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CLOSED: Cyborg TurboCharger * NOT AVAILABLE *
- Thread starter Sourskittle
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OP
Thread Starter
#963
Thread Starter
#963
Im curious, why hasn't anyone thrown a shot of nitrous on these yet? I know the 125 shot on my srt4 sure woke the car up. 
This car. My buddy say's that is the solution to correct my over fueling issue, lol
![[bootyshake]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_bootyshake.gif "Booty Shake [bootyshake]"){kind=icon}
OP
Thread Starter
#969
OP
Thread Starter
#970
Thread Starter
#970
With the extra fuel, why not try full e85? Or have you
Baby steps
Lots of people say E50 is as good as E85(E70)
The temps are going to plummet again tonight. I just removed even more fuel pressure ( its about down to stock pressure now with E55 fuel ).
All my buddies are going to the track ( hellcat, 5.0's, syclone )... Gonna hard to spectate. I'm thinking about baby-ing it out the hole all night and seeing what kind of trap speeds I can put up...
U say that.... And i realize i did this pull with a full tank of fuel and 10gal (80lbs) of extra weight in the car i did not enter into the v-dyno...
Baby steps
Lots of people say E50 is as good as E85(E70)
The temps are going to plummet again tonight. I just removed even more fuel pressure ( its about down to stock pressure now with E55 fuel ).
All my buddies are going to the track ( hellcat, 5.0's, syclone )... Gonna hard to spectate. I'm thinking about baby-ing it out the hole all night and seeing what kind of trap speeds I can put up...
Baby steps
Lots of people say E50 is as good as E85(E70)
The temps are going to plummet again tonight. I just removed even more fuel pressure ( its about down to stock pressure now with E55 fuel ).
All my buddies are going to the track ( hellcat, 5.0's, syclone )... Gonna hard to spectate. I'm thinking about baby-ing it out the hole all night and seeing what kind of trap speeds I can put up...
On the hardware I have ( stock cold pipe, china cooler (ATP coming soon), crush bent exhaust ), this is about all she's gonna do
Obviously compared to my other experiences.
Then again 300whp in a ST is probably as fast as a 350whp Srt4
OP
Thread Starter
#977
Thread Starter
#977
Well... When your comparing these numbers to the king of FWD horsepower and torque, lol... Right off the top before anything is compared the SRT4 has 33% more engine than the fiesta. The 2.4L/2.0L dodge engine actually has way more "motorsport" into it than the 1.6L fiesta engine ever thought about. Our fiesta engine is roughly the same ole engine that was originally designed from top to bottom to be lower power, reliable, good fuel mileage, and cheap. The 2.0L focus engine is a close brother to the mazdeSpeed engine and its been developed over years and years and by race teams too ( M-sport, Ken Block etc type cars ). I'd say for sure the 1.6L is generally harder to make power with. Also... Think in your head, what are the all time favorite 1.6L engines from 1985 to current that racers have successfully used to kick ass with ??? Pretty much none..... Ok.... The B16 honda, but it has 8500rpms to work with; and even those guys take about 6 months to jump ship to a B18 the very first chance they get because the 1.6L is guttless without 8500rpms and a big turbo. Where does that leave us? 3 options. #1 keep the truck engine type power band and have good drivability while tuners try to balance the tight rope of "response" and the car having lag or "response" and the car freaking out and trying to rip your face off at 1/2 throttle.. #2 the cyborg retains most the good things about stock drivability, while def making a nice increase in upper rpm power with proper supporting mods and tuning. #3 show Russ the money. Russ can get you most the response close to the cyborg while offering intensely more power if your into a 2700-2800lbs open diff twitchy 350+whp fwd car type of person.
The 1.6L is 100% going to have a trade off vs a 2.4L. I don't care how many vtak's and direct injections and cybrogs you throw at it, the 2.4L will always offer a better response with a bigger turbo and be able to make more power while keeping it drivable. Its the nature of the beast. Doesn't stop us from trying.
But I didn't answer the question.... And I'm not going to yet.
