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Ecoboost Intake Valve Carbon build up ?
- Thread starter rodmoe
- Start date
Really, its all the valve parts. Valve guides from distortion with crap getting in the valve seats between the seat and the head.
Of course hurting the seats. And the pre-mentioned seals. The seals are prob the most fragile area in this case though.
As far as the ecoboost V6 going 180k miles or whatever, i can believe it. But it had " routine maint.". BMW, VW, and others are CHARGING PEOPLE to clean these valves. Its not covered under a maintenance plan, its not covered under an extended warranty, its not something ford is going to do FOR YOU. Its like changing a timing belt. If you guys think Ford is any different, I hate to disappoint anyone, but they are here to make a profit. And if you think your going to bring your 59k mile fiesta ST in and have them basically rebuilt or replace the cylinder head FOR FREE,'your in for a surprise and a release of funds. I've heard VW charges $1500 for removing the head, cleaning the valves, and reinstalling.
Point is... That 180k mile ecoboost V6 didn't go 180k miles on the factory oil, the factory spark plugs, or without cleaning this mess out at some point.
Of course hurting the seats. And the pre-mentioned seals. The seals are prob the most fragile area in this case though.
As far as the ecoboost V6 going 180k miles or whatever, i can believe it. But it had " routine maint.". BMW, VW, and others are CHARGING PEOPLE to clean these valves. Its not covered under a maintenance plan, its not covered under an extended warranty, its not something ford is going to do FOR YOU. Its like changing a timing belt. If you guys think Ford is any different, I hate to disappoint anyone, but they are here to make a profit. And if you think your going to bring your 59k mile fiesta ST in and have them basically rebuilt or replace the cylinder head FOR FREE,'your in for a surprise and a release of funds. I've heard VW charges $1500 for removing the head, cleaning the valves, and reinstalling.
Point is... That 180k mile ecoboost V6 didn't go 180k miles on the factory oil, the factory spark plugs, or without cleaning this mess out at some point.
You're right most people won't keep the cars 180k. My point is just because the car is still running doesn't mean it is gonna cause us issues and some of us want to spend time optimizing our cars. Skittles pulled the manifold and we've seen the evidence. As for what Ford choose to reveal well that's up to them.
Skittle is running without a Catchcan as well for the last 10k or so miles.
Most likely the one on top of the IM and let it sit. Im gonna use the spray can. I dont understand how seafoam can hurt the turbos. Are the Borg warner turbos just that shitty? Exactly. If it works on a damn VW bug it will work on a fiesta.
Most likely the one on top of the IM and let it sit. Im gonna use the spray can. I dont understand how seafoam can hurt the turbos. Are the Borg warner turbos just that shitty? Exactly. If it works on a damn VW bug it will work on a fiesta.
I wonder if a bore scope camera might be useful to check up on valve condition. Like this > http://goo.gl/3hJnOE
Let us know how it goes. I'm a fan of this stuff since I've used it on a couple of my previous cars with noticeable results.
I also wonder if there's an easier way to peak at the valve condition without taking off the manifold... where would you insert this bore scope though? The only opening I can see is by the PCV nozzle on the tube to intake manifold, will that reach with all the bends?
I also wonder if there's an easier way to peak at the valve condition without taking off the manifold... where would you insert this bore scope though? The only opening I can see is by the PCV nozzle on the tube to intake manifold, will that reach with all the bends?
I have a catch can, modified to fit from a prior Vette build, caught around 2 tablespoons of oil in 1500 miles, a lot of tuning runs, it is probably plenty of can but all this made me rethink my options and I bought the top model Mishimoto can so will install it and sell the Elite Engineering can to a member here.
And now considering WI, I would use just winter formula windshield washer fluid for a simple solution as dealing with meth is a pain in the arse for my travel plans.
I really do not like adding weight and complexity to the car but if it cures this issue then worth it. I might switch from the J-Line IC to a Cobb to save the added weight of the OCC and WI system, I could mount the WI in the back of the car, actually put the pump under the car possibly to reduce the noise in the cabin..
And now considering WI, I would use just winter formula windshield washer fluid for a simple solution as dealing with meth is a pain in the arse for my travel plans.
I really do not like adding weight and complexity to the car but if it cures this issue then worth it. I might switch from the J-Line IC to a Cobb to save the added weight of the OCC and WI system, I could mount the WI in the back of the car, actually put the pump under the car possibly to reduce the noise in the cabin..
