gtx question vs peron

[pwnall1337]

Hey Guys,

I think my 2015 Race Red FiST will be here in 2-3 weeks as it's still in transit, however I plan on ordering cobb stage 3 from mod bargains as soon as I take delivery of the vehicle. I need power so I've been doing heavy research between the peron kit which is now less costly as the exhance rate is $1.06 per euro, however from what I've been reading from Rod's build is that breaking the 305 whp mark is doable but pushing it if I read correctly? I'm leaning more towards the gt2860rs or gtx2860r from atp but sico mentioned something about higher EGT's. I'm defiinitely no expert, but is there any truth to the higher EGT's? I read the thread and didn't see any data to back it up when asked, however we have some really smart turbo guys on here and I was hoping if this theory could be debunked.

Thanks

 

[RAAMaudio]

I most highly recommend looking at the DHM threads and considering their tubular manifold I am having built, you can go EFR or GT.

 

[rodmoe]

I would also source this closer to home as the Euro parts are a smidge different than ours and they provide no tuning support as DHM could perhaps provide. Since He is doing some now and more to come I would think..

 

[pwnall1337]

I would also source this closer to home as the Euro parts are a smidge different than ours and they provide no tuning support as DHM could perhaps provide. Since He is doing some now and more to come I would think..

The thing I'm most concerned with is higher EGT's. Is there really a big decrease with swapping out the manifold? My goal is 320+ whp and I'm not sure the EFR will give me the room I need to grow on 93 pump only. I PM'd Russ on friday or saturday so just waiting on him to get back to me. I'm not too concerned with tuning and would rather have a tuner kit to save money as I will be getting my car cobb pro tuned by Jorge @ JMS Racing like the other FiST I had.

 

[rodmoe]

I do not think 320 whp is in the fuel pump on pump gas to be honest. I have not heard anyone anywhere getting that do to the limits of the HPFP. Peron mentioned 290 they were seeing on a kit of theirs that SiCo was running. And said I should see around that too..

 

[pwnall1337]

ATP's dyno chart shows them hitting 330 whp on pump gas with stock fueling and just an intercooler/downpipe.

I'm thinking the gtx2860r will give room to grow when fuel modifications are available but it should be able to touch 310 whp on stock fuelling safely right?

 

[RAAMaudio]

There is something about that jump at the end that does not seem right. From all other info we have seen it does not seem likely possible, since so little is known about the tuning on this I am going to wait and see what we get from a fully tuned setup as I know the tuning was not complete, from the tuner that did it.

If we can get a modified or upgraded HPFP or if it works to put a higher output LPFP in the tank to suppliment the HPFP I would be very happy to see that happen but so far have found no leads showing it is being addressed, none that I recall at least.

I am willing to put a bigger pump in my tank, I probably have one that will work, if somebody in the know would advise to try it. I will have my DHM EFR system here soon to start tuning so this is the perfect time to find out.

 

[rodmoe]

Agreed the GTX will be a great unit and if made to spool early it will be a hoot to drive. I wish they had more info on the graph as it just looks weird at the end.. rither way it should be fun to see and I know things are being looked at for fueling..

 

[blurred]

Looks like it just ran lean, but without an rpm scale and the torque it is difficult to take anything from that. As well as it is likely a euro car as they have used the DIN setting.

I am always a GTX fan because the compressors are far better than anything else out there. Especially on a car that needs a lot of boost to make its power you need a compressor that will have great flow at higher pressure ratios.

All the talk about "what XX turbo can do" is sort of meaningless as it all boils down to the parts used and how good a tuner you use. Your tuner should be the one choosing the turbo based on the compressor map, the turbine size and housing used based on what sort of exhaust energy you will be creating which relates to the fuel you are using and what downpipe/exhaust etc...

 

[Sourskittle]

Absolutely nothing is really known about the ATP cars. They even post there dyno in "mph". You can see the AFR at the end of that run starting go lean too. That's a 300whp dyno to me, but the turbo can def do way more.

You guys are all leaving a lot on the table when you completely confine yourselfs to 93oct. Its just so night and day. I understand wanting good power on 93oct. And I understand you don't want to run race gas all the time. But a 300whp fiesta that makes 300whp for its entire "racing powerband" is pretty damn awesome, essp on 93oct. And if your going to race or drag strip, dump in some race gas and add 40+ whp of timing (maybe more). The timing increase will not require more fuel volume, so its the same AMOUNT of fuel, just making way more power per fuel.

Also... Leaving meth/water injection off the table is a big mistake too.

