EPAS Failing?

[ctrujillo99]

so i’ve posted before and for those who haven’t seen. everything is new under the car. inner/outter tie rods, sway bar bushing and end links, control arms and ball joints. front and rear whoosh centering kit. i’ve have multiple alignments before all that and now 3 after all new parts. my car doesn’t feel correct and the answer i’m getting from shops is “your alignment is spot on and can’t find anything loose or broken/bent. might be your tires”. my alignment looks spot on but my steering wheel isn’t straight. when I reverse and out wheel straight the back up camera lines aren't centered. steering doesn’t return to center properly after turning. Torque steer is real bad even after installing RMM AND PSMM. it’s very uncontrollable under load but off throttle it pulls left. just left shop this morning and said everything checks out and your tires are too much of a low profile for our streets. btw they are the stock bridgestone potenzas. forscan doesn’t give me option to reset or disable drift pull compensation like others have said to try. forscan showed a dtc code u2100 under the pscm. idk what to do now.

 

[Intuit]

Tight, lowered suspension on a short wheel base, this vehicle is EXTREMELY sensitive to the smallest of changes.

I say the following to suggest that, might want to put the front end up in the air and do some measuring between left/right; manual push/pull of the tires while eyeballing the steering wheel.

Running into similar issues after my PARKED car was side-swiped/hit/rammed partially off the street by an Amazon package van/truck. (of course kept going) The wheels were straight when it was parked. It was cranked all the way over and that tire blown-out after being hit.

Felt like it was driving on the sidewall and the alignment shop printout confirmed it. They replaced the suspension on both sides, inner/outer tie rod end on one side then said it was good. Said he had a guy that owns a Mini drive it and gave accolades on the handling.

Didn't even leave the parking lot before I knew it wasn't right. Left vs right handling as different. Though the camber/caster might equal enough straight, it was clearly different when turned-in on left vs right. Talked to the guy who said it needs time for the new suspension to settle. BS because it rubs on one side, not on the other and it didn't do this before. That's besides the different handling characteristics. The guy's insistence on "letting the new suspensions settle then bring it back" after pointing out the undeniable evidence of a problem just told me "I don't want to deal with this." So goes the old saying, "If you want it done right..."

Took it home, put it up in the air and found a metric ass-ton of play in the steering gear.
Did they not check after replacing the inner/outer tie-rod? Certainly they noticed this. On a different car, this might be acceptable.
Per manual the sub-frame must be dropped to replace the steering gear. (instructions are attached in thread below)
I ordered the parts from the dealer yesterday and will be installing them sometime in the next month or few; weather depending.
There may (or may not) be other things going on but will just have to take it one thing at a time.

https://www.fiestastforum.com/threa...pension-steering-damage-warning-inside.32995/

 

[Intuit]

BTW, all of the power assist is in the steering column. The steering gear is just a regular old manual rack and pinion gear. No hydraulics, no electricity. I'm hoping they did not damage the steering column where the EPAS components are located. That's some REAL money.

 

[ctrujillo99]

BTW, all of the power assist is in the steering column. The steering gear is just a regular old manual rack and pinion gear. No hydraulics, no electricity. I'm hoping they did not damage the steering column where the EPAS components are located. That's some REAL money.

I will look further into the steering gear when I can. seriously this car was so good until I one day got an alignment after getting tires put on. ever since that first alignment it’s been such a headache

 

[ctrujillo99]

I will look further into the steering gear when I can. seriously this car was so good until I one day got an alignment after getting tires put on. ever since that first alignment it’s been such a headache

when you say steering gear you mean the steering rack, correct?

 

[Intuit]

Yes, steering rack.

Sounds like they goofed on the alignment and the steering wheel wasn't properly centered.

dtc code u2100

Did you look up what this code was?

 

[ctrujillo99]

Yes, steering rack.

Sounds like they goofed on the alignment and the steering wheel wasn't properly centered.


Did you look up what this code was?

it seems to have something to do with reprogramming in forscan. I won’t mess with it. although I have already thought of replacing the steering rack. maybe i’ll get that done first and if problems persist I will bring into ford and see what they think about the pscm.

 

[Intuit]

I've seen some folks that just throw parts at a vehicle. Don't be one of them folks. Please test and verify before replacing the steering rack.

Okay there area a LOT of complete time wasters when it comes to looking up codes.
https://www.dtcdecode.com/Ford/U2100
I have bookmarked the above website as being straight to the point and no nonsense. (at least in this case)

 

[foodtruck]

I'm curious to know the answer, when you find it... I had some recent steering problems that sound vaguely the same and they went away after recent realignment (toe was off) but I've heard opinions that toe by itself wouldn't cause the symptoms I was describing.

my alignment looks spot on but my steering wheel isn’t straight.

If they haven't set the steering wheel straight before the alignment, it can be off even tho the combined left/right alignment is "correct".