Reading through various forums ive found that seafoam works if done regularly and is started at the earliest possible times. Ive had a catch can since 1500 miles but just did my first foam. The theory is that by never allowing the crap to build up you kepp the valves cleaner. I will probally start doing mine every 3500 or 5k miles.
Link to a mini that had been running seafoam regularly since 35k miles at 63k.
http://www.northamericanmotoring.co...32-picture-of-my-valves-before-seafoam-3.html
Link to a mini that had been running seafoam regularly since 35k miles at 63k.
http://www.northamericanmotoring.co...32-picture-of-my-valves-before-seafoam-3.html
I've done a ton of research (years), and got bitten by the carbon bug at 52,000 miles on my 2008 VW TSI. The #2 intake port was so choked up with carbon that during a cold start, it couldn't get enough air to mix with the extra cold start fuel and it was misfiring. VW didn't even attempt to clean it, it was so bad. They replaced the cylinder head. The one pic I saw in this thread of the FiST intake port was nothing to worry about. Even port injected engines get a little buildup in spots.
That said, just a catch can isn't going to solve the GDI carbon issue. There are a number of factors that affect the carbon buildup issue. Fuel quality (top tier vs. cheapest gas around), amount of idling, how it's driven (stop and go vs. highway), amount of time it will be driven between startup and shutdown, oil quality, and even Ethanol has an effect on it.
PCV alone isn't the only contributor. The very nature of how valve seals work contributes; a little oil ends up past the valve seals to lubricate the valve guides. That oil ends up in the intake port. In port injection, it gets washed in to the mixture and drawn in to the combustion chamber. In a GDI engine, it sits and cakes in the intake ports and on valves.
EGR operation (in the case of variable valve timing like the FiST, they use cam timing for EGR instead of EGR valves) contributes to buildup. This loops in the Ethanol effect. Unburnt ethanol is a cleaner, but burnt ethanol is quite sooty.
Poor quality fuel contributes to increased carbon deposits not just because it's dirty, but the lack of additives contributes.
Idling a lot and constant stop and go contributes because things never get hot enough to burn off deposits as they build up. Starting it, driving it a few miles to work, and shutting it down contributes the same way.
Avoiding getting bitten by GDI carbon issues is a cumulative thing. Using a good quality oil with a good detergent pack and a low NOACK will help. A catch can will help. Avoiding other things I spoke of above will all help. I have seen VW and Audi guys with meth injection that still get the buildup issues because the meth injection by itself won't fix all of the other problems that contribute to the problem. Then I have a buddy at work with the same TSI engine in his MK IV GTI I had in my Jetta, and because he regularly tracks the car, at 120,000 miles he has zero carbon issues.
Here is the pic of my #2 intake port from my 2008 Jetta Wolfsburg 2.0 TSI right after the dealer pulled the intake manifold off:
That said, just a catch can isn't going to solve the GDI carbon issue. There are a number of factors that affect the carbon buildup issue. Fuel quality (top tier vs. cheapest gas around), amount of idling, how it's driven (stop and go vs. highway), amount of time it will be driven between startup and shutdown, oil quality, and even Ethanol has an effect on it.
PCV alone isn't the only contributor. The very nature of how valve seals work contributes; a little oil ends up past the valve seals to lubricate the valve guides. That oil ends up in the intake port. In port injection, it gets washed in to the mixture and drawn in to the combustion chamber. In a GDI engine, it sits and cakes in the intake ports and on valves.
EGR operation (in the case of variable valve timing like the FiST, they use cam timing for EGR instead of EGR valves) contributes to buildup. This loops in the Ethanol effect. Unburnt ethanol is a cleaner, but burnt ethanol is quite sooty.
Poor quality fuel contributes to increased carbon deposits not just because it's dirty, but the lack of additives contributes.
Idling a lot and constant stop and go contributes because things never get hot enough to burn off deposits as they build up. Starting it, driving it a few miles to work, and shutting it down contributes the same way.
Avoiding getting bitten by GDI carbon issues is a cumulative thing. Using a good quality oil with a good detergent pack and a low NOACK will help. A catch can will help. Avoiding other things I spoke of above will all help. I have seen VW and Audi guys with meth injection that still get the buildup issues because the meth injection by itself won't fix all of the other problems that contribute to the problem. Then I have a buddy at work with the same TSI engine in his MK IV GTI I had in my Jetta, and because he regularly tracks the car, at 120,000 miles he has zero carbon issues.
Here is the pic of my #2 intake port from my 2008 Jetta Wolfsburg 2.0 TSI right after the dealer pulled the intake manifold off:
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