There will be a future fueling solution. So buy your boost hardware accordingly, and please,'just TRY TO SURVIVE ON ONLY 300whp ON 93OCT FOR NOW, lol.

If your doing this this without an LSD, your spending resources in the wrong place. This car is not gonna put up with 300+ whp without an LsD very happily. I have big tires and between the torque steer and tires losing grip, I was thinking for a while that my datalogs were gonna start needing to be in 4th gear because the car moves around and it can show up in the datalogs. And that is at 265-285whp, and no where near as much torque as those turbos can produce.

As far as EGT's, I don't remember anyone from ATP of their tuner (cobb) posting about that. An external wastegate would do a lot for EGT's as well, if it is an issue. But my guess is that its not going to be an issue. I'm cramming 25+ psi into the motor at 6,000rpm+ with a turbine wheel and housing the size of a lug nut, these super efficient turbos pushing 25psi (it is more cfm) at the same rpms, but a properly sized turbine wheel and housing should not have an issue. Maybe time will prove me wrong. Maybe my Ethanol content has been saving me there... You can always add water ( lose power, but extremely lower egts ).

 

[pwnall1337]

I think for starters, I posted the wrong dyno sheet. The one I posted was ATP seeing how far they could go on stock fueling before it ran out which is why they show AFR and why it runs lean. Here's a 310 whp sheet. We have to keep in mind that the the ATP car only had a downpipe and the atp intercooler during testing, where as the cobb intercooler is slightly bigger and also has an intake vs the stock airbox.

I'm not as savvy as some of you guys and I daily drive my cars very hard. I roll race anyone that tries to mess with me on the hwy which in san antonio is frequent. Just the other day a soccer mom jerked into the other lane in a audi SQ5 (after firing in the exhaust) and tried to ricer flyby my 5.0 which by the way, I totally didn't let that happen, but man did that SUV pull from a 30 roll. Anways, I've heard wmi can be tricky and if it fails dangerous. I'd rather run e85 like I did on my c6z06, but these 12 gallon gas tanks are so tiny I'll be running from station to station. I wonder if JMS powermax bap can get more fuelling out of the stock pump like on the 5.0. Is the injector the bottleneck or the pump? Still so much to learn about these little cars :\

 

[RAAMaudio]

With all my supporting mods, suspension, brakes, 225 race tires on 9" wide wheels, etc....I do not need more than 275WHP to be very fast on a road race track, I will not have the aero mods or safety mods to use much more power properly. I will be able to use 300WHP on some tracks, maybe a bit more.

I am considering the aero mods and more rubber up front but not sure I really want the car to be that much faster on high speed corners, it is faster than most would already imagine and those are the most dangerous parts of being on a road race track in most situations at least.

The cost of race fuel when you are getting 7-8MPG and putting on as much as 200 miles in two days could be $250 or more and that is not the expensive race fuel, ouch!

WMI would be far less costly obviously but more added weight so if I go that route it will be trunk mounted like Rod's system but in the tire well since no spare tire will be carried. I can just use it for racing and leave it off the rest of the time so that for me is a solution I can live with.

I really want to see the numbers when finally released on Rod's tune, it will be a bit different than mine but probably not by much.

 

[RAAMaudio]

That GTX tune was not complete and it sure shows on the less than stellar torque curve.

 

[pwnall1337]

That GTX tune was not complete and it sure shows on the less than stellar torque curve.

Yeah I'm pretty dead set on the GTX, I hope DHM makes a manifold for the GTX. If not I'll have to roll with the adapter.

 

[Sourskittle]

Russ is def building a GTX manifold as far as i know.
With Ethanol, I think eth and wmi, lol. I'm running both
Wmi can have some nasty cost if it fails, but the AEM kit is pretty dang safe, wish I had one.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Yes, he is building a GTX manifold off the EFR I hired DHM to make for us

It could possibly end up being the better turbo on a proper manifold, we will know before to long I hope.

Either the EFR or GTX will require WMI, race fuel or more fuel, especially if running E30+ to maximize the power potential.

Then we start getting to wonder how the bottom end will hold up and for drag racers, the trans and axles.

I am with SS, LSD is going to be pretty much mandatory if you really want to use either of these turbos properly.

 

[pwnall1337]

Mountune sells injectors for the focus st. I emailed asking them to offer a fuel pump and injector upgrade kit. Car has been out almost 2 years now so fuel upgrades shouldn't be an issue. We need more tuning support.

 

[Young L]

the exhance rate is $1.06 per euro,

Thanks

not to burst your bubble but if you are gettin it from a british company its Pounds not Euro and as of this morning here in Germany USD 1$ =.66 pounds and USD$1 =.94euro