Fiesta ST vs Veloster N

[milkman42]

thanks for posting. I'm also really interested by the N. The reviews have been positive and it seems like a similar recipe to what makes the fiesta fun, although it is heavier. seems to have a lot of character. Only a test drive will clear this up for certain. i love all the adjustable options that you highlighted which would make it great for a daily. i think it looks... interesting lol. i was at the pittsburgh auto show this weekend and they had a veloster turbo (no N). i really liked the look, it's just so different and stands out among all the other bland cars. i think its looks are appealing for a different reason than an audi, bmw, jag looks good.

that said, i have a few concerns. Resale value - i'm sure it'll hurt. this will make it a great used deal though, like the fiesta is now. also the size could be an issue for me. my next car will probably need to be more kid-friendly. although the N seems small from the outside i tried sitting behind myself (i'm 6' tall, 160lb) in the backseat behind the driver and it seemed ok - similar to the fiesta but headroom is cut a bit because of the roofline. still though, it's less practical than even the fiesta from my first quick look.

if my fiesta got totaled tomorrow i'd buy another one, used. and like you i'd get a color i really wanted (my first was race red, now magnetic metallic - i miss the red one every day haha). the N when new at 30k USD is just a bit much for me now with no real equity in the fiesta. in a few years when i have 8-10k equity i'll definitely check it out along with a used RS and the type R. the N seats also don't look as special as the recaro's and i don't think the US spec has heated seats.

please do post back here if you test drive one and tell us your thoughts!


edit: the 3 people i was at the auto show with (including my fiance) hated it and it thought i was crazy so there's that haha

 

[Quickone]

Will a FIST with mods and tune really be as fast in a straight line as a Veloster N? I had a Mazdasped 3 (stock) for almost 5 years, which I considered fast- considerably faster than my stock FIST in a straight line, by my comparison having owned both. I was thinking you could get the acceleration maybe down to 6.2 or so to 60 in the FIST but under 6 seems a stretch.

 

[jeff]

Will a FIST with mods and tune really be as fast in a straight line as a Veloster N? I had a Mazdasped 3 (stock) for almost 5 years, which I considered fast- considerably faster than my stock FIST in a straight line, by my comparison having owned both. I was thinking you could get the acceleration maybe down to 6.2 or so to 60 in the FIST but under 6 seems a stretch.

Not the best comparison due to track conditions/abuse of car/tires/perfect driver, but Laird Performance sent a Puma X47R Fiesta to 60 in 4.03 seconds and 1/4 miled in 12.06 sec. Just a few thousand bucks in mods.

Look at 1:21 and 1:28.

[video=youtube;bY-28sq8O5k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY-28sq8O5k[/video]

 

[Kalter]

Not the best comparison due to track conditions/abuse of car/tires/perfect driver, but Laird Performance sent a Puma X47R Fiesta to 60 in 4.03 seconds and 1/4 miled in 12.06 sec. Just a few thousand bucks in mods.

Still, this answers one of my questions: what is the 0-60 times of a 280-300HP FiST (I don't know his HP). Under 5 seconds is hella fast. The N is between 5.2 and 5.8 (I'm seeing the two different numbers on reviews) and considering stock FiST is around 6.7-6.9, that's a nice improvement for barely 100HP.

So I guess that aiming for low 5s with an hybrid is very possible.

 

[jeff]

Still, this answers one of my questions: what is the 0-60 times of a 280-300HP FiST (I don't know his HP). Under 5 seconds is hella fast. The N is between 5.2 and 5.8 (I'm seeing the two different numbers on reviews) and considering stock FiST is around 6.7-6.9, that's a nice improvement for barely 100HP.

So I guess that aiming for low 5s with an hybrid is very possible.

This is a thing I have discussed with many.

My assumption is that the Laird car has all the right stuff on it - good tires, good driver, race gas mix, maybe aux fuel. The 4.03 seconds to 60 is probably with the car at 320ish HP which is about the max for the X47R in any situation, if it has ALL the upgrades and best fuel (catless DP, aux fuel, slicks, etc.).

Still in the real word that 4.03 is deceiving as is the 5.2 for the N. I'd say in the real world a 300whp Fiesta like mine could do 0-60 in around 5 seconds flat on the street, but again that's assuming the perfect driver is beating the clutch/transmission to get that sort of time. I can get to 60 in 2nd gear somewhere in the 5s myself, but I have no desire to beat the car in order to see just how low I can get it.

That said, the 0-60 is always confusing and not the best measure of how fast/good a car is. That's why they started the whole 5-60 "street start" measurement, so that a clutch dump isn't necessary. But honestly I don't think that's the best measure, and you're not gonna dump the clutch and zip to 60 on a test drive with a salesman in the passenger seat.

A better measurement IMHO for real world driving is the 10-20mph "I'm in 2nd gear and I hammer it" test. Yesterday I pulled on a newer (and loud/modded) Mustang GT from about 20mph onward. Same with an STi. So the car is fast. I think the rolling start is the way to get the feel. If an STi or Mustang GT can do 0-60 in under 5 seconds and my car at 304whp can pull on them in 2nd/3rd gear, that tells me I'm pretty quick no matter what my "official" 0-60 time might be.

