Big Turbo Results Thread

[Jardamuth]

That is an interesting thread. I rebuild and sell turbos for a living and this thread got my attention. Any of you guys running a Garrett BB turbo and complaining about lag? FYI there are a few things that can be done to the turbo in order to lessen lag to an acceptable level for street use. I'm willing to offer a free turbo service to the first one who will send me his turbo for overhaul/mods. In turn, I'm only asking for a honest review with before/after dyno charts. I'm in Canada and not really looking for the Fiesta ST market but I thought it would be a fun thing to do.

Any takers?

 

[twolf]

Plenty of people are running gt2554r and gt2560r and complaining about lag. What kind of services do you offer and how much would this kind of thing cost? Feel free to PM me more details.
[MENTION=3906]Jardamuth[/MENTION]

 

[Wimp Lo]

I have been thinking about getting a spare GT2560r CHRA (I think that is what it is called) with a billet compressor wheel.

Is that where you do your tricks?

 

[Jardamuth]

Question for you guys: why is there so much spacing between the last of your sentence and the bottom of the post?

 

[wspec]

I have been thinking about getting a spare GT2560r CHRA (I think that is what it is called) with a billet compressor wheel.

Is that where you do your tricks?

I have evidence of no billet wheel not helping spool on 2560r, but it does help on the top end potential, it could actually hurt a tiny bit. (assuming its a gtx style wheel upgrade and not just a billet wheel for the sake of billet)

 

[Jardamuth]

The GT series share the same bearing arangement and shaft size across the GT22xx to GT3xxx range. Meaning that the bearing are the same as the GT3582R. Those are huge brg for the application with a lot of inertia to overcome.

First, a billet wheel is only part of the equation. You need to select the proper wheel first cuz I don't think a GTX replica will work well for this application. Second, Garrett turbos are not balanced from factory so getting it done properly will allow the shaft to rev quicker with less energy wasted to the bearings. We also replace the chrome bearings in favor of ceramics. They are lighter and stronger. Tiny improvement but at those speeds, anything count.

 

[Sourskittle]

There are also treatments and coating you can put on the turbine/bearings to reduce friction and increase spool.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I am getting the GT2560R with billet comp wheel in a couple of weeks, I asked the company that does the wheel and they do not have any other mods to offer except ceramic bearings which they said will wear out sooner.

The torque curve wspec has with the same turbo is pretty impressive and far better than the EFR6258 I just pulled off the car, not sure I would really need it to spool faster than his turbo does already but do let us know what you think you can do as am interested

From what you are saying it looks like it would encompass these mods, correct?
1) billet comp wheel
2) smaller diameter shaft
3) smaller and ceramic bearing
4) perhaps some porting?

 

[Sourskittle]

WPC treatment and then cryotreating the turbine, the bearings, the thrust plate, the oil control ring.

Did I just given everyone a solution ?
Yep.

Problem is... Shipping adds up. Taking apart the turbo and messing with something that is bal to .001 of a gram, means that you have get it rebalanced after words.
Its cost plus shipping plus cost plus shipping plus cost plus shipping. It adds up cost and down time.

Ceramic coating the hot side parts can also help.

Before you know it, you've spent countless days/weeks and dollars to reduce spool time by 400-500rpm.

It sort of begs the question, is it worth it.

Maybe if one shop could do all the processes at once and you'd only have shipping to them and then back to you, it could be worth while.
But the WPC process is only in one place in the US that I know of. Then somewhere else
Has to cyro it. Then somewhere else has to balance it and assemble it. Then it has to be shipped to you.

Time and money are the only two issues. If they are not an issue for you,
then it could be worth it.

 

[Jardamuth]

From what you are saying it looks like it would encompass these mods, correct?
1) billet comp wheel
2) smaller diameter shaft
3) smaller and ceramic bearing
4) perhaps some porting?

More like:

1) billet comp wheel
2) Bearing upgrade
3) Components and CHRA balance
4) There are more things that can be done but gains are small and it takes too long for what it does.

WPC'ing the internals on a turbochargers is totally useless. We've done it before with zero results. There is no friction in a turbocharger per se as moving parts will never touch each other. At those speeds the slightest contact mean instant failure. What is making the turbo hard to spool is oil drag. That's why the BB are at advantage because there is so little oil in the turbo at all times.

I've done those turbos for over 20 years. The BB turbos are not balanced to 0.001gr. far.. very far from it. The turbine shaft and wheel are midly balanced before being assembled together and call it a day. Garrett rely on their heavy duty bearings to do the job, which has always given acceptable results so far. A proper balance require complete disassembly of the turbocharger, rebalance the shaft and comp. wheel, then a final VSR touch.

As for the quick wear rate of the ceramic bearings over the chrome balls, I'd be interested to hear it live from the person who can assess something like that

Shipping back and forth to Canada is about $100. As stated above, I'm not looking for new customers, I just wanted to chime in and share turbo knowledge as I really like those little cars.

 

[Jardamuth]

Before you know it, you've spent countless days/weeks and dollars to reduce spool time by 400-500rpm.

It sort of begs the question, is it worth it.

On a street machine, a 500 rpm reduced spool time without top end losses is worth several thousand dollars if you ask me.

 

[RAAMaudio]

What if I can arrange to get my already paid for GT2560R shipped directly to you from MI, do your magic on it and ship it to me in AZ, could you do do it fairly quickly and for what cost????

I am serious, hope I can afford it and can be done right away.

I should be able to have the turbo shipped to you very soon, I just shipped the manifold to MI to mod to fit the new turbo and other parts made so it will be at least 2 weeks, hopefully less than 3 when I have the parts here to put the car together.

 

[Jardamuth]

It could be done the same day. Do you have a dyno graph with the turbo previously installed? that is my only requirement.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Same day is cool but I do not have the turbo, it is new and in MI so no use yet.

wspec has the same setup, close at least, with a billet wheel I had planned to do as in the same area as the company that would do the change for me for $300 and a day or two turn around.

 

[wspec]

I do have recent logs. 500 rpms sooner would be worth quite a bit to me, it wasn't a cheap learning curve to here, but I think that would be an unrealistic goal.
This is my recent 4th gear spools and 3rd gear power pulls (ignore the 3rd gear wheel spin, before it grips and finishes strong at 362whp)

 

[Jardamuth]

That seems a bit laggy for a GT2560r. Is this the .64 A/R housing? Can you post a picture of the billet wheel?

 

[wspec]

That seems a bit laggy for a GT2560r. Is this the .64 A/R housing? Can you post a picture of the billet wheel?

Actually this is the .80 a/r
I was thinking about trying the .42 sometime just to see the difference, but was told not to expect much difference.

The wheels side by side

 

[Chrisklol]

.42 housing would make a pretty big difference IMO but you will most likely lose top end.

 

[Jardamuth]

.80 A/R is the compressor housing. I was referring to the turbine housing. Not sure if the ATP comes with .64 or .86. Or are you having the manifold modified to fit a T25 flange?

 

[wspec]

.80 A/R is the compressor housing. I was referring to the turbine housing. Not sure if the ATP comes with .64 or .86. Or are you having the manifold modified to fit a T25 flange?

Sorry my bad, its vband .64.
http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=ATP-HSG-282&Category_Code=GTH