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CLOSED: Cyborg TurboCharger * NOT AVAILABLE *
- Thread starter Sourskittle
- Start date
- Status
Jpgc: its on E45~. I still have barely touched the 93oct tune. 93oct tune is limp mode until I get to an E85 station, lol.
And yes, FINALLY, a cool morning.
And yes, FINALLY, a cool morning.
OP
Thread Starter
#364
Thread Starter
#364
Straight sheet
Straight horsepower
Straight torque
Cobb stg1+ turbo transformer vs cyborg
Peak power
250whp at 4800rpm
Peak torque 297 at 4000rpm (maybe would have been higher if I started at a lower rpm to begin with)
Highest boost pressure plotted, but the log shows it actually did 28.8psi, but who's counting?
OP
Thread Starter
#365
Thread Starter
#365
I will now attempt to straighten the record out because somewhere along the story, some people have gotten lost or missed a post, so now is prob a good time for a recap. I'll start by listing everything modded on the car so that it will be clear of what I'm using, then I will go into a small amount of details as to what as lead me here.
?Mods (feel free to call my out if I forget something small that I make have posted before, I don't want to forget anything, but I'm human ).
The final revision cyborg turbo system* (more on this in details). Everything I have listed in the beginning of this thread, minus the larger diameter wastegate disk because it was not being done back when I ported my own manifold/turbine housing.
Panda motor works upgraded intercooler. I did some "willing and dealing" and they sent me this core for about $150 cheaper that its going to be sold for and in exchange I took $200-$250 off the price of a cyborg setup for one of their close customers. I did an install with pics and before and after logs, but either no one saw them or no one cared, lol. Its also a "tester" cooler and i'm happy with it for what I paid for it. I think you either stay stock, buy this cooler, or buy Russ/DHM's intercooler, but that's just me, enough about intercoolers.
Perrin PWI-2 water/meth injection system. 1.2 aquamist nozzle, comes on at 19-20psi and full spray at 24-25psi. Running 100% methanol.
Miltek catless 3" downpipe $460 shipped from UK/pumaspeed from back when it was the only catless dp on the market. 2J is the direction I'd take now or ATP.
Custom 3" crush bent exhaust with a flow master 50-series 3" in/3" out design. $385 installed with nice perfect custom tip.
2J race air intake with the top cowl removed, bottom installed (just did the bottom cowl yesterday while it was raining ).
Autoparts store rubber plug on the cold pipe to blow off the sound symposer POS.
2J solid race bushing ( its black ) RRM. It was $40 used with the whole mount, worth the money, but it wore out fast and now makes noise and i hate it.
6k mile old mobil 1 syn extended 5w-30
Cobb access port with race tuner software. Without it, none of these mods would mean anything. Its AWESOME. I love it. I love cobb for making it (although I give them a hard time about just about everything else, and despite me being an A-whole to them sometimes, they still helpped me when i had a question about the software ). Buy this NOW (with the racer tuner software, man up).
Stock charge pipes, stock intake/TB.
Negative on the power.... 235-40-17 tires. They are heavier tires than stock and also add more tire height. V-dyno compensates for the gear ratio change from the taller tire, but it does not figure in the higher load put on the car from the gearing change. Its a small thing, but... So is a sound symposer delete. Friction of the road via a wider tire is also a factor not figured in. Point is... More power would show up on a V-dyno if I was on stock tires. But I like my $76 a piece tires
E45 fuel using 7-eleven 93oct mixed with thorton's E85.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Details
*cyborg turbo #5.
When we built the very first cyborg turbo for Rick/Raamaudio, we went with a very very very conservative clip on the turbine wheel. These turbo's do not grow on trees and at the time, we had zero margin of error. If we clipped the turbine too much, we risked ruining Rick's turbo and ended the cyborg experiment before it even got started. So we played it safe. That was cyborg #1. Its also the same clip and cyborg that I made 233whp on 25.5psi with.
After things got rolling, I invested my own personal money and bought some core turbo's and manifolds. This gave me the chance to do a lot of work for the better-ment of the cyborg and all its future buyers. I took my cyborg off the car and put the turbo back on the bench. Clipped it more, rebalenced it and then swapped it back on ( everytime I did this, I drove on the stock turbo for 1-10 days at a time, then swapping the cyborg back on for testing ). What we found was the 1000rpm to 3000rpm lag was caused by the compressor wheel. No getting around that, I was not giving up topend for less lag, besides, 20psi at 3000rpm isn't really "lag" really, now is it? Lol. But the more times I clipped the turbine, the car picked up 4-6-8hp per revision, while the 1000-3000rpm lag stay'd the same. But every party has to come to an end.... At some point.... The turbine can be clipped TOO MUCH. You start to loose the driving force on the turbine blade and it becomes harder to compressor the air, then the turbine wheel can drive the shaft. At revision #5, my turbo reached that point. Its clipped too far. The good news for everyone else is... Improved cyborg's as we know right where the sweet spot is. The bad news for me is.... My turbine is clipped just a bit too much. I'm a big boy, I can live with it, lol. The turbine alone can not be bought, so I'd have to use a core to go back a step ( losing an entire expensive turbo ). I'm not willing to do that. But that is what and how it had to be done.
