Ecoboost Intake Valve Carbon build up ?

[racerstf]

I am looking for a new car and out of the 4 cars i'm considering, the fiesta makes the most sense for me in many ways... This thread is scarring me off though, as i need something reliable for the next 3-4 years as I'm going to be going to a health professional school. I won't be able to deal with valve jobs and is one of the reasons why i'm getting a new cars. Does the fiesta have any different tech from the other ecoboost fords to prevent the carbon buildup? I do not want to be doing valve jobs every 50k... My other top contenders are the bmw 228i, mini cooper s, cla250. BMW might be my best option as it has the best warranty plan and worry free during school... I love the fiesta and want it, but don't want to do valve jobs regularly... Someone convince me the fiesta won't be problematic as I'd be converting it to a full time track car after school.

 

[Sourskittle]

I think every single car you mentioned bas direct injection, as this issue will effect everyone of those cars.

 

[racerstf]

I think every single car you mentioned bas direct injection, as this issue will effect everyone of those cars.

Yea I know that, but does bmws have a better direct injection system that would only need a valve job every 100k rather than 20k like some fords? I know it's probably unlikely for the fiesta to need it at 20k, but even every 50k would be horrible. Valve jobs are not cheap and not quick either. I was hoping by buying a new car, someone would have figured out how to alleviate this problem significantly... My current 05 c230k needed a valve job at 90k.

 

[dyn085]

Yea I know that, but does bmws have a better direct injection system that would only need a valve job every 100k rather than 20k like some fords? I know it's probably unlikely for the fiesta to need it at 20k, but even every 50k would be horrible. Valve jobs are not cheap and not quick either. I was hoping by buying a new car, someone would have figured out how to alleviate this problem significantly... My current 05 c230k needed a valve job at 90k.

There's not really any evidence of how much buildup our cars will see yet as they're relatively new and not many have high miles and not many people that do want to remove the intake manifold to see how much buildup is present. For all we know right now these motors could see 100k before needing a cleaning-but there's no actual 'proof' in either direction.

Driving style, maintenance, modifications, etc, will all be factors. Someone that does strictly short trips and uses an 'average' oil will fare worse than someone with a lot of highway mileage on a low-NOACK oil.

 

[FORZDA 2]

I can tell you for a fact that a good designed OCC will "help" the carbon buildup on the intake valves, but will not eliminate it. I run a Saikou Michi (http://www.saikoumichi.com/OCC_explanation.htm) OCC and a very small #1 nozzle of Labonte W/Meth injection on my DISI Mazdaspeed 6 and it keeps the valves (and intake) clean. These steps WORK, but are really not practical for a "normal" year-round daily-driven car.

All said, there is at least one OTS product that will help all the DI engines. The Seafoam spray with the curved straw attached (not the liquid pour-in bottle). You spray it directly into the intake, preferably just ahead of the throttle body with the engine running to disperse the solvent as evenly as possible. It works people. I recommend using it or some equivalent product regularly and you can prevent the large buildup and subsequent mechanical teardown to clean it out.

When an energetic entrepreneur takes the time to think it through, they will develop a DI intake valve cleaning service kit using chemicals rather than a tear-down and physical cleaning like the bead/shell blasting. This service kit already exists for standard port or TB fuel injector cleaning that attaches directly to the fuel rail. Repair shops love it because it is pure profit for them.

It obviously won't work to clean the intake valves on DI engines, but could be adapted to inject the solvent (BG and several other brand/types) into the manifold rather than the fuel rail. The main problem to overcome initially is dispersal of the solvent fairly equally to each cylinder and prevent a hydro-lock event if too much collects at one cylinder.

My 2014 FiestaST is right near 10k miles and I will use the Seafoam product and spray it into the manifold just after the throttle body (at the boost/vac evap port) while running at ~2000 rpms. You just squeeze the clips and pop the fitting off and spray into the open port on the manifold, or you can loosen the TIP hose clamp and slide the stray into the airstream before the TB. Don't just spray full blast until gone though. Spray it in a continuous series of light bursts to allow the crud to soften and be blown out the exhaust. It doesn't hurt the turbine because the solvent isn't corrosive and it cleans the turbine wheel/housing as well. If you do this every 5k miles, just before an oil change, you will never have the buildup problem. You can wait as long as ~15k miles, but it will take more than one can to get the job done.

Oh, and don't change the oil any more often than ~5k miles. The old days of 3k mile (or less in some cases) oil changes are now simply a money grab for the fast oil-change outlets. The aromatics in the oils that contribute most to the buildup are burned off fairly soon from fresh oil, so the longer you can run it, the less buildup you will get.

 

[dyn085]

Ford has stated that there have been premature turbo failures due to the user of Seafoam in Ecoboost motors. How true/accurate that is Idk.

 

[Sourskittle]

I don't see how it could lead to turbo failure, but it could def effect the cat and O2 sensor.

I'm just going to stick with the ole w/I steam cleaner...

 

[RAAMaudio]

I received the new catch can, same one as WestcoastST as it seems to be the best one made or one of the very best, very fine workmanship, design, etc.......but a bit over the top in packaging.

http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-baffled-oil-catch-can.html

Mishimoto MMBCC-UNI with blue trim, list is $325 but I got one on Amazon Prime for just $243.75 with 2 day delivery.