 

[Intuit]

I'm curious to know the answer, when you find it... I had some recent steering problems that sound vaguely the same and they went away after recent realignment (toe was off) but I've heard opinions that toe by itself wouldn't cause the symptoms I was describing.


If they haven't set the steering wheel straight before the alignment, it can be off even tho the combined left/right alignment is "correct".

Exactly.
EPAS is all in the steering column. It has no sensors beyond that column and has no clue whether the tires are actually straight.

If the tires aren't straight when the steering wheel is, EPAS believes you're turning when you're straight and straight when you're turning.
It calculates its assist based on steering angle and speed acquired from the ECU/PCM.
Other systems such as stability control and torque vectoring are factoring in the now errant data from EPAS.
Torque vectoring and stability control systems now believe you're turning when you're hitting the gas and going straight.

There normally has to be a reason why you'd need an alignment in the first place.
Cars don't just need an alignment out of the blue as regular maintenance.
Something mechanical (including a wheel/tire) has to be off in order to generate the need for an alignment.

But when the alignment itself is screwed up because the steering wheel wasn't held straight, it then leads to a host of other issues.

 

[ctrujillo99]

Exactly.
EPAS is all in the steering column. It has no sensors beyond that column and has no clue whether the tires are actually straight.

If the tires aren't straight when the steering wheel is, EPAS believes you're turning when you're straight and straight when you're turning.
It calculates its assist based on steering angle and speed acquired from the ECU/PCM.
Other systems such as stability control and torque vectoring are factoring in the now errant data from EPAS.
Torque vectoring and stability control systems now believe you're turning when you're hitting the gas and going straight.

There normally has to be a reason why you'd need an alignment in the first place.
Cars don't just need an alignment out of the blue as regular maintenance.
Something mechanical (including a wheel/tire) has to be off in order to generate the need for an alignment.

But when the alignment itself is screwed up because the steering wheel wasn't held straight, it then leads to a host of other issues.

the steering is very loose. you can make the steering wheel straight or move left and right and the tires won’t move. i’m considering tightening the steering rack guide screw too see if that fixes the play. i’m sure it would. and also might be the cause of my concerns.. just looking at everything i’ve done and after many alignments it just makes sense. turning and lane changes don’t seem very responsive but hitting the dotted lines feels like it pulls the car a crap ton. everything is new less the 500 miles. so I don’t think it would hurt to tighten that steering gear guide screw to get rid of the play.

 

[Intuit]

Can you do the opposite? I push pulled on the tie-rod (tire) and could see/feel a LOT of movement with nothing at the steering wheel. It was the same from both sides. Moving one side, did move the other side. This tells me the slack was in the pinion gear/rack, rather than a tie-rod or tie-rod end. I also noticed that the amount of slack varied depending on where in the rack the pinion gear was at. So the amount of slack varied depending on the steering angle. (that truck really f* it up)

 

[ctrujillo99]

I guess you could. I can’t feel any play from tie rod ends when pushing/pulling. but if I get in the car and move the steering wheel left and right you can feel/see where tire actually turns on steering position. it doesn’t take a lot of work to get rid of the play.

View: https://youtu.be/vAPV7ownWvY?si=y0Wq96q-zvPQXZ9Z

 

[ctrujillo99]

I guess you could. I can’t feel any play from tie rod ends when pushing/pulling. but if I get in the car and move the steering wheel left and right you can feel/see where tire actually turns on steering position. it doesn’t take a lot of work to get rid of the play.

View: https://youtu.be/vAPV7ownWvY?si=y0Wq96q-zvPQXZ9Z

I might get this done today. I will keep you posted. I fell asleep last night with this on my mind haha

 

[Intuit]

Interesting. Our manual hasn't mentioned anything about a slack adjustment being available with our steering gear. If you do find an adjustment, let everyone know. It won't help me because mine is clearly damaged.

 

[foodtruck]

the steering is very loose. you can make the steering wheel straight or move left and right and the tires won’t move.

I realized I miss the origin story; what was done with the car / what happened when did you notice that you have this problem?

 

[ctrujillo99]

i noticed real quick after the first alignment. I went in for tires to be mounted and balanced. I got an alignment because of the previous tires wear. but ever since that first alignment it’s been weird. the guy was sketchy to me to be honest. doesn’t give off that honest mechanic vibe. not gonna say he F’d something but I can’t help but think he mess up for me to come back and spend more money.. but i’ve had 6 or 7 alignments and most have said it’s in spec or have said torque steer.

 

[foodtruck]

It's honestly hard to imagine what he could've done to the steering rack that would cause this.

I think the conclusive evidence would be to have someone watch the steering column input on the rack and the tie rod ends at the same time while you turn the steering wheel and see if their movement is out of sync in any way or both of them are out of sync with the steering wheel.

 

[Intuit]

If he had irregular tire wear, there may have been a problem prior to the alignment. Until the replacement tires wear down to a pattern that matched the prior, it may track a little different.