Clutch Bleed gone wrong

[kivnul]

So I was helping my son bleed his 2019 clutch. He stated that over a couple days the clutch has lost its feel and its catch point is getting closer to the firewall. It felt OK to me but it was definitly closer to the firewall than my car and how I would like it. We attempted to bleed with the push clutch / turn nipple / lock nipple release clutch method. It sounded air bubbly and the fluid was dark. After about 7 cycles the clutch sunk to the floor and stayed there requiring manual pullup. The transmittion started dumping brake fluid. My guess is the slave cylinder had a small leak that we ruptured with the bleed procedure. Did we do anything wrong? I do not have ready access to a good pressure bleeder to perfectly follow the service manual procedure.

 

[Ford ST]

If you have a internal slave cylinder that's leaking enough fluid that it's actually coming out of the transmission it's done. Typically when you have hydraulic leaks you get seepage around the seals but you're saying it's actually coming out of the transmission. My suggestion clean everything up, and you never worked on it take it to the dealer.
I can't think of anything anybody could do wrong to cause a slave cylinder to bust. That's probably why the clutch started feeling bad to begin with.

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[kivnul]

Thats what we are doing today. Had him take his splitter off and remove the cobb. I know the clutch itself is a wear item so they won't warranty it.. the slave cylinder is an unknown.

 

[Ford ST]

The clutch typically has a 12,000 mile warranty / 12 months.

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[Clint Beastwood]

My experience lately has been that the clutch catch point seems to be moving every time I drive the car. I bled an entire bottle of dot4 through it and it didn't change much. The clutch feels like it's engaging at the top, but feels like I need to be flat on the floor to disengage/shift gears. It's resulted in the occasional grind, because there's no consistent catch point.

 

[kivnul]

In the future I would recommend leaving the bleed valve opened and connected to a gravity bleeder or separator and pumping the clutch until only fluid exits, and then close the valve, check operation and repeat if necessary. This is per the service manual. The pedal failing to lift itself back up during bleeding like this is normal, but if I understand your procedure correctly it should not have done that, and you are likely correct that something ruptured.

Is there a valve in the system that prevents fluid from sucking back up the tube if you leave the petcock open? In my imagination, if you leave it open and pump the clutch the fluid would keep going back and forth.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

That's why you use a gravity bleeder/separator. You can make your own with a clean bottle and some hose. Attach the hose to the bleed valve with the other end in the bottle and pour enough fresh fluid into the bottle to submerge the tip of the hose. As you pump the pedal it will force air and fluid out of the system, the air will separate from the fluid in the bottle, and when the pedal is released the system will only be able to draw fluid back in. I've used this technique with great success for my clutch and also for bleeding brakes. Easy peasy.

I did mine using a vacuum pump/chamber I use for oilchanges - is that wrong? I pumped it up to create vacuum in the big chamber after running a hose to the nipple on the bleeder, then I'd open the bleeder and have my wife pump the clutch, close the bleeder, have her lift, repeat etc. until I ran an entire bottle through the system.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Hmmm, no that should be fine. The vacuum bleeder was drawing fluid out of the valve, right? Unless you ran your fluid reservoir dry then I see nothing that would have gone wrong. The whole dance with turning the valve open and closed is a bit more complicated than just pumping the clutch with an old Gatorade bottle and some hose hooked up, but the method seems fine.

From what I've read in your other posts, your issue is probably more neurological than mechanical and may be throwing off your perception. Unfortunately I cannot help you with that, besides to suggest letting someone else drive your car and getting their opinion. I hope you continue to get better!

Thanks! I was pretty sure its a sensory thing, but seeing this post about *exactly* my experience was a nudge back to "maybe its NOT me!". I don't remember needing to put the clutch all the way to the floor to get into first or reverse when the car was new, but I have several cars so :shrug:. I'll probably take it to the dealer, it's only like 10 minutes away, and their cafe has amazing grilled cheese

OP, let us know what the dealer says, I'll do the same

 

[DieselMech]

This guy right here, never have to dread the head ache of bleeding again.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CJ5DZE2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Clint Beastwood]

This guy right here, never have to dread the head ache of bleeding again.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CJ5DZE2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thats similar to what I used, didnt really help much.

 

[DieselMech]

Thats similar to what I used, didnt really help much.

Worked perfect for me, was your cap fully seated in the reservoir?


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[Clint Beastwood]

Worked perfect for me, was your cap fully seated in the reservoir?


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Yeah - I just noticed that the pedal has to go all the way to the floor to get into first, but it engages about midway through the throw. In reverse, it engages almost down at the floor. I don't recall it being like this when new and it sounds like OP is pretty similar. OP's statement that the fluid was *dark* on a fairly new car is odd though, I wonder if maybe his cap wasn't tight and it contaminated the fluid?

 

[kivnul]

Fluid in reservoir was shiny yellow. Fluid coming out of bleed tube (and out of bottom of transmission) was a dark yellow, burnt color. Cap AFAIK has been kept tight.

 

[DieselMech]

Yeah - I just noticed that the pedal has to go all the way to the floor to get into first, but it engages about midway through the throw. In reverse, it engages almost down at the floor. I don't recall it being like this when new and it sounds like OP is pretty similar. OP's statement that the fluid was *dark* on a fairly new car is odd though, I wonder if maybe his cap wasn't tight and it contaminated the fluid?

My engagement point is a little above halfway with the pedal coming back up and how it feels shifting into gears really depends on how it’s moving (meaning speed, surface smoothness etc) I still have some trans bracket bushings to install so I’m sure that’ll help but it’s definitely never been a worrisome engagement in gears. He very well could have had a lose cap and that’s how it got dirty but it’s something the dealership should fix with it being in warranty.


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[Clint Beastwood]

OP, did you get this sorted?

 

[kivnul]

OP, did you get this sorted?

Yup, warranty claim was accepted, the dealer replaced the slave and all appears to be working fine now. One of the axle seals leaked like crazy afterward so the shop had to replace it.

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Yup, warranty claim was accepted, the dealer replaced the slave and all appears to be working fine now. One of the axle seals leaked like crazy afterward so the shop had to replace it.

Nice - glad to hear you got it back up

My inconsistent clutch wasn't my clutch, it was my seat slider. The seat wasn't latching on the left side, so when I pushed the clutch the seat would twist a tiny bit, so it felt like I had to push the clutch down a lot further.

 

[lordsnipe]

Hey all, I'm looking to use a Mityvac to flush my brake/clutch lines ... with the clutch bleeder location, I'm guessing the airbox and battery need to be removed first?

Edit - Found out my answer (airbox only) here: https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/clutch-mooshy-since-axle-replacement.20513/#post-350865

 

[kivnul]

If you have smallish hands you can get to it from underneath (with the car jacked up of course)

 

[lordsnipe]

Thanks, the airbox isn't too difficult to take out so will just go with that...

The battery isn't either I guess .. but just a pain cos everything is reset after.