2016 FiST Dyno Run (Stock vs Livernois Motorsports) - 219whp / 277tq

[dyn085]

Yes, it must be off in order to do a pull.

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[LILIKE16ST]

Ahh, so you were referring to me. I was confused by what you were saying too.



Yes, in my opinion, you're missing something. You're referring to only the peak to peak gain difference. The biggest difference that I'm mainly referring to is in the difference between the under the curve gains between this one and the other one. Although, even the peak to peak gain differences in tq is decent at 25 ft/lb. The under the curve gains in the original car tuned at LMS on a dyno was 41hp and 81tq. The OP here in this thread only got less than HALF of that!

Now, a couple of other things I want to add. I'm not sure why you are seemingly getting defensive of LMS for my questions and observations. Ever since I came across that Livernois tune thread, I've been highly intrigued and 99% leaning towards Livernois over Cobb's AP for tuning. I would actually have the Livernois tuning device that Offthewall purchased but I had waited until I actually purchased my FiST, which was enough time for offthewall to snatch it away from me lol (no animosity towards offthewall at all by the way...it's my own fault).

The lack of dyno tune, the lack of 93 octane makes a little bit of a difference but according to LMS, not that much at all, which is why I asked LMS on their thoughts on the OP's dyno. The OP and I believe LMS both mentioned the limited time between pulls and the heatsoak from having a stock IC. OK, that pretty much satisfied me as an answer to my question (although, the original LMS tune was supposingly also completely stock, with the stock IC, so I guess the main difference might have been the limited time between pulls). Different parts of the country where one is hotter than the other probably contributes much to the difference as well.

Yes, it's still a big difference for just a tune for the OP of this thread. It's awesome. But my honest questions to LMS is because they claim "Gains of over 41hp and 81tq on your otherwise stock vehicle". I think I asked a legitimate question in my mind. The couple of others who have dynoed their cars didn't get quite the gains as the original car either. That's why I also asked about dyno tuning to see if that would give the best chance of getting close to the original car's gains.

Again, I agree this seems to be the best option in tuning, it seems like it may even be on par with custom tuning (does everyone feel that's true?). LMS looks to be like 8 hours away. I'm even still thinking about going there and getting it dyno tuned anyway just to squeeze some more out of it.

Sorry for the misunderstanding...not getting defensive didn't mean for it to come off that way. I was unaware of the differences in max gains due to the fact I did not check out the dyno graph of the op of this thread. Based on what ive read here I'd say its a combo of the things you mentioned; the fact it was tuned on 91 as opposed to 93, not dyno tuned and the fact the car was probably more heat soaked due to the differences in weather and limited time between pulls. Now it seems not having the traction control off can also throw things off a bit. The biggest thing is probably the ladder two but although tuning on 91 as opposed to 93 and being remote tuned as opposed to dyno tuned neither of those seemingly make a huge difference according to LMS but together along with these other things it could add up to a bit of a difference. Even still all things considered the op still picked up some very solid gains and I too believe this to be the best tuning option out there if you stick with regular pump gas and also I believe too that this tune is on par with most if not all pro tunes out there if not better. I am not paid or persuaded in any way by LMS or anyone else for things I say or to promote them I just feel the need to spread the word because they really know their stuff and this tune is AWESOME. I have got to get an upgraded FMIC to ensure maximum potential at all times. I plan on the extra large DHM one with crash bar. Down the road I plan on the CPE intake and full 3 inch cat less turbo back with an x37 hybrid turbo. I'm shooting for 280+ whp on 93 and I plan to make the 8 hour drive to Livernois to have them do the install and tune for it. I will talk more with them about that when it gets closer to time to do this. For now this tune is a definate kick in the pants and night and day over stock. I plan to do the FMIC and intake and catback now and I'll do the catless dp at the same time as the turbo.

 

[OffTheWall503]

At the dyno for another set of pulls.

Will post results soon.

 

[OffTheWall503]

Here at the dyno, I made sure TCS and stability control were off.

To compare, my highest pull last time was:
219 hp and 277.5 ft/lbs.

First two pulls today show:
221.8 hp and 280.6 ft/lbs
220.4 hp and 280.4 ft/lbs

We will be doing 3 more pulls shortly, going to let the car sit with the dyno fans on for 20 mins or so. Here's a picture of those graphs.

So not necessarily any power gained but the intercooler gives it more consistency.

 

[fST]

I would get a pic and/or print out of the entire graph (attached pic has the tq line being blocked) and also add the original stock pull, personally.

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[OffTheWall503]

I'll work on that when we're all done.

 

[LILIKE16ST]

Here at the dyno, I made sure TCS and stability control were off.

To compare, my highest pull last time was:
219 hp and 277.5 ft/lbs.

First two pulls today show:
221.8 hp and 280.6 ft/lbs
220.4 hp and 280.4 ft/lbs



We will be doing 3 more pulls shortly, going to let the car sit with the dyno fans on for 20 mins or so. Here's a picture of those graphs.

So not necessarily any power gained but the intercooler gives it more consistency.