Still though, back the to the N, 5.2 is quick and beside all the numbers I consistently see the reviewers talk about how special it is, which is why I'm so positive about it.

 

[Dpro]

Arent roadcourses a series of drag races connected by corners?!



Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

Lol seriously yoU think that?

 

[RubenZZZ]

Lol seriously yoU think that?

Not literally.

But no driver is going to cruise out of corner after coming in hot and clipping the perfect apex/line.

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[Dpro]

Not literally.

But no driver is going to cruise out of corner after coming in hot and clipping the perfect apex/line.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

On a road course one carries a fair amount of momentum. Granted a long straight requires HP to keep you rolling. Not so much TQ. Off the line from a dead start is where TQ is handy as well as coming out of slower corners. Yet its not even close to a drag race situation. The only time you see a drag race situation is at the start of a race on a road course depending on the series.

The other thing to realize is one can win on a road course without having the most powerful car. Datsun aka Nissan proved this in the early 70’s with the 510. Against the BMW’s and Alfa’s the Alfa had the power the BMW had the braking but when it came to the cornering the 510 ruled over them. It won championships in IMSA ans SCCA that way for 3 years in a row.

A good driver amd a great handling car can catch a lot of more power vehicles in the corners and wind up running faster lap times because of it. HP is great but people forgot sometimes that it can change the dynanic in a corner.

Our FiST’s are very much FWD modern day 510’s in that sense. Oh and ya they ran 510’s in Pro Rally and one there as well.

 

[FiSTerMr]

The weird door design also means less body structural rigidity.

The FiST wins out on weight. To me, that's why I bought the car.

On paper, the FiST sounds lacking with the torsion bar rear and non-lsd diff.... but none of that seems to matter much after getting behind the wheel.

 

[Mikey456]

Is it just the asymmetrical 3 doors that bothers you or the overall styling? I don't mind the 3 doors, but I like what they did for the styling of the N overall. Those 3 doors though are extremely polarizing, I completely understand!

Both. I prefer the more traditional looking hatchback design of the Gti’s, Mini’s etc. The veloster’s design reminds me of the “backward hat” Mini coupe of couple of years ago.
There is also a YouTube video comparing the Focus RS to the Veloster N. The reviewer had a family and mentioned that the rear seat space was limited and preferred the awd in the Canadian snow. I don’t know if that applies to you.

 

[jeff]

On paper, the FiST sounds lacking....but none of that seems to matter much after getting behind the wheel.

Best/most relevant thing said here so far.

 

[LilFie-st-y]

I have always been a fan of both cars. I actually just recently bought my FiST after test driving the 2019 2019 Hyundai Veloster R-Spec. One of the hardest decisions I have ever had to make when I finally came down to wanting to finally buy one. The new Veloster models are fantastic honestly and come with plenty of power out of the box and will beat a Fiesta ST hands down and still has an exciting to drive factor similar to the Fiesta just not as much.
Why I went with the Fiesta ST was because more mods, ST community and support is bigger and better, it is more exciting to drive and I already have a go fast car for the track/ street if I need to bring that out. ST just felt alot more like an enthusiast's car and the R-Spec felt like a mix between FiST and a FoST but not as exciting.
The Veloster N though is sopossed to be 10x better than the R-Spec though on all spectrums so if one hits a lot near me i'm definitely gonna consider trading no thoughts before hand just depends and what price I can get. it for OTD.

 

[Kalter]

This is a thing I have discussed with many.

My assumption is that the Laird car has all the right stuff on it - good tires, good driver, race gas mix, maybe aux fuel. The 4.03 seconds to 60 is probably with the car at 320ish HP which is about the max for the X47R in any situation, if it has ALL the upgrades and best fuel (catless DP, aux fuel, slicks, etc.).

Still in the real word that 4.03 is deceiving as is the 5.2 for the N. I'd say in the real world a 300whp Fiesta like mine could do 0-60 in around 5 seconds flat on the street, but again that's assuming the perfect driver is beating the clutch/transmission to get that sort of time. I can get to 60 in 2nd gear somewhere in the 5s myself, but I have no desire to beat the car in order to see just how low I can get it.

That said, the 0-60 is always confusing and not the best measure of how fast/good a car is. That's why they started the whole 5-60 "street start" measurement, so that a clutch dump isn't necessary. But honestly I don't think that's the best measure, and you're not gonna dump the clutch and zip to 60 on a test drive with a salesman in the passenger seat.

A better measurement IMHO for real world driving is the 10-20mph "I'm in 2nd gear and I hammer it" test. Yesterday I pulled on a newer (and loud/modded) Mustang GT from about 20mph onward. Same with an STi. So the car is fast. I think the rolling start is the way to get the feel. If an STi or Mustang GT can do 0-60 in under 5 seconds and my car at 304whp can pull on them in 2nd/3rd gear, that tells me I'm pretty quick no matter what my "official" 0-60 time might be.

