does anyone run a Universal Oil cooler kit?

[Joshyfresh6953]

Does anyone have any experience with fitting a universal oil cooling kit on our FiST's? If so, which route did you go? I noticed the Mishimoto oil cooler uses -10AN fittings... Ive seen a bunch on eBay and figured it may be worth looking into vs spending $500

I was thinking of getting a universal one and mounting it to the crash bar behind the grill... any thoughts?

 

[HardBoiledEgg]

I've been debating the same thing

 

[Rocketst]

Don't do it.

Huh? Why shouldn't you?

Well, have you monitored your oil temperatures and determined that you have a temperature issue? If so, you really need to determine what is causing it and fix that instead.

Still not satisfied? Okay.

Unless your ST spends most of its life on the track, it's simply not worth the expense. I would also argue that unless you live in an area with a VERY hot year-round climate AND drive fairly long distances regularly, AND you monitor your oil temps and they often get well north of ~250F, it is still not worth the expense.

Here's why: you might not realize it but you WANT your oil to reach >215F regularly so that it can "boil off" deposits and condensation. A normal byproduct of the combustion process is water. Water and fuel blowby can (and will) accumulate in your crankcase. Your oil needs to go above the boiling point of water (212F) to get rid of it. Modern full synthetic oils can easily tolerate temps up to 300F (sometimes even more) without breaking down and losing their effectiveness. Winter conditions and short trips exacerbate the issue of oil dilution and condensation accumulation, and excess cooling will only make it worse.

Still want to run colder? Here's the deal: you're better off upgrading your radiator, since the factory mounting plate for the oil filter is also a liquid-to-liquid temp exchanger for the coolant and oil, and any improvements for the water cooling system will improve the oil cooling to some extent. Your cooling system's thermostat regulates the coolant temp by staying closed and restricting the coolant flow until it begins to crack open at ~180F, which allows it to rise to nominal operating levels before it fully opens at ~207F. Typical oil coolers do not have such a regulating feature besides bypass valves in the adapter plates (and often not even that). Your water cooling system can pull double duty for regulating the water AND oil temps (well... sorta). Oil temps pretty much ALWAYS rise more slowly than coolant temps. Don't delay it even further! You want that oil to reach operating temp ASAP!

With a better radiator, you'll have a more effective overall cooling solution which can prevent overheating during trackdays, pulls, and while carving up mountains, BUT you won't have to worry about any potential issues with oil volume/pressure, do not introduce any more areas that you could spring an oil leak, and won't need to worry about delays reaching operating or "boil off" temp ranges.

So, again, don't do it. Get a Mountune or Mishimoto radiator if you're worried about it.

Pretty damn good explanation.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

 

[flbchbm]

lol

 

[Joshyfresh6953]

Thanks for the great info! You just saved me money, time, and most likely a potential headache down the road! This is a perfect example of why I love the ST community and why I wrote this question to begin with!

Don't do it.

Huh? Why shouldn't you?

Well, have you monitored your oil temperatures and determined that you have a temperature issue? If so, you really need to determine what is causing it and fix that instead.

Still not satisfied? Okay.

Unless your ST spends most of its life on the track, it's simply not worth the expense. I would also argue that unless you live in an area with a VERY hot year-round climate AND drive fairly long distances regularly, AND you monitor your oil temps and they often get well north of ~250F, it is still not worth the expense.

Here's why: you might not realize it but you WANT your oil to reach >215F regularly so that it can "boil off" deposits and condensation. A normal byproduct of the combustion process is water. Water and fuel blowby can (and will) accumulate in your crankcase. Your oil needs to go above the boiling point of water (212F) to get rid of it. Modern full synthetic oils can easily tolerate temps up to 300F (sometimes even more) without breaking down and losing their effectiveness. Winter conditions and short trips exacerbate the issue of oil dilution and condensation accumulation, and excess cooling will only make it worse.

Still want to run colder? Here's the deal: you're better off upgrading your radiator, since the factory mounting plate for the oil filter is also a liquid-to-liquid temp exchanger for the coolant and oil, and any improvements for the water cooling system will improve the oil cooling to some extent. Your cooling system's thermostat regulates the coolant temp by staying closed and restricting the coolant flow until it begins to crack open at ~180F, which allows it to rise to nominal operating levels before it fully opens at ~207F. Typical oil coolers do not have such a regulating feature besides bypass valves in the adapter plates (and often not even that). Your water cooling system can pull double duty for regulating the water AND oil temps (well... sorta). Oil temps pretty much ALWAYS rise more slowly than coolant temps. Don't delay it even further! You want that oil to reach operating temp ASAP!