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I will have to look into having the outlet feed into the DP, now I know why I put that extra bung in it when I built it

 

[FORZDA 2]

Ford has stated that there have been premature turbo failures due to the user of Seafoam in Ecoboost motors. How true/accurate that is Idk.

Yep, and there are documented cases of people dying by drinking too much water as well. Doesn't mean you should stop drinking water. Any product, process, or anvil in a sand pile can be ****ed up by an idiot...

Never underestimate the power of stupidity.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I will call a service writer I know at Ford, he was a mechanic for years and is very sharp, maybe he can help with some info on this.

 

[racerstf]

Driving style, maintenance, modifications, etc, will all be factors. Someone that does strictly short trips and uses an 'average' oil will fare worse than someone with a lot of highway mileage on a low-NOACK oil.

I would use a low-NOACK oil, most of my driving is around 30 min trips, and I plan on going to canyons and track days before school, so i have that going for me i guess.

I don't see how it could lead to turbo failure, but it could def effect the cat and O2 sensor.

I'm just going to stick with the ole w/I steam cleaner...

What's a w/I steam cleaner?? I'm hesitant about seafoam as i've head it could cause failures of other parts.

I received the new catch can, same one as WestcoastST as it seems to be the best one made or one of the very best, very fine workmanship, design, etc.......but a bit over the top in packaging.

http://www.mishimoto.com/mishimoto-baffled-oil-catch-can.html

Mishimoto MMBCC-UNI with blue trim, list is $325 but I got one on Amazon Prime for just $243.75 with 2 day delivery.

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I will have to look into having the outlet feed into the DP, now I know why I put that extra bung in it when I built it

I'm not convinced about the catch can, but I will install one for piece of mind.

I will call a service writer I know at Ford, he was a mechanic for years and is very sharp, maybe he can help with some info on this.

I was looking up info about the BMW N55 engine last night since there isn't enough about the N20, and the N55 seemed to need a walnut blast every ~45k which cost only $600 from the dealer. I'm sure it would be cheaper at an indy shop. I'm curious if ford will start walnut blasting as well, or if the machine will work for our cars. I would be ok with 300-600 on walnut blasting every 50k.

 

[Sourskittle]

Water injection blast. Basically you add safety to your engine, cooling compasticy, and clean your intake track all at one time. But its not really for everyone.

On the other hand.. If you paided $600 installed for a nice W/I system, and only used it 10-15 times a year, it would keep everything clean and pay for its self over time.

 

[racerstf]

That seems worth it to me if it will keep carbon away. Can you recommend a couple companies that i could research?

 

[RAAMaudio]

I was going to ask that about a W/I system, if we could just use it occasionally to clean things up, that would not be such a bad thing.

I would imagine we could use the washer fluid, winter grade with alcohol any help as well?

Perhaps a very simply system with just a pump, nozzle hoses and a switch, etc..would suffice.

 

[FORZDA 2]

http://www.snowperformance.net/stage-1-boost-cooler.html

This is what you need. I have a similar Labonte system with an on/off solenoid, but labonte went out of business a while back. The Snow kits use the same pumps and fittings though.

 

[Sourskittle]

Pretty much all the companies use the same controller and pumps. The sure-flo pump they use was ment for showers in RV's or something I think, lol.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I still think this can be done for less.

Just get a pump, right size nozzle, a pressure switch if you want it to come on under boost only, and use the washer res, less added stuff is always better, less weight and less to go wrong.

In my case I have a small rear tank as removed the big stock front washer tank.
I have a pressure switch, hoses, wiring, lighted on off switch, etc....

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Idea:
Since only needed on occasion make it a temp install setup so you do not have to carry around the weight, especially in the front of the car, all the time.

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Parts: Just for an example, exact parts need to be worked out and shopping for best price.....

Pump kit:
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/product_info.php?cPath=29&products_id=176&osCsid=7e68c5d4c273993467e836a3a5ae7c6d
Injector nozzle:
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=528
4 Port nozzle kit if you want to be more creative:
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/product_info.php?cPath=53&products_id=509
Boost switch: I have a cheaper solution, I will dig up the part.
http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.com/product_info.php?cPath=35&products_id=383

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have a dual element RO system I put in my toyhauler with a very good pump that I decided to not use, RO water is not safe to drink, I will keep the big triple filter system and add a UV unit instead. Maybe that high end pump will work

 

[razorlab]

Hobbs switch is what most use for things like that. You can get them for around $25

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=ATP-BCS-003&Category_Code=BCS

Any switch like that work well until they don't work, then you either hope you set up a safety net or your right foot is really quick.

Aquamist make the crazy high end W/I systems. With prices to match

http://www.aquamist-direct.com/

 

[RAAMaudio]

Thanks, that is what I have, a Hobbs, I just have not looked at it in a few years but know where it is.
I also have another much smaller switch I will have to look into as well.

I had an auquamist on my first NA to turbo mod car, it was expensive back then as well.

I see they have a DI kit now but it sure is $$$