2 years ago when this cyborg idea was first planned, cobb was claiming 217whp with stage3 OTS 93tunes and only there stage3 parts. This turned out to be a little "generous" some would say and I'll leave it at that. But the point is really this... The cyborg wasn't meant ( at first ) to really make much more power than the cobb stg3 claims. I had hoped it would make 225-230whp, but not make it at 5200rpm and then fall on its face. It was ment to stop the tire shredding donkey kick the stock turbo has, that ultimately is pointless ( all be it entertaining ). So 225-230whp was the peak whp goals with a 500rpm shift to the right, of the powerband.
Fast forward to last year ( or rewind ) and it got really interesting when I put on the 2J racing intake. I had actually borrowed a "cai" from a friend, and it didn't seem like it did anything. And I was meeting my power goals with 240-245whp. I really didn't think an intake would change much, but then Joe finally built them and I was a little shocked to gain 10-17whp or something like that over a green drop in. Then I put on the meth and the car freaked out. You could actually FEEL the meth come on !! My srt4 never did that... It made 270-275whp fairly consistent, and had a few in the 280-284whp range. I was shocked. The first goal was 230whp and a better usable power band. My meth kit sucked. I still used the stock doughnut equipped hot pipe, my intercooler does a good job but isn't the best, and to see anything like 280whp, I was shocked.
Fast forward to now... I'm not shocked to see 290whp. I still think it will do 300whp with a better cooler and a real tuner that is.... A TUNER. I've been tuning this car for 2 years with "trial and error" mostly and my understanding of the entire system is truly lacking. When I sent Russ my tune to help me out with the fueling issue, this was his first response...
But I don't sell tunes nor do I plan on selling them, I'm just getting by.
Disappointed ??? No way. Far from it. From where we were and where we are? I'm still very impressed.
A note of warning though... Don't expect power numbers like these if your not willing to push the edge, run high boost, run high timing, punish the engine, and run a ton of meth through the engine. Its not typical. Its not normal. And unless someone has a vested interest in this turbo like I do, no one else will prob push it like I do. And even if you did want to.... I sorta doubt a tuner would push it this far because if your motor fails, who's engine blood is on that tuners hands? Would risk your rep as a tuner to push something like this? If I sold tunes, no... I wouldn't.
That being said... I don't see any reason why someone in good weather and correct supporting mods couldn't make 245whp to 275whp with correct fueling and a tuner willing to push it.
Also note... Not a single tuner has a vested interest in making a turbo sold by someone else really kick ass.... I'd play it safe too on customers cars that my rep is on the line with.
And I def would not run this tune on anything other than a drag race type car for 0mph to 115-120mph. If I was gonna run anything autocross or really hard spirited road driving over and over and over, I would and will be taking it out of "kill mode". But kill mode will always be just a map switch away
Long winded... Sorry guys
The 1.6L is 100% going to have a trade off vs a 2.4L. I don't care how many vtak's and direct injections and cybrogs you throw at it, the 2.4L will always offer a better response with a bigger turbo and be able to make more power while keeping it drivable. Its the nature of the beast. Doesn't stop us from trying.
But I didn't answer the question.... And I'm not going to yet.
2 years ago when this cyborg idea was first planned, cobb was claiming 217whp with stage3 OTS 93tunes and only there stage3 parts. This turned out to be a little "generous" some would say and I'll leave it at that. But the point is really this... The cyborg wasn't meant ( at first ) to really make much more power than the cobb stg3 claims. I had hoped it would make 225-230whp, but not make it at 5200rpm and then fall on its face. It was ment to stop the tire shredding donkey kick the stock turbo has, that ultimately is pointless ( all be it entertaining ). So 225-230whp was the peak whp goals with a 500rpm shift to the right, of the powerband.
Fast forward to last year ( or rewind ) and it got really interesting when I put on the 2J racing intake. I had actually borrowed a "cai" from a friend, and it didn't seem like it did anything. And I was meeting my power goals with 240-245whp. I really didn't think an intake would change much, but then Joe finally built them and I was a little shocked to gain 10-17whp or something like that over a green drop in. Then I put on the meth and the car freaked out. You could actually FEEL the meth come on !! My srt4 never did that... It made 270-275whp fairly consistent, and had a few in the 280-284whp range. I was shocked. The first goal was 230whp and a better usable power band. My meth kit sucked. I still used the stock doughnut equipped hot pipe, my intercooler does a good job but isn't the best, and to see anything like 280whp, I was shocked.