With a better radiator, you'll have a more effective overall cooling solution which can prevent overheating during trackdays, pulls, and while carving up mountains, BUT you won't have to worry about any potential issues with oil volume/pressure, do not introduce any more areas that you could spring an oil leak, and won't need to worry about delays reaching operating or "boil off" temp ranges.

So, again, don't do it. Get a Mountune or Mishimoto radiator if you're worried about it.

 

[ThaiFiesta]

It’s not possible to monitor oil temps with the OEM setup. The reading through OBD2 is an algorithm based on coolant temps.
A reputable (Mocal, etc) oil cooler will have a thermostat built into the sandwich plate, generally 80 deg C/176 deg F, but it’s unlikely that an eBay version will.
Agree re the larger radiator being a first step solution to cooling but, depending on your use and environment, an oil cooler may be beneficial. Consider placement if you install one. The unused panel to the side of the radiator (passenger side on LHD cars) is a better position than mounted in front of the radiator, but is not likely to fit an eBay sized cooler. I have seen aftermarket radiators in the UK with an oil cooler fitted in that panel, but they were very expensive.

 

[Joshyfresh6953]

I was only thinking of it because I was breaking in some track pads/rotors for an upcoming day at the track. it’s been super hot here in SoCal, close to 90* and with doing 15 pulls back to back both coolant temps and oil temps were close to 250* According to the accessport and the warning light on the dash for coolant being maxed out lol I know the radiator on our cars is the weak point with regards to cooling, just had not heard much about oil coolers hence asking the question to begin with. I appreciate everyone’s feedback

 

[SrsBsns]

Daaang, 250 for coolant seems dangerous.

 

[SrsBsns]

FYI... Black Friday is around the corner. If you can wait, I confirmed with Mountune that the rad will be on sale at that time.

I'm going to buy one when the sale gets here.

 

[hendrixsrv]

I was watching the radiator install on YouTube and I’m pretty sure I had an aneurism at how tedious it was lol.

 

[TemecFist]

Just do what I did. Drop the car off and have Mountune install the radiator. Problem solved....no headaches.

 

[Hypergram]

Just do what I did. Drop the car off and have Mountune install the radiator. Problem solved....no headaches.

Unfortunately, the drive from Orlando to LA is just a wee bit too long for me lol.

 

[danbfree]

Don't do it.

Huh? Why shouldn't you?

Well, have you monitored your oil temperatures and determined that you have a temperature issue? If so, you really need to determine what is causing it and fix that instead.

Still not satisfied? Okay.

Unless your ST spends most of its life on the track, it's simply not worth the expense. I would also argue that unless you live in an area with a VERY hot year-round climate AND drive fairly long distances regularly, AND you monitor your oil temps and they often get well north of ~250F, it is still not worth the expense.

Here's why: you might not realize it but you WANT your oil to reach >215F regularly so that it can "boil off" deposits and condensation. A normal byproduct of the combustion process is water. Water and fuel blowby can (and will) accumulate in your crankcase. Your oil needs to go above the boiling point of water (212F) to get rid of it. Modern full synthetic oils can easily tolerate temps up to 300F (sometimes even more) without breaking down and losing their effectiveness. Winter conditions and short trips exacerbate the issue of oil dilution and condensation accumulation, and excess cooling will only make it worse.

Still want to run colder? Here's the deal: you're better off upgrading your radiator, since the factory mounting plate for the oil filter is also a liquid-to-liquid temp exchanger for the coolant and oil, and any improvements for the water cooling system will improve the oil cooling to some extent. Your cooling system's thermostat regulates the coolant temp by staying closed and restricting the coolant flow until it begins to crack open at ~180F, which allows it to rise to nominal operating levels before it fully opens at ~207F. Typical oil coolers do not have such a regulating feature besides bypass valves in the adapter plates (and often not even that). Your water cooling system can pull double duty for regulating the water AND oil temps (well... sorta). Oil temps pretty much ALWAYS rise more slowly than coolant temps. Don't delay it even further! You want that oil to reach operating temp ASAP!

With a better radiator, you'll have a more effective overall cooling solution which can prevent overheating during trackdays, pulls, and while carving up mountains, BUT you won't have to worry about any potential issues with oil volume/pressure, do not introduce any more areas that you could spring an oil leak, and won't need to worry about delays reaching operating or "boil off" temp ranges.

So, again, don't do it. Get a Mountune or Mishimoto radiator if you're worried about it.

