of my driving is city. My BMW sticker said 19/22/28, and that's what it is. Same with the sticker on my '05 Mustang GT where it said 17/25, and that's what it was in general, though I did once do a 3-hour all-highway trip at 65-70 mph and got 27.1 mpg. It does happen. My Mini sticker says 25/28/33, and that's exactly what it gets. Again, that's just me. Like they say, YMMV.

Anyway, like I said, I'm reading more and more testimonials, even on the Focus ST site, where people who have driven both the Focus ST and Fiesta ST think the FiST is more fun, and also *feels* faster. Given that, plus the FiST gets much better mileage, and its small size is what I like, it seems more and more like a no-brainer.

And given the replies in this thread, I'm really hoping to find a low mileage '16 in my budget, to get the Sync3 infotainment.

 

[Mr. Bridgestone]

How soon are you looking for a Fiesta ST. My lease is up soon and I might trade mine for a new one rather than run out the last few months on my lease. I have a 2016 Fiesta ST. Black with stock seats, moon roof, black wheels with red calipers, and navigation. All available options except the Recaros. Currently has about 38,000 miles. Runs great and the wheels have new summer tires installed last summer. Probably about 2,000 miles on them.

 

[Tmueller]

id get a later built 15 that has better cooling than the 14s with no nav as you can add it for about 60 bucks with an A8 map card and the OBDII to laptop connection.