Fast forward to now... I'm not shocked to see 290whp. I still think it will do 300whp with a better cooler and a real tuner that is.... A TUNER. I've been tuning this car for 2 years with "trial and error" mostly and my understanding of the entire system is truly lacking. When I sent Russ my tune to help me out with the fueling issue, this was his first response...
But I don't sell tunes nor do I plan on selling them, I'm just getting by.
Disappointed ??? No way. Far from it. From where we were and where we are? I'm still very impressed.
A note of warning though... Don't expect power numbers like these if your not willing to push the edge, run high boost, run high timing, punish the engine, and run a ton of meth through the engine. Its not typical. Its not normal. And unless someone has a vested interest in this turbo like I do, no one else will prob push it like I do. And even if you did want to.... I sorta doubt a tuner would push it this far because if your motor fails, who's engine blood is on that tuners hands? Would risk your rep as a tuner to push something like this? If I sold tunes, no... I wouldn't.
That being said... I don't see any reason why someone in good weather and correct supporting mods couldn't make 245whp to 275whp with correct fueling and a tuner willing to push it.
Also note... Not a single tuner has a vested interest in making a turbo sold by someone else really kick ass.... I'd play it safe too on customers cars that my rep is on the line with.
And I def would not run this tune on anything other than a drag race type car for 0mph to 115-120mph. If I was gonna run anything autocross or really hard spirited road driving over and over and over, I would and will be taking it out of "kill mode". But kill mode will always be just a map switch away
Long winded... Sorry guys
Yea, thanks for the long and thought out respone..
I guess in my limited experience that most factory turbo cars were much easier to make a good bit more power.
This car seems like it gains nothing really from turbo back exhaust or intakes or anything really other than a tune. I'm used to seeing 50+hp and 75+ tq from just a tune on most factory turbo cars.
I never realized these turbo's were near peak efficiency from the factory. It's crazy to me to run meth and ethanol blends and extra injectors and still be around 300whp..
I like that you are pushing things and developing things, it's awesome and you seem to do well with it. I enjoy reading your posts and learning as much as I can.
Maybe in the future I can work with you on something and see if we can make some serious power out of these 1.6's.. Give it time.. there are b16 engines pushing 900WHP. Ours can't be that far behind in technology.
I guess in my limited experience that most factory turbo cars were much easier to make a good bit more power.
This car seems like it gains nothing really from turbo back exhaust or intakes or anything really other than a tune. I'm used to seeing 50+hp and 75+ tq from just a tune on most factory turbo cars.
I never realized these turbo's were near peak efficiency from the factory. It's crazy to me to run meth and ethanol blends and extra injectors and still be around 300whp..
I like that you are pushing things and developing things, it's awesome and you seem to do well with it. I enjoy reading your posts and learning as much as I can.
Maybe in the future I can work with you on something and see if we can make some serious power out of these 1.6's.. Give it time.. there are b16 engines pushing 900WHP. Ours can't be that far behind in technology.
OP
Thread Starter
#979
Thread Starter
#979
The B16 is 30 years old this year. If someone threw enough money at our engine, it could match or beat a B16 engine. Just like a 900whp B16.... It would only take a.....
New set of custom block sleeves to make it closed deck.
New billet crank
New titanium rods
New billet custom designed lower compression pistons
Totally off the grid custom ground billet cams.
16 new larger and custom machined it valves with custom angle valve job.
5 different cylinder head porting shops pitted against each other for the best flowing head at .75 lift
A $2800 custom alum intake manifold.
$5-$6k turbo and manifold ( or more )
$4000 water to air intercooler
Twin race pumps or a giant single race pump with a $700 controller.
Custom transmission with billet internals.
$1500 CV axles.
Car also needs to drop 900lbs so it carries less load.
Ok... Etc etc etc etc... You prob know all that: just pointing out a 900whp honda isn't really even a honda anymore, anymore than a fiesta engine would be, lol. The SRT4 engines that make 1300hp are the same way as are the ecotech GM engines.
The B16 was just pointed out to show that no one else even bother to try and make power with a 1.6L, what was the last 400whp + mistu 4G61T you saw in a colt ? You don't. Its a 2.0L swapped in.
Its like 1.6L is below that tipping point of making a lot of power and being mostly drivable still. Like.... Would you want to daily drive a 450who true B16A2 honda in a 2800lbs car? HELL NO. It would suck.
