FORD cannot even get gauges to work right??? Overheated, likely blown head gasket but also cracked head......

[RAAMaudio]

OK, blowing off a bit of steam here, literally.

20k miles, big radiator and real oil cooler installed since 293 miles on the car, fully ducted, located for the least overlap so the IC blows less air to the radiator, oil cooler 40% flows beside radiator, grill opened up, DHM bumper beam, likely the best cooled ST on the street and never got hot once that I know of except what can I believe now.....?

12k miles since last upgrades, new SS hose clamp on custom mini water manifold to feed turbo and WG decided to come loose though has been checked several times since installed, water leak could of been going on before trip but never heard or smelled anything and dash coolant gauge never went up, coolant level always good, no idiot light, beeping, etc and oil temp on AP always looked great so not sure when this started.

300 mile round trip, 60 degree weather, just cruising with my lovely lady and doggies to check out a town her son might move to....no big passes to climb, barely used boost....again no warnings of any sort, just cruising along at 65-70 MPH and heard a funny buzzing sound that seemed to be inside the dash, never had it before but seemed no big deal so kept on going.

Pulled into rest stop and smelled like a hot engine but thought it was car next to use, old beaters tend to smell often enough....pulled out and no more noise for the next 50 miles or so then started smelling for the first time....odd.....temp gauges looked just fine the whole time up to this point.

Got off the road, popped the hood, water level below window in site glass on Mishimoto coolant tank, hmmm, rather odd but then found coolant leak due to loose hose clamp. Tightened the clamp, added about a gallon of water from jug we had for the trip(normally I would never put anything but distilled water in of course) started up and hit the road watching gauges carefully, all seemed fine.

Started making the buzzing sound again, gauges still looked normal, started smelling coolant much more strongly, damn......Pulled over with engine running, coolant leaking like mad from water pump....sheat!

Temp gauges still looked normal, no warning light, beep, no limp mode ever.....

Put in more water, made it home after two more stops to top it off which is really fun making sure to not get burned.....

Ordered water pump, replaced it and all the hose clamps with new SS ones, all new coolant and distilled water, car started up and ran just great, no leaks, temps just fine....Drove to town, parked, got back in 15 minutes later and had a very rough idle for 10 seconds or so, odd but not overly worried, did that a couple more times then seemed just fine for the next few days, again never any temp issues shown, no more smells....etc....all looks like I got away without a blown head gasket, cracked or warped head, etc....

I did a good look at the engine and found no evidence of a cracked head as I have read about here, the oil fire causing one.

I saw no water in the oil or oil in the water either but perhaps synthetic oil and water can mix without showing like it does with dino oil???

Yesterday went to Reno, 50 miles each way, picked up materials for RV skirting, misc other stuff, headed home then started smelling again but lightly so pulled over, low coolant level in tank, added 3/4 gallon of 50/50 mix.....car started up rough again but ran just fine. Added water temp to AP and carefully cruising for the least load and heat generated, 77 degree day, back home....

Water went to 230 then back to 200, oil at 200 then up to 230, both going back and forth but sometimes both up and down to 225-110 range....pulled over, added more fluid, nothing leaking.....carefully finished trip home, temps kept jumping around and far quicker than physically possible.

I am down to one car until this one sells, have been very easy on the car as seldom use the power it has, best cooling setup I have seen done on a street driven ST, never an issue before, would not of been one if the F'ing gauges, light, warning beep, limp mode, etc had worked, just fix a simple hose clamp issue......

I would of done much deeper diagnostics on the car if I had a real place to work on it but the damage was already done on the first trip but I just did not know it so the end result would of been the same except I would of fixed it by now instead of looking for parts.

I have modded cars for 50 years and never seen such BS as this car has but I have almost always had Datsuns, Toyotas or pure race cars with nothing stock. (i had a street Vette, very very modded, modded Forester XT and several Duramax trucks which are pretty decent but my Tundra was far better built and all were better than the ST)

I am not very impressed with FORD right now, to say the least, my first and last one, ever, going back to Toyota for good.....

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I might just buy an engine from a yard without the head crack issue I believe most will show by oil leaking, etc...and swap it out instead of pulling the head off.

I might not be aware of some info in regard to buying a used engine, I believe I read where somebody bought a bad one so any help here would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks for "listening"
Rick
775-600-5718

 

[Truth in Ruin]

So sorry to hear this. You’ve helped me greatly; I’d like to return the favor. Let me know if you need anything.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yes, this is REALLY devastating news!

