Bad brands for APs ? Do's and do not's?

[TalkToTheFiST]

First time posting here in tuning i think so i will give a brief preface. I have a 2015 FIST, it has RMM and CAI so far (and some cosmetics), in another thread i worked out an upgrade path that i can afford over the next couple years. First step is to get an AP, will be buying used. Im aware it must be unmarried, the going rate expected seems to be around $300US.

My plan is to get the AP now and install a free stage 1, and by thanks giving maybe, grab a used FMIC and a stage 2 tune. After that i will take some time to save more. Are there any brands of AP that are junk i should avoid? I found one that's SCT performance online for under $300, will i have any problems finding tunes for that brand or are there plenty of tunes for all brands of AP?

Any and all info is welcome, i will probly order an AP this week sometime after i find a suitable buy and i wanted to ask around here first. Thanks for any help.

 

[HBEcoBeaST]

The AP is referring specifically to the Cobb brand tuner. SCT is a different brand and the selection of tunes is nowhere close to what is available for the Cobb units. The majority of us by far run Cobb APs. I'd save up for a Cobb. Search the local Facebook and for sale listings. They come up relatively frequently

 

[Spork1569]

I think the actual Cobb access port has the biggest following by tuners for our cars and it may be difficult to find someone for the SCT brand one.

I usually see Cobb AP for sale on Facebook marketplace, offer up, or here on the forums.

Another tip if you do end up getting one is you can actually run stage 3 OTS from Cobb once you get an IC, their tunes are pretty conservative with timing and boost so even their stage 3 doesn't compare to a stage 2 from a pro tuner.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

The AP is referring specifically to the Cobb brand tuner. SCT is a different brand and the selection of tunes is nowhere close to what is available for the Cobb units. The majority of us by far run Cobb APs. I'd save up for a Cobb. Search the local Facebook and for sale listings. They come up relatively frequently

Ok gotcha, AP is a brand word. So what are they called generically? Just Tuner devices or something? I actually don't have FB but my wife does so i will send her to look lol. Tomorrow i'm also gonna call my local aftermarket shot and ask if they have one or know where one is for sale used. But if i can help it i'll take your advice and go Cobb.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

I think the actual Cobb access port has the biggest following by tuners for our cars and it may be difficult to find someone for the SCT brand one.

I usually see Cobb AP for sale on Facebook marketplace, offer up, or here on the forums.

Another tip if you do end up getting one is you can actually run stage 3 OTS from Cobb once you get an IC, their tunes are pretty conservative with timing and boost so even their stage 3 doesn't compare to a stage 2 from a pro tuner.

Ty guys for the info. Interesting, so by OTS do you mean free, or is that one of the more generic $50 tunes? Once i have the FMIC and AP another $50 or whatever isn't an issue, just curious what's what.

 

[Spork1569]

Ty guys for the info. Interesting, so by OTS do you mean free, or is that one of the more generic $50 tunes? Once i have the FMIC and AP another $50 or whatever isn't an issue, just curious what's what.

The OTS(off the shelf) tunes usually refers to those that come with the COBB AP for free.

A flash tune is what you're probably thinking of from a pro tuner, they usually cost from 50-100 dollars and are like a suped up version of the COBB OTS tunes.

The step up from there is a custom tune which is where you send data logs to and from your tuner and they refine the tune with every log to fit your car as close as possible. This usually runs a few hundred bucks but will give the best performance for whatever setup you have.

 

[TalkToTheFiST]

The OTS(off the shelf) tunes usually refers to those that come with the COBB AP for free.

A flash tune is what you're probably thinking of from a pro tuner, they usually cost from 50-100 dollars and are like a suped up version of the COBB OTS tunes.

The step up from there is a custom tune which is where you send data logs to and from your tuner and they refine the tune with every log to fit your car as close as possible. This usually runs a few hundred bucks but will give the best performance for whatever setup you have.

Ok gotcha, yes i was just looking up APs and found several custom sites. Most quoted $200 and were emailed back and forth half a dozen times or something to get it dialed in. Im not likely to do that any time soon as im not exactly "serious" yet into this stuff, but i could see a flash in my future if it's an improvement over the OTS options.

 

[Spork1569]

Ok gotcha, yes i was just looking up APs and found several custom sites. Most quoted $200 and were emailed back and forth half a dozen times or something to get it dialed in. Im not likely to do that any time soon as im not exactly "serious" yet into this stuff, but i could see a flash in my future if it's an improvement over the OTS options.