Still though, back the to the N, 5.2 is quick and beside all the numbers I consistently see the reviewers talk about how special it is, which is why I'm so positive about it.

I agree with you regarding the 0-60, it's misleading in that you need perfect conditions to reach it. I personally have not been able to hit under 7 seconds with my stage 2 while stock is supposed to do at least 6.9. I don't really give a fuck because I like how it feels.

It's a good comparison though when comparing stock numbers. 5.2 is definitely faster than 6.9, so even a shitty driver like me would be faster in the N! It just gives an idea of where it sits.

Regarding you pulling on STi and GT, we all know that a FWD from a dig fucking sucks, so those two cars have huge advantage from a dig, but afterwards you have your traction and you're in boost so it's all about power from there.

The most important measure I feel is the overtaking factor. I have found this for the FiST:
60-100 km/h through gears (sec):3.4
80-120 km/h through gears (sec):4.3
100-180 km/h through gears (sec):15.1
40-70 mph through gears (sec):4.5
50-90 mph through gears (sec):8.1
Source

And I have found those for the N:
60-100 km/h through gears (sec):2.9
80-120 km/h through gears (sec):3.7
100-180 km/h through gears (sec):11
40-70 mph through gears (sec):3.9
50-90 mph through gears (sec):6.8
Source

Apparently, stock, they are pretty fucking close. Much closer than I anticipated. An hybrid would eat it easily I feel.

 

[danbfree]

Both. I prefer the more traditional looking hatchback design of the Gti’s, Mini’s etc. The veloster’s design reminds me of the “backward hat” Mini coupe of couple of years ago.
There is also a YouTube video comparing the Focus RS to the Veloster N. The reviewer had a family and mentioned that the rear seat space was limited and preferred the awd in the Canadian snow. I don’t know if that applies to you.

This is the problem, they don't offer the N treatment on their 5 door here (Elantra GT) while they do offer it Europe in the same car called the i30 there... Maybe they will let Kia do it on the new Forte5 for the NA market instead.

Also, anything-60 is going to show our car as less competitive than it is due to the low final gearing and artificially low redline set with the stock turbo requiring 2 shifts instead of just 1 to hit 60. Early on in ownership once I got an AP I manually set redline to 7200 and was able to bounce off of it and got a 6.4, even with a horrible launch and no top end. I won't be doing that again... Only 1/4 mile and rolling 20-80 type times really show how our cars are actually decently quick.

 

[XanRules]

I haven't followed the thread, but I had an original, 2012 Veloster, and it was the single worst vehicle I've ever owned. This wasn't enough to sour me on Hyundai - every company has lemons, especially the first year of a brand new model - but Hyundai corporate were nightmares during the lemon law proceedings, constantly "losing" service records that I requested, changing their stories, and all manner of other unsavory stuff that I've blocked from my memory. That alone was enough for me to never want to do business with Hyundai again.

 

[vixenlotus]

I am also seriously considering this to replace my ST. My issue with the st is the build quality and all the problems i have been having with it (the list is long) most recently is a rust problem. The Veloster is just a much better built car as i see it.

 

[danbfree]

I am also seriously considering this to replace my ST. My issue with the st is the build quality and all the problems i have been having with it (the list is long) most recently is a rust problem. The Veloster is just a much better built car as i see it.

Interesting! I had a '16 Kia Forte5 SX and indeed it was amazing build quality but had horrible suspension and factory tune that was overly rich and not great mileage so I traded it in... but with my FiST I'm actually pleasantly surprised on its quality, no complaints at all in 18k on my '17. Anyway, after having Audi's prior I do miss AWD but I'm also considering these new Mazda3'S with AWD but also hoping Hyundai let's Kia do the N treatment on the new Forte 5.

 

[FiSTerMr]

....most recently is a rust problem....

Can you elaborate on this issue, thanks!

 

[Kalter]

Can you elaborate on this issue, thanks!

Get it sprayed because Ford paint fucking sucks. It's part of why if I buy a new one it will stay in the garage all winter. I got a part repainted on my current car, the rust was back before the winter. Gotta watch out for those rubbing panels too. The rear fenders are too close to the rear bumper, paint get scratched and rust gets in. Put some automotive tape there.

There have been worst cars for rust mind you, but it seems that since Ford changed for a more eco friendly paint around 2013-2014, it became really bad. The 2012 SE I had with more than 100k KM had rock chips, but no rust at all and never sprayed. My 2014 ST got rust on the hatch and the rear fenders with less than 50k KM. Both were doing the same commute, so very similar conditions.

 

[Intuit]

There's something about the styling with regard to Velocitor N and Civic R that's a real turn-off.

Rear end could be spiced-up a bit as far as lighting on the FiST, but for the sides and front, they just nailed it with the FoST RS, FiST and FoST. (in order of best to less best) FoSTs are too wide/big for my preferences/tastes though. FiST just fits... it's just right.

I don't have any "weird" tastes like riser wings. V-N and C-TR just have a weird and kooky appearance.