Enter the race intake from 2J.
The race intake removed so much restriction from the compressor side/inlet that it gave me back the compressor wheel speed i needed to make 27+ psi. On the stock intake, i was hurting to make 26psi because the turbine that was clipped too far. The intake gave that back. Future cyborg owns don't have to worry, because their turbines will be clipped slightly less in the "sweet spot", but the intake was a game changer, and that is the back story as to why.
Meth injection and fuel.
In cold weather testing, I put a hurt'n on the fuel system with E45 and about 250whp-255-260whp area. Enter meth injection. The meth injection has allowed me to make more power without running out of fuel ( combined with not seeing anymore 35degree nights here in Florida ). I actually trimmed 100psi off the high-pressure fuel pump as well to save it a bit of stress (but I'm still straining the F out of it ). Russ at DHM also straighten me out with a tip on the AFR that made a good bump in power as well. All the little things added up.
I think all out... Charge pipes added, dhm intercooler and crash bar, 40degree 0% humidity, VP 110 octane OXYGENATED race fuel, I really think this could make 300+whp. I currenty do have room to add more timing, its actually pretty mild for what I've run in the past ( but it is knock limited on my current fuel with timing ).
Many months ago, I told Rick I think this turbo would have 250-280whp MAX with every mod. I'm glad to say I delivered on that, and i did it without "every mod", and I think it could go further.
What's next ? For me....? Don't expect a ton of datalogs or V-dyno's that make ATP want to go back to the drawing board, lol (they did NOT max out the GT2552 btw ). But its heating up in Florida and this weekend marks our last cold front until November prob. I'm going to see if this 2J intake greatly reduced the lag or at all, and then I'm prob going to finally start working on a 93oct tune if I can ( or at least an E30 tune, lol ).
?Mods (feel free to call my out if I forget something small that I make have posted before, I don't want to forget anything, but I'm human ).
The final revision cyborg turbo system* (more on this in details). Everything I have listed in the beginning of this thread, minus the larger diameter wastegate disk because it was not being done back when I ported my own manifold/turbine housing.
Panda motor works upgraded intercooler. I did some "willing and dealing" and they sent me this core for about $150 cheaper that its going to be sold for and in exchange I took $200-$250 off the price of a cyborg setup for one of their close customers. I did an install with pics and before and after logs, but either no one saw them or no one cared, lol. Its also a "tester" cooler and i'm happy with it for what I paid for it. I think you either stay stock, buy this cooler, or buy Russ/DHM's intercooler, but that's just me, enough about intercoolers.
Perrin PWI-2 water/meth injection system. 1.2 aquamist nozzle, comes on at 19-20psi and full spray at 24-25psi. Running 100% methanol.
Miltek catless 3" downpipe $460 shipped from UK/pumaspeed from back when it was the only catless dp on the market. 2J is the direction I'd take now or ATP.
Custom 3" crush bent exhaust with a flow master 50-series 3" in/3" out design. $385 installed with nice perfect custom tip.
2J race air intake with the top cowl removed, bottom installed (just did the bottom cowl yesterday while it was raining ).
Autoparts store rubber plug on the cold pipe to blow off the sound symposer POS.
2J solid race bushing ( its black ) RRM. It was $40 used with the whole mount, worth the money, but it wore out fast and now makes noise and i hate it.
6k mile old mobil 1 syn extended 5w-30
Cobb access port with race tuner software. Without it, none of these mods would mean anything. Its AWESOME. I love it. I love cobb for making it (although I give them a hard time about just about everything else, and despite me being an A-whole to them sometimes, they still helpped me when i had a question about the software ). Buy this NOW (with the racer tuner software, man up).
Stock charge pipes, stock intake/TB.
Negative on the power.... 235-40-17 tires. They are heavier tires than stock and also add more tire height. V-dyno compensates for the gear ratio change from the taller tire, but it does not figure in the higher load put on the car from the gearing change. Its a small thing, but... So is a sound symposer delete. Friction of the road via a wider tire is also a factor not figured in. Point is... More power would show up on a V-dyno if I was on stock tires. But I like my $76 a piece tires
E45 fuel using 7-eleven 93oct mixed with thorton's E85.