The difference is pretty noticeable immediately. I think going from stock to stage 1 from the COBB OTS maps woke the car up and makes it a lot more drivable, stage 2 and 3 for the COBB made a difference but not as big as the one going to stage 1.

I like the flash tunes because you get a feel for the tuners without having to invest a few hundred dollars. The two most popular seem to be Stratified(a more torquey and aggressive tune) and Dizzy's(more linear power and DD friendly) flash tunes. Definitely worth the 50 or so bucks to give the different tuners a try and see who you like most.

 

[RubenZZZ]

Just speaking from MY personal experience...

I bought a used SCT3 tuner thinking most Mustang/fast Ford shops would tune my FiST with it. Turns out VERY few do. Just about all the local LA/OC shops tuned with Cobb's AP (Access Port). I ended up selling my SCT tuner and picking up a used AP for like $325.

I uploaded the OTS Stage 1 from Cobb's site ( my AP had Focus ST tunes on it) and it definitely woke the car up. It ran how it should have from the factory.

A few months later I purchased a flash tune from Stratified: it made throttle response more agressive, added some more bottom end torque, and opted for the "crackles" on deceleration for some noise... Best $75 I spent!

I'm currently looking for an E85 station nearby so I can try an E30 tune now that I have an upgraded intercooler too.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

 

[RubenZZZ]

Oh yeah, Focus ST (non-RS!) and Fiesta ST Access Ports are the same unit. Might be easier to find one if you look for a Focus seller.




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[TalkToTheFiST]

Just speaking from MY personal experience...

I bought a used SCT3 tuner thinking most Mustang/fast Ford shops would tune my FiST with it. Turns out VERY few do. Just about all the local LA/OC shops tuned with Cobb's AP (Access Port). I ended up selling my SCT tuner and picking up a used AP for like $325.

I uploaded the OTS Stage 1 from Cobb's site ( my AP had Focus ST tunes on it) and it definitely woke the car up. It ran how it should have from the factory.

A few months later I purchased a flash tune from Stratified: it made throttle response more agressive, added some more bottom end torque, and opted for the "crackles" on deceleration for some noise... Best $75 I spent!

I'm currently looking for an E85 station nearby so I can try an E30 tune now that I have an upgraded intercooler too.

Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk

I see. I live about 2 hours out of St Louis and there's only a couple local aftermarket shops here, not sure yet if they even offer custom tunes. Im sure some in St Louis do but i gotta set aside time to make a trip there. It really would be easier if i can just DL a tune from a website for my car, that might make the Cobb a better bet.

 

[MRX330]

Ok gotcha, yes i was just looking up APs and found several custom sites. Most quoted $200 and were emailed back and forth half a dozen times or something to get it dialed in. Im not likely to do that any time soon as im not exactly "serious" yet into this stuff, but i could see a flash in my future if it's an improvement over the OTS options.

Just tell Stratified what mods you have and they send you a Flash tune. Customs tunes on the stock turbo are pointless

 

[Ford ST]

If it's not a cobb don't buy it.

Sent from my LG-LS997 using Tapatalk

 

[danbfree]

The difference is pretty noticeable immediately. I think going from stock to stage 1 from the COBB OTS maps woke the car up and makes it a lot more drivable, stage 2 and 3 for the COBB made a difference but not as big as the one going to stage 1.

I like the flash tunes because you get a feel for the tuners without having to invest a few hundred dollars. The two most popular seem to be Stratified(a more torquey and aggressive tune) and Dizzy's(more linear power and DD friendly) flash tunes. Definitely worth the 50 or so bucks to give the different tuners a try and see who you like most.

Just to be fair and to clarify, my Dizzy tune clearly made more torque than Stratified in flash form in the same conditions/mods on my car. Both made just about the same HP, but Stratified feels and sounds more aggressive and twitchy while Dizzy is smoother but also a touch faster, it just feels slower because it's just *that* smooth.... Nothing wrong with either, both are very safe, but as a bonus with Stratified, it has the radiator fan profile kick in a bit sooner to help with coolant temps and on Dizzy, he actually has his peak requested boost level dialed in more realistically resulting in not only that touch more torque, but also does not run out of breath quite so drastically up top, the dropoff in power past 5500 or so is definitely slower.