But I do find it hard to believe that in that very heavily modded car, you did not have an actual REAL LIVE standalone coolant AND oil temp gauge.
(NOT that this lets Ford off of the hook at all for LOUSY gauges/warning lights/etc., especially with all you have done to prevent this from ever happening, but, I STILL will walk everywhere i have to go before I would even think of buying ONE Toyota, )

 

[green_henry]

Yes, this is REALLY devastating news!

But I do find it hard to believe that in that very heavily modded car, you did not have an actual REAL LIVE standalone coolant AND oil temp gauge.
(NOT that this lets Ford off of the hook at all for LOUSY gauges/warning lights/etc., especially with all you have done to prevent this from ever happening, but, I STILL will walk everywhere i have to go before I would even think of buying ONE Toyota, )

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but would the gauges on a Cobb AP have caught the issue or would the additional gauges in question also require different sensors?

 

[XuperXero]

Sounds like my scenario... Water pump will fail from overheating just the slightest bit. Virtually no safety margin for reaction or proactive prevention. Ford gauge is also incredibly inaccurate and I always use Torque App now out of paranoia.

http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/14665-PSA-Coolant-LEAK-(Possibly-recall-related)

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have gauges I was going to install but the car never overheated due all the mods I had done so no fear of it doing so and figured the stock temp gauge, etc would give me ample warning and should of ad there is no really good place for gauges unless you like A pillars which I do not care for. Since I only tracked the car twice and had no plans do so so again I stopped modding it. The problem was a major fault with the cars sensors not what I did to it though I was the one that used the seemingly high grade hose clamp that failed the car should still have reacted properly to the heat generated as it has for the others that have overheated so I expected mine to behave the same.
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Originally I planned to buy a spare engine and maybe even build one at some point but that was before becoming fully retired and realizing I had other things I wanted to do with my sweet lady and not spend so much time and money on cars as I have done most of my life. My attitude on cars has always been to be prepared to pay when you play so replacing and engine is not a big deal, done so a few times over the decades. This just came at a bad time as getting ready for winter in the RV, only one vehicle at the moment, and selling the car, going to drop the price and sell as is or fix it and sell for whatever I can get then buy a Toyota, probably two.

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Another issue, tight packaging had to be worked with by engineers but having to pull the alternator, engine mount, timing cover, tensioner.....hell of a lot of work to replace the pump that is easily damaged by overheating.

Add it all up, cracked heads from over heating, water pumps going out from overheating, gauges, lights, limp mode failing to function, radiator to small on likely all vehicles with this engine, all cooling related issues....how long has Ford been building cars and they cannot get this right?????

They have quite a history of other vehicle problems like the years the 7.3 diesel was a great engine but came with a crap transmission with thousands of failures, then finally, much better transmission for part of one year with the 7.3 then the slapped the doomed 6.0 in and sold that pile of crap for years.

Then look at the RS fiasco they released, how stupid can a company be, very it seems!

 

[Ronbo]

What is the RS fiasco?


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[RAAMaudio]

Blown engines like a member here had happen with just an aftermarket BOV, warranty denied, 2k miles on the car....I have heard of hundreds of engines blown and not heard of any being taken care of and a stock engine replaced would still have the same issues. I have not dug into this because I have no reason to as it was from a very good source I trust.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but would the gauges on a Cobb AP have caught the issue or would the additional gauges in question also require different sensors?

The AP would tell you the coolant temp directly from the sensor, but the oil temp is calculated from an algorithm, and is not the most accurate thing in the world.
The main problem is that some people (like me) do not want to leave/have the AP in the car at all times (for whatever reasons; break-in/theft worries, heat damage, etc.), whereas if one has permanent aftermarket gauges installed, there's no worries about those issues, and the readings are taken directly from their dedicated sensors.

 

[M-Sport fan]

BTW; your (WAY TOO) much deified Toyota may be better than most, still (despite them losing a good deal of their supposed "reliability/indestructibility" in recent times), but they are NOT the outright "infallible epitome of perfection" which you, and much of the rest of the general US public make them out to be NO MATTER WHAT they do.

In any case, I am SOOOO HAPPY that Ford is kicking their ASS, coming and going, in the WRC right now!!!