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Details
*cyborg turbo #5.
When we built the very first cyborg turbo for Rick/Raamaudio, we went with a very very very conservative clip on the turbine wheel. These turbo's do not grow on trees and at the time, we had zero margin of error. If we clipped the turbine too much, we risked ruining Rick's turbo and ended the cyborg experiment before it even got started. So we played it safe. That was cyborg #1. Its also the same clip and cyborg that I made 233whp on 25.5psi with.
After things got rolling, I invested my own personal money and bought some core turbo's and manifolds. This gave me the chance to do a lot of work for the better-ment of the cyborg and all its future buyers. I took my cyborg off the car and put the turbo back on the bench. Clipped it more, rebalenced it and then swapped it back on ( everytime I did this, I drove on the stock turbo for 1-10 days at a time, then swapping the cyborg back on for testing ). What we found was the 1000rpm to 3000rpm lag was caused by the compressor wheel. No getting around that, I was not giving up topend for less lag, besides, 20psi at 3000rpm isn't really "lag" really, now is it? Lol. But the more times I clipped the turbine, the car picked up 4-6-8hp per revision, while the 1000-3000rpm lag stay'd the same. But every party has to come to an end.... At some point.... The turbine can be clipped TOO MUCH. You start to loose the driving force on the turbine blade and it becomes harder to compressor the air, then the turbine wheel can drive the shaft. At revision #5, my turbo reached that point. Its clipped too far. The good news for everyone else is... Improved cyborg's as we know right where the sweet spot is. The bad news for me is.... My turbine is clipped just a bit too much. I'm a big boy, I can live with it, lol. The turbine alone can not be bought, so I'd have to use a core to go back a step ( losing an entire expensive turbo ). I'm not willing to do that. But that is what and how it had to be done.
Enter the race intake from 2J.
The race intake removed so much restriction from the compressor side/inlet that it gave me back the compressor wheel speed i needed to make 27+ psi. On the stock intake, i was hurting to make 26psi because the turbine that was clipped too far. The intake gave that back. Future cyborg owns don't have to worry, because their turbines will be clipped slightly less in the "sweet spot", but the intake was a game changer, and that is the back story as to why.
Meth injection and fuel.
In cold weather testing, I put a hurt'n on the fuel system with E45 and about 250whp-255-260whp area. Enter meth injection. The meth injection has allowed me to make more power without running out of fuel ( combined with not seeing anymore 35degree nights here in Florida ). I actually trimmed 100psi off the high-pressure fuel pump as well to save it a bit of stress (but I'm still straining the F out of it ). Russ at DHM also straighten me out with a tip on the AFR that made a good bump in power as well. All the little things added up.
I think all out... Charge pipes added, dhm intercooler and crash bar, 40degree 0% humidity, VP 110 octane OXYGENATED race fuel, I really think this could make 300+whp. I currenty do have room to add more timing, its actually pretty mild for what I've run in the past ( but it is knock limited on my current fuel with timing ).
Many months ago, I told Rick I think this turbo would have 250-280whp MAX with every mod. I'm glad to say I delivered on that, and i did it without "every mod", and I think it could go further.
What's next ? For me....? Don't expect a ton of datalogs or V-dyno's that make ATP want to go back to the drawing board, lol (they did NOT max out the GT2552 btw ). But its heating up in Florida and this weekend marks our last cold front until November prob. I'm going to see if this 2J intake greatly reduced the lag or at all, and then I'm prob going to finally start working on a 93oct tune if I can ( or at least an E30 tune, lol ).
SS, this is where I step in, right?
I am an owner of what I have, in the this very moment, dubbed the SweetSpot Cyborg (if that's ok with you, SS). It has been treated with over-sized bearings, a large diameter wastegate disk, and EFR wastegate. Currently, my other mods are:
Ported manifold
2JR Race DP
MBRP Cat-back
Cobb Intercooler w/stock cold side pipes
ATP hot side pipe
Cobb intake- 2JR should be delivered VERY soon. (Who wants a Cobb CAI?)
Right now, tuning is taking place on 93oct, but I will have an ethanol tune as well. Meth and a tubular manifold may also be in my future before/IF I move on to the EFR setup. Datalogging is pending warmer weather because it's 30* here near St. Louis.