Only the '14-'15 pre-recall opens that high, they open at either 194 (most '16+) or 180 now ('14-'15's that had recall done, some '18's got them factory) but the rest is true, upgrading the radiator is key and you can also use a huge oversized oil filter (I use a Fram Tough Guard TG3600) to act as a larger heat sink and take more oil to spread the heat... But as far as radiators, we also have PumaSpeed and a decent 2 row thicker one on eBay for under $300 as well, so they are a few options out there.

 

[danbfree]

It's very close to being dangerous.



In that case I would absolutely recommend an up-rated radiator. It should kill two birds with one stone. The "comfortable" and appropriate temp ranges are 220-260F for oil and 195-220F for coolant. So, while your oil temps are more-or-less alright, the coolant is past the typical ~225F coolant boiling point and dangerously close to the ~265F breakdown/"failure" point where the coolant is not effective and degrades rapidly. A Mishimoto or Mountune rad will make tracking the car a less harrowing proposition without sacrificing capability as a daily and is a better use of your money than a dedicated oil cooler.

According to THIS chart the boiling point of water at 20psi at a 50/50 coolant ratio is 282 degrees (and we have a 21psi cap), so boiling isn't what to worry about, you want to stay under 245-250 to avoid straight up overheating the engine itself.

 

[danbfree]

Correct, though as previously stated the degradation of the coolant itself is also a concern. I've also seen a few liquid explosions from very hot engines being shut off without a chance to cool down more gradually. Those were admittedly pretty hilarious and the physics involved are more involved than I care to go into, but I still stand by 195-220F being the "golden window" for coolant temperatures.


Not to be confrontational, but I would like to see your sources. IIRC the recall addressed the coolant reservoir and hard coolant lines which were prone to cracking and causing coolant loss, and added an additional sensor for the cooling system along with a reprogramming to add support for the sensor. I don't believe the thermostat was a part of the recall, nor was ever changed as a mid-cycle update. Even the product page for the 180F Ford thermostat on Whoosh is misleading as it misrepresents info from the 2014 Ford service manual which states 180F crack and 207F fully open for the thermostat. The Whoosh listing incorrectly states that the stock thermostat "activates" at 207F vs 180F for the "revised" component, which is untrue according to Ford's own documentation. When I replaced the thermostat on my '18 (while I was upgrading the rest of the cooling system anyway) it had the same "180" marking as the "upgraded" OEM component I replaced it with, which leads me to believe that the thermostats are the same. If you have Ford documentation that proves otherwise, I am interested in seeing it.

Edit: Mishimoto is also misrepresenting the stated rating of the factory thermostat, claiming that their thermostat activates at 160F vs 207F for the stock component. Again, according to Ford, 207F is the temperature at which the stock thermostat is FULLY open and 180F is when it "activates" (begins to open).

Edit: Edited for clarity after OP deleted his original post...

I found the technical report of what is done with the cooling recall HERE but is sectioned very poorly... You have to scroll down and see Procedure G for Fiesta ST and it speaks for itself:

Procedure G – Thermostat Replacement

OVERVIEW: An updated 82° C (179.6° F) thermostat will be installed to improve cooling system performance


Also, if you search Tasca/equivalent dealer sites, you see both Ford part numbers cross referenced, one ending in B is a 194 and one ending in C (newer rev) is a 180...


I can also tell you that mine clearly has a 194 as my temps sit very close to it and (even like OP did before deleting his post), you even got the 180 in your 2018, but we're not sure how many people actually did... thermostats also typically have a 20 degree range of starting to open to fully open, I'd like to see the "service manual" OP mentioned before he deleted his post, I'm just curious if it does have a full 27 degrees between starting to crack and fully open or maaaybe it's a range of only 194-207 from starting to open to fully open... but I think it's safe to conclude at least, that going with a 180 seems definitely the recommendation with the latest MotorrCraft Rev C being 180 and the aftermarket ones calling 180 the "Recommended" temp now along with cross referencing to the C revision part.

It's just so strange we have seen these 180's in at least one 2018 and obviously likely more, but have not heard any reports of 2019's with them... They may have decided to clear out old stock of the Rev B for new build in the final year and save the Rev C's for warranty or sale instead, etc...

But, by assuming the there is a 14 degree difference on when it starts to crack, this should definitely help buy some time in the heat to try to help the undersized radiator keep up a bit, but even with one in hand I decided to hold off and see if I end up ordering a new radiator or not first.

 

[Sekred]

I changed out the original T Stat in my Euro MY2013 ST replacing it with the 82 C. It runs about 10 degrees F cooler, see datazap.

https://datazap.me/u/sekred/log-1484269134?log=0&data=1

https://datazap.me/u/sekred/log-1565499570?log=0&data=3&mark=1127