Very impressive solid gains from stock for sure. You're now at around 16 whp and 42 wtq gained from stock...somewhere in that vicinity. Didn't expect big gains on the FMIC but its awesome to see that it definitely helped consistency I have got to get my FMIC upgraded I'm thinking im probably going with the huge DHM cooler with crash bar. Bigger the better far as I'm concerned even on the stock turbo. I'm planning a hybrid x37 in the future and it would really come in handy now and especially then. The cooling is really important with it due to the fact that it is pushing the limits of the stock turbo housing and therefor moving hot air. I have noticed sometimes I've got on mine hard since the tune and it will just straight haul ass and really get squiggly when I snatch 2nd and torque steer with trac control off....other times it is quicker then stock for sure but not quite as much I assume those times are when its more heat soaked and/or hotter out. Shows the importance of the FMIC upgrade ecspecially with a somewhat aggressive tune. Looking forward to the other 3 pulls....

 

[OffTheWall503]

This tune I would say is more on the aggressive side because at this point I'm close to or right at where Cobb Stage 2 would be. Efficiency and consistency is lacking if you don't have an upgraded intercooler.

 

[OffTheWall503]

Results of 3 fresh pulls:

225.6 hp and 285.6 ft/lbs
225.0 hp and 283.9 ft/lbs
226.3 hp and 278.7 ft/lbs

Roughly 5 hp and 5 tq gained from the 2 previous pulls 45 minutes prior. Can't say what the difference was during the 2nd session but maybe the car did adapt. Graphs will be posted soon.

 

[OffTheWall503]

Some pics from the shop:

2J swapped Cressida

Highest pull from last session vs 2 fresh pulls

The 3 pulls after that compared to highest stock pull last visit

Video:
[video=youtube;B5zVgJJVXUg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5zVgJJVXUg[/video]

Mods at time of dyno:
- Breedt RMM
- CFM Performance Symposer Delete and Valve Cover BReather
- Cobb drop-in air filter
- Denso ITV22 spark plugs
- FSWerks catback exhaust
- Mishimoto Oil Catch Can
- Mountune lower charge pipe
- MTC Front Mount Intercooler

Stock:

205.2 hp and 239 ft/lbs

Results of 3 pulls (I made sure TCS was off this time):

225.6 hp and 285.6 ft/lbs
225.0 hp and 283.9 ft/lbs
226.3 hp and 278.7 ft/lbs

So for some perspective, here is what a Stage 3 Cobb car gets.

I'm not saying this is equal to a Stage 3 or that it's as good. But bang for the buck it's hard to argue the numbers with what little mods I have to achieve this compared to a "Stage 3" Cobb car. Basically you would only need a drop-in air filter, new FMIC and (maybe) catback exhaust to achieve this. Even then I'd say the catback is optional. For roughly less than $1,200 you can pull "Stage 3" numbers with this tune, which to me, is pretty impressive.

 

[fST]

Yeah idk if I'd compare the numbers like that since different dynos and whatever else...but at least both are 91 octane. Comparing the gains achieved might be better though.

Also it's hard for me to see on my phone...what was the greatest under the curve tq gain?

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[OffTheWall503]

Highest torque pull was 285.6 ft/lbs. Greatest gain in power is 21.1 hp and torque is 46.3 ft/lbs.

I know it's tough to compare one car to another and one dyno pull to another, but it's worth throwing out that rough comparison for that they spent to achieve that compared to what someone would spend to achieve my numbers. I'm still scratching my head at how that other gain managed to gain 65 ft/lbs.

The Cobb Stage 3 car I was referring to saw gains of 25.8 hp and 50.4 ft/lbs. Again, different car, different dyno but rough comparisons.

 

[fST]

Actually if just comparing the amount if gains, they're pretty much the same aren't they? At least as far as peak? Not sure about under the curve though.

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[fST]

Highest torque pull was 285.6 ft/lbs. Greatest gain in power is 21.1 hp and torque is 46.3 ft/lbs.

I know it's tough to compare one car to another and one dyno pull to another, but it's worth throwing out that rough comparison for that they spent to achieve that compared to what someone would spend to achieve my numbers.

I'm just referring to instead of saying hey they got 220hp and 277tq, I got 226hp and 286tq (or whatever the exact numbers are) look at what each peak gain and largest under the curve gain is and compare that.

ETA:. Ahh I see you edited your post adding in the info I asked for before. LOL you edit your posts A LOT don't you? Lol

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[OffTheWall503]

Better to edit than post multiple times, haha!

 

[808FiST]

Good solid gains, irregardless of the numbers, and the FMIC does make the power more consistent, as we all know. I suspect the turbo is at max flow given the tune. The area under the curve is nice and confirms what I felt with the car being able to pull to 6000 rpm before running out of steam. It's a nice, gradual, and linear taper from 5000 rpm onward. Thanks for doing this.

 

[fST]

Did you just say irregardless?? Lol

In all seriousness, I definitely appreciate you doing all of this offthewall. It's good to see actual numbers from customer cars!

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[808FiST]

Haha... what I meant was numbers are numbers. The area under the curve is solid, and I am more interested in that.

Did you just say irregardless?? Lol