Intercooler + a pro-tune is def where I would start if you wanna keep the stock turbo...
And I know what you mean... Back in the day, turbo cars def gained a lot more. GTi's and cobaltt SS's def still did/do. But the 1.6L would be so gutless with too big of a turbo for daily driving, I think they under shot it too much trying for torque response. The focus turbo would have been really perfect, or at the very least the twin scroll K03 from the velostor 1.6L
Speaking of the 4G61T. It came with a TD04 mistu turbo. Guess what the new golf R comes with stock? Lol. TD04 mistu turbo. Guess what turbo I've had on a shelf for my fiesta for 3 months...... TD04. Its 30 years old, and still better than our new hotness "low-inertia " KP39
New set of custom block sleeves to make it closed deck.
New billet crank
New titanium rods
New billet custom designed lower compression pistons
Totally off the grid custom ground billet cams.
16 new larger and custom machined it valves with custom angle valve job.
5 different cylinder head porting shops pitted against each other for the best flowing head at .75 lift
A $2800 custom alum intake manifold.
$5-$6k turbo and manifold ( or more )
$4000 water to air intercooler
Twin race pumps or a giant single race pump with a $700 controller.
Custom transmission with billet internals.
$1500 CV axles.
Car also needs to drop 900lbs so it carries less load.
Ok... Etc etc etc etc... You prob know all that: just pointing out a 900whp honda isn't really even a honda anymore, anymore than a fiesta engine would be, lol. The SRT4 engines that make 1300hp are the same way as are the ecotech GM engines.
The B16 was just pointed out to show that no one else even bother to try and make power with a 1.6L, what was the last 400whp + mistu 4G61T you saw in a colt ? You don't. Its a 2.0L swapped in.
Its like 1.6L is below that tipping point of making a lot of power and being mostly drivable still. Like.... Would you want to daily drive a 450who true B16A2 honda in a 2800lbs car? HELL NO. It would suck.
Intercooler + a pro-tune is def where I would start if you wanna keep the stock turbo...
And I know what you mean... Back in the day, turbo cars def gained a lot more. GTi's and cobaltt SS's def still did/do. But the 1.6L would be so gutless with too big of a turbo for daily driving, I think they under shot it too much trying for torque response. The focus turbo would have been really perfect, or at the very least the twin scroll K03 from the velostor 1.6L
Speaking of the 4G61T. It came with a TD04 mistu turbo. Guess what the new golf R comes with stock? Lol. TD04 mistu turbo. Guess what turbo I've had on a shelf for my fiesta for 3 months...... TD04. Its 30 years old, and still better than our new hotness "low-inertia " KP39
This thread is what reality TV shows want to be, but are not. Real, fast-paced, dramatic and totally entertaining. The brass ring just slightly out of reach every episode, but closer and closer.
The track rat in me will be happy with 230 hp on 93 and maybe push 250 with E30 for special occasions. Assuming it can be cooled.
I am loving that SS will break into the 12's in the 1/4, not if, when. I think one of the professional tuners should adopt him, or at least make him a protege, so Cyborg can fully express itself.
Lets not run 1.6L down, some of the most famous road racing drives in history have been run with 1.6's. Like Jim Clarke leading the Ring in a 1.55 L Lotus 23 in its first race with the factory 4L Ferraris in 1962 until his header broke and gassed him. 1.6L is a sweet spot for five main bearing 4 pots without balance shafts. Lotus was making maybe 130 hp at crank. We can have twice that with relatively low cost bolt ons.
The track rat in me will be happy with 230 hp on 93 and maybe push 250 with E30 for special occasions. Assuming it can be cooled.
I am loving that SS will break into the 12's in the 1/4, not if, when. I think one of the professional tuners should adopt him, or at least make him a protege, so Cyborg can fully express itself.
Lets not run 1.6L down, some of the most famous road racing drives in history have been run with 1.6's. Like Jim Clarke leading the Ring in a 1.55 L Lotus 23 in its first race with the factory 4L Ferraris in 1962 until his header broke and gassed him. 1.6L is a sweet spot for five main bearing 4 pots without balance shafts. Lotus was making maybe 130 hp at crank. We can have twice that with relatively low cost bolt ons.
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