 

[MRX330]

Stratified for stock turbo. 91 93 or E30. Would you rather have an engineer tune your car or some guy?

 

[danbfree]

Just tell Stratified what mods you have and they send you a Flash tune. Customs tunes on the stock turbo are pointless

But, most tuners do send a semi-conservative lowest denominator/one size fits all type of tune to start with. So it would be nice to get a one-time adjustment for free or by paying for a one-time bump, but unfortunately that's not really offered, you only get a one-time safety check from there. So, many times there are *some* gains available from a custom tune or you can ask for more peak HP at the sacrifice of some torque or other specific requests, indeed you likely get 90% of possible overall gains from a good reputable flash tune alone which makes for great bang for the buck.

 

[danbfree]

Stratified for stock turbo. 91 93 or E30. Would you rather have an engineer tune your car or some guy?

Not sure who you are talking to since you don't use the reply button, but I definitely trust Alex and Jason 100% equally, I consider them both equals as far as tuning knowledge and safety, but definitely prefer Jason's tune overall. Still not sure why Alex thinks that requesting 26.75 psi on a pump tune (not e30) for a stock turbo makes sense when it doesn't help performance and in fact hurts it a little. So in a way he is pandering to people who brag about split second peak boost numbers over actual performance for marketing reasons and that'[s fine, that's his choice. Obviously, my conclusion on why he does that is my personal opinion, but either way, requesting a peak boost level closer to the the 23-24 you'll actually see sustained in the actual powerband leads to better smoothness and slower drop off of power up top. Also, myself and others would get strange carbon burning smells on Stratified but not other tunes that don't request quite so high of boost, so there's that. It also took Alex months to figure out why I was getting strange rev lift when shifting that other tunes didn't have either, but I give him credit for finally figuring it out and fixing it for free.

I'm not going to go back and forth on this, so again, overall I trust Alex and his insane knowledge overall but I have made my case why I don't care for his flavor of tune and I'm going to leave it at that.

 

[MRX330]

I quoted the OP and then responded again to him. Alex at Stratified is the engineer. Btw OP when I ran Strat’s tunes I had zero problems and was very happy with my car

 

[Mikey456]

Not sure who you are talking to since you don't use the reply button, but I definitely trust Alex and Jason 100% equally, I consider them both equals as far as tuning knowledge and safety, but definitely prefer Jason's tune overall. Still not sure why Alex thinks that requesting 26.75 psi on a pump tune (not e30) for a stock turbo makes sense when it doesn't help performance and in fact hurts it a little. So in a way he is pandering to people who brag about split second peak boost numbers over actual performance for marketing reasons and that'[s fine, that's his choice. Obviously, my conclusion on why he does that is my personal opinion, but either way, requesting a peak boost level closer to the the 23-24 you'll actually see sustained in the actual powerband leads to better smoothness and slower drop off of power up top. Also, myself and others would get strange carbon burning smells on Stratified but not other tunes that don't request quite so high of boost, so there's that. It also took Alex months to figure out why I was getting strange rev lift when shifting that other tunes didn't have either, but I give him credit for finally figuring it out and fixing it for free.

I'm not going to go back and forth on this, so again, overall I trust Alex and his insane knowledge overall but I have made my case why I don't care for his flavor of tune and I'm going to leave it at that.

While on this subject... I’m thinking about going with Stratified with the AP at some point. I could request boost limiting his tune to 23-24 or whatever I feel comfortable with. Would that not solve any issues dealing with higher boost pressure? Obviously, I will make less power but that’s not the most important thing for me. Smooth power delivery and traction are.

 

[Spork1569]

While on this subject... I’m thinking about going with Stratified with the AP at some point. I could request boost limiting his tune to 23-24 or whatever I feel comfortable with. Would that not solve any issues dealing with higher boost pressure? Obviously, I will make less power but that’s not the most important thing for me. Smooth power delivery and traction are.

Peak boost for most flash tunes is only 25 psi or so for their boost target, I think stratified aims for 26.5 psi. Either way I think the stock Turbo maxes out around 25 while in the power band.

The COBB OTS tunes can hit 23.5 psi on the stage 3 which only needs an intercooler to run well. If you're worried about too much boost pressure that's an option but I can definitely say even a flash tune is a world of difference from the COBB tunes(which are very conservative).