I am an owner of what I have, in the this very moment, dubbed the SweetSpot Cyborg (if that's ok with you, SS). It has been treated with over-sized bearings, a large diameter wastegate disk, and EFR wastegate. Currently, my other mods are:
Ported manifold
2JR Race DP
MBRP Cat-back
Cobb Intercooler w/stock cold side pipes
ATP hot side pipe
Cobb intake- 2JR should be delivered VERY soon. (Who wants a Cobb CAI?)
Right now, tuning is taking place on 93oct, but I will have an ethanol tune as well. Meth and a tubular manifold may also be in my future before/IF I move on to the EFR setup. Datalogging is pending warmer weather because it's 30* here near St. Louis.
You guys are devoted to be running the 2jr intake lol.
Amazing work SS to get this project off the ground. I can only imagine the man hours that have put into this.
One thing I do wonder is if your hitting fuel issues on yours where will the EFR projects go with fuel upgrades?
Oh I think you left the ported manifold off your mod list. You still running the charge pipe donut?
Amazing work SS to get this project off the ground. I can only imagine the man hours that have put into this.
One thing I do wonder is if your hitting fuel issues on yours where will the EFR projects go with fuel upgrades?
Oh I think you left the ported manifold off your mod list. You still running the charge pipe donut?
OP
Thread Starter
#375
Thread Starter
#375
Even after all the power I've made with this tune... I found this... This morning
For those not familiar with race tuner, that is a throttle closure. Another words, it could make even more if i had caught this sooner and fixed it in the throttle tables. Better late than never (says all women).
For those not familiar with race tuner, that is a throttle closure. Another words, it could make even more if i had caught this sooner and fixed it in the throttle tables. Better late than never (says all women).
OP
Thread Starter
#377
Thread Starter
#377
Well... Your not wrong
If your torque settings are too low in the throttle table, then it will def do the samething. It actually will shut the throttle for lots of different reasons ( too much boost etc ). In this case, it was a simple load table. One square changed from 2.3 to 2.4 and that's it. The ecu expects to see a certain amount of load at set rpms. If you exceed that load, it will shut you down. This is actually the same table that bit me a log time ago when the car made 217whp on the dyno jet. It was shutting the throttle around 4200rpm and pretty much never letting it open back up all the way. Razorlab beat around the bush for about 4 days afterwords before finally had to basically tell me exactly where to look in ATR to find the tables, but he def helpped me out there more than ever before (or after). Anyway, lol.
As far as the 81%, yes, that is WOT. I forget why its expressed this way. There is another reading in the access port that also reads throttle opening, and I think it gets closer to the normal 100% we are used to dealing with, but I always use this one. Basically everything at or slightly around 80-82% is WOT. We you exceed something, it shows up pretty easy.
The air intake took me from seeing 27.5 max max max ( more like 26psi most the time) to 26-27psi at 4,000rpm and 28.5psi around 6,000rpm. That higher boost creates higher load. My load tables are setup to deal with very high loads, they just were not setup to deal with that much boost/load at that rpm.
If your torque settings are too low in the throttle table, then it will def do the samething. It actually will shut the throttle for lots of different reasons ( too much boost etc ). In this case, it was a simple load table. One square changed from 2.3 to 2.4 and that's it. The ecu expects to see a certain amount of load at set rpms. If you exceed that load, it will shut you down. This is actually the same table that bit me a log time ago when the car made 217whp on the dyno jet. It was shutting the throttle around 4200rpm and pretty much never letting it open back up all the way. Razorlab beat around the bush for about 4 days afterwords before finally had to basically tell me exactly where to look in ATR to find the tables, but he def helpped me out there more than ever before (or after). Anyway, lol.
As far as the 81%, yes, that is WOT. I forget why its expressed this way. There is another reading in the access port that also reads throttle opening, and I think it gets closer to the normal 100% we are used to dealing with, but I always use this one. Basically everything at or slightly around 80-82% is WOT. We you exceed something, it shows up pretty easy.
The air intake took me from seeing 27.5 max max max ( more like 26psi most the time) to 26-27psi at 4,000rpm and 28.5psi around 6,000rpm. That higher boost creates higher load. My load tables are setup to deal with very high loads, they just were not setup to deal with that much boost/load at that rpm.
OP
Thread Starter
#379
Thread Starter
#379
The 100% methanol injection keeps charge temps at the same temp as the in coming air until about 5200rpm. At that point it rises just slightly. I end up with about 10-14degrees higher than inlet temp, charge temps at 6800rpm.
Without the meth and less boost, the charge temps generally raised to a peak of about 18-28degrees above inlet temps, but they also raised INSTANTLY at low rpm.
Without the meth and less boost, the charge temps generally raised to a peak of about 18-28degrees above inlet temps, but they also raised INSTANTLY at low rpm.
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