 

[RAAMaudio]

No car is perfect nor ever will be but some are damn good but have known weaknesses and some are just not good at all, Toyota is not as good as it was but still likely the best.
I am actually looking at a couple of Volvo cars but also doing the research to find the known issues and fixes they require to make them very reliable. Many euro cars are damn good but have issues in some models or in general so you can still have one if you wish as long as take care of everything and expect long term reliability. Ford has come along way but still do stupid sheat regularly which makes no sense at all.

I drove an 04 Matrix last year with 550k miles on it that ran and drove great, solid as they felt new(I bought the 3rd one sold in the US to build into an autocross, audio comp, SEMA and CES business project so know the car well). It had the regular things like brakes, tires, wiper blades done as needed, engine mounts and trans rebuilt only major repairs ever. It would have around 625k miles on it now if not for being totaled by my buddies friend he loaned it to.
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WRC has nothing to do with a brand name, a shell with the right attributes that anyone with the money can buy the parts and hire the talent to make it a winning chassis which is what it is really about. Ford as a company might be running a winning team but the Fiesta body has little to do with it.
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There is a great deal to love about this little car and I do love mine but do not like it sometimes.

 

[M-Sport fan]

The WRC has a lot more to do with PRODUCTION based cars, (being driven on REAL roads, and fire roads, good and bad, NOT glass smooth, perfect surface road courses) than most other racing series, save for the SCCA /Touring, or older /Showroom Stock classes.

Also, Ford themselves do not monetarily support the M-Sport World Rally Team at all, whereas your deity Toyota DOES pour many hundred million$$ of their Camry/Corolla (undeserved profit) bucks into the Gazoo Racing WRT, and it IS an actual official Toyota 'works' rally team.

So, ALL THE MORE power to M-Sport for laying waste to the 'all powerful juggernaut' Nippon Giant in this year's WRC!

 

[M-Sport fan]

The WRC has a lot more to do with PRODUCTION based cars, (being driven on REAL roads, and fire roads, good and bad, NOT glass smooth, perfect surface road courses) than most other racing series, save for the SCCA /Touring, or older /Showroom Stock classes.

Also, Ford themselves do not monetarily support the M-Sport World Rally Team at all, whereas your deity Toyota DOES pour many hundred million$$ of their Camry/Corolla (undeserved profit) bucks into the Gazoo Racing WRT, and it IS an actual official Toyota 'works' rally team.

So, ALL THE MORE power to M-Sport for laying waste to the 'all powerful juggernaut' Nippon Giant in this year's WRC!

They ALL do some "stupid sheat" at least some of the time, yup, even including Saint Toyoda.
Ya wanna hear about the absolute ignoramus created throttle cable connections which could ever be thought up by an imbecile, on my old GTIs??

 

[RAAMaudio]

Thanks for the enlightenment on who funds the teams, I used to pay a great deal more attention but no longer into racing as I was most of my life and never watch TV, listen to the radio, read magazines, etc....I did not know Toyota was doing anything in that sport at all.

There is still only little production DNA in a WRC car so their Fiesta cars are not really direct comparison or even close to a production car.

The fact M-Sport is taking on the big brands and winning that certainly is something very, very impressive to say the least

 

[me32]

Sorry to hear about all your issues. You have been great to this community. But to say that ford is not as good as Toyota is crap. I've seen the junk toyota makes these days. The rattle and have cheap interior that fall apart before 100k. Trust me i had one. I hope down the road after You get it all fixed you'll rethink your opinion about ford.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have not owned, driven or ridden in a Toyota newer than 07 which I had a new Tundra LTD with the 5.7 and it was a damn fine truck, later I had an 07 4.7 4runner and it was incredibly solid and reliable as could be. I have heard Toyota was lowering their qualilty to the other brands standards which if true and may be is rather unfortunate. I also know Ford has upped the anti quite a bit but my 07 Duramax dually was no where near the build quality of either of those Toyota vehicles from the same year. Ford still had the nightmare 6.0.

I wanted a new dually in 2012 so drove the F350, 3500 Dodge and GM which had the worst interior but best engine, trans and front suspension for ride and handling and bought it and loved it even though the door card broke at 1 month past warranty, $450 for a new one and other crap that should not happen in 36000 miles but the chassis was damn well perfect.

Unlike many I am not brand loyal, I have had a Willies, VW bugs, Toyota's, GM's from a 53 Chevy 5 window to C5 and C6 Vettes, 3 duramax trucks, Subaru, Nissan and Datsuns, BMWs...... I am what will this vehicle do for me and will it be reliable first and foremost even if I am modding it a great deal. After the millions upon millions of vehicles built by Ford a car with 20k miles on it had issues with something simple like a temp gauge and the nannies that go with it showing a false reading and not protecting the engine leading to a blown head gasket and likely cracked head. I had done all the cooling mods to prevent it overheating in extreme situations and it simply would not overheat unless something went wrong that should of been easy to see.

I just talked to a buddy that knows and incredible amount about most all vehicles and said I was looking at a Volvo which he said he has owned and loved but make sure it was pre Ford.


I still love the car overall but not happy about what happened, I expected to blow an engine at some time due to power levels, not a poorly designed monitoring system.

 

[RAAMaudio]

OK, Car has been sitting for months now due to other priorities but I need to finally fix it and considering pulling the head to see if any chance just a head gasket will do the job...not likely but I read it takes quite a few specialty tools to do the work so might not be worth it but easier for me being full time in an RV I can do that where is is parked behind it instead of renting shop space.

I will search, have a bit, looking for info on the swap, have any help to offer it will be much appreciated

Thanks,
Rick

 

[M-Sport fan]

There is still only little production DNA in a WRC car so their Fiesta cars are not really direct comparison or even close to a production car.

I know this post is ancient, but sorry, but I am going to have to disagree here.

The FIA requires the WRC cars (and the lower classes even more so) to use the whole unibody, sans any unnecessary brackets/mounts, as well as the engine block (which yes, they CAN 'tilt' a few degrees fore or aft for weight distribution/fitment reasons), the hood, hatch, doors and panels yes, are made of carbon fiber/kevlar, but the rest HAS TO BE the factory STEEL, albeit yes, FULLY seam/stitch welded.

Despite their aero 'add-ons', and big box flares (and yes, the paddle-shifted sequential gearboxes and added rear drive/requisite subframes to carry such), they DO closely resemble their street/road going counterparts, which is one of the reasons the manufacturers ever do invest into the WRC teams.

They are a HELLUVA LOT closer to street cars than ANY; NASCAR, DTM, Formula car, etc., and although yes, not 'street legal' (mainly because of emissions even though they DO have to have a catcon fitted, and because of the full cage and stand alone ECU) in this (or most other) countries, they DO have to carry most street functional equipment; functioning headlights, tailights, turn signals, wipers, and even spare tire(s) and jack.

This IS NOT the old Group B days, when 'ANYthing goes', and they had full space frames/carbon monocoques, ALL carbon fiber bodies which one could barely tell (IF AT ALL!) was supposed to be based on a street car model, whole engine placements/positions in the car changed, and ran unrestricted turbos on exotic/esoteric fuels!

 

[RAAMaudio]

I just do not agree You end up only one step away from building a tube frame chassis at that point. I have built race cars to such levels, it would be easier in many ways to just build the chassis and slap on a composite body then end up with a far more repairable car. Stripping a car down, taking off all the weight one can legally do, stitch welding the whole thing, very time consuming....even a moderate crash can make you have to start all over.

Take the same pile of parts and same quality team and one can build pretty much the same car on any similar chassis from other manf....in my opinion....not to say the results using our great little chassis are not incredible, of course they are but I believe it is more the team than the chassis.

I know the cars are far more stock oriented in lower classes and they should be.

 

[captainmorbid]

I just do not agree You end up only one step away from building a tube frame chassis at that point. I have built race cars to such levels, it would be easier in many ways to just build the chassis and slap on a composite body then end up with a far more repairable car. Stripping a car down, taking off all the weight one can legally do, stitch welding the whole thing, very time consuming....even a moderate crash can make you have to start all over.

Take the same pile of parts and same quality team and one can build pretty much the same car on any similar chassis from other manf....in my opinion....not to say the results using our great little chassis are not incredible, of course they are but I believe it is more the team than the chassis.

I know the cars are far more stock oriented in lower classes and they should be.

Except, WRC cars must carry an insurance disk in Europe. They are street legal. Part of WRC requirements are that the car takes public roads from one stage to another, no trailering.

A fully built race car that was never based on a production chassis would never be allowed to legally enter any Rally event(at least in WRC).

Some people’s FiSTs on here actually put down MORE power than the WRC cars are allowed... mind blowing!

The chassis definitely plays a role, though as always, the team trumps the car(mostly)...


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