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2016 fiesta st overheating

Intuit

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If that voids any claims at all, it would only be turbo and engine. Transmission and any other part should remain unaffected. If you paid for the part, would they install it without labor charges? Bottom line, loosing another customer to Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, BMW, Mercedes, Acura, Lexus, Fiat-Chrysler, GM, etcetera, etc, is not a big deal. Inflexibility has always been a problem.
 


M-Sport fan

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I'm guessing that the main reason they cannot do this is because if the cooling is made TOO efficient, it becomes an emissions/EPA/CAFE/etc. issue, and not something that they certified the car with, and they as a company cannot dare to cross those agencies to correct a problem (yup, even if it means losing yet another customer to the Nippon/Korean giants :( ).
 


me32

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So...to those who believe it's a fluke and statistically improbable....my 2016 FiST is in the shop for...wait....OVERHEATING... completely stock. But that's not all. This is my SECOND FiST with an overheating problem. I've written alot here about my 2014 FiST that started overheating @20k then the dealer could never diagnose only to find 3K after the drivetrain warranty expired that I had the dreaded cylinder 3 coolant issue. Engine was replaced only to have it too start overheating. Sold car at a major loss and purchased my current 2016. This one now started overheating at around 18k and now sits at the shop after limp mode three times in ambient temps of 95, 90 and 87 degrees. I will keep y'all posted on the outcome but this has no gotten to where I am unable to drive in ambient temps over 85 in traffic. I have been able to grab some data with Forscan that shows the intake air temp spikes to 150 degrees which overwhelms the cooling system. Coolant spikes to 245+.
Was yours an early build 2016? Since ford updated the heads for the 2016 models but unsure of when they actually starting puting the updated heads on.
 


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I'm guessing that the main reason they cannot do this is because if the cooling is made TOO efficient, it becomes an emissions/EPA/CAFE/etc. issue, and not something that they certified the car with, and they as a company cannot dare to cross those agencies to correct a problem (yup, even if it means losing yet another customer to the Nippon/Korean giants :( ).
I’m pretty sure that unless the thermostat is removed or faulty the engine can’t be over cooled.
 


M-Sport fan

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I’m pretty sure that unless the thermostat is removed or faulty the engine can’t be over cooled.
True, but Ford did not test and EPA/CAFE certify, the Mountune radiator in this car, and it could keep the temps below (regardless of what thermostat is in there) what they regard as the maximal/optimum 'thermal efficiency' hot running to meet those said EPA/CAFE thresholds.
 


me32

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True, but Ford did not test and EPA/CAFE certify, the Mountune radiator in this car, and it could keep the temps below (regardless of what thermostat is in there) what they regard as the maximal/optimum 'thermal efficiency' hot running to meet those said EPA/CAFE thresholds.
This right here.
 


alexrex20

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An engine can certainly be overcooled. The thermostat is spec'd at its temperature for a reason. It's not exactly unsafe to overcool an engine but it certainly is not efficient. Up north it's not uncommon for trucks to cardboard their radiators to restrict airflow because it is overcooling and not letting the engine get up to temperature.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 


me32

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An engine can certainly be overcooled. The thermostat is spec'd at its temperature for a reason. It's not exactly unsafe to overcool an engine but it certainly is not efficient. Up north it's not uncommon for trucks to cardboard their radiators to restrict airflow because it is overcooling and not letting the engine get up to temperature.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
During the winter time im sure that helps warm it up.
 


jmrtsus

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Oh I agree. Even suggested that last time but was told that it would most certainly void any warranty claims in the future.
No much of a chance of that......never ask a dealer about your warranty......90% don't even know Mountune exists. You have an 800 number to call to ask the people that warrant your car. And that is not the dealer. Your warranty is with Ford not the dealer. Ford trying to claim a radiator caused engine damage would be a stretch. Ford does not warrant all Mountune items so Mountune lets you know if they do or not. Has nothing to do with certifying the car at a certain temp. It has to meet emissions at all temps not just "normal". They are not going to let you add a Mountune radiator to your warranty, nor an exhaust, or intake...........


In your state you seem to have only two options for Lemon law help.

(a) The same defect or condition continues to exist even though the car has been subjected to repair a total of four or more times within two years of the date of the first attempt to repair the defect or condition.

(b) The vehicle is out of service because of repairs for a total of 30 or more days or parts of days during the term of the manufacturer's express warranty or within one year from the date of delivery to the original consumer, whichever comes first. This option does not require the same problem to be the cause of the days out of service.

Good luck. Have you taken it to the same dealer each time? Could be idiot service people.
 


M-Sport fan

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^^^So would Ford then have to PROVE that the Mountune radiator actually caused said engine damage, on a DIRECT causal, one to one basis (Moss Magnuson) in order to deny an engine warranty?? [???:)]
 


jmrtsus

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^^^So would Ford then have to PROVE that the Mountune radiator actually caused said engine damage, on a DIRECT causal, one to one basis (Moss Magnuson) in order to deny an engine warranty?? [???:)]
I actually did a lot of reading about MM. All MM does is offers free binding arbitration between you and Ford, it has zero to do with the dealer, it cannot make the dealer do anything. Any warranty beef is between you and Ford. Ford pays the dealer to do authorized work, if there is a dispute you present your evidence and Ford presents theirs, it is usually just a letter from a Ford engineer stating in generic terms why Ford is denying your claim. If they say it was the radiator they have to provide evidence which says if you were using the stock radiator this would not happen, all documented in already existing testing. It is up to YOU to prove your radiator meets Fords specs, not Fords job to test every radiator out there and prove it does not. If the radiator was a replacement radiator the company will have the documents for you free. Like Fram will provide proof their filters meet Ford specs. If you have proof the radiator meets Fords specs they will honor it. The arbitrator makes a decision based on whose proof is valid. Ford who has a financial relationship with Mountune is not going to tell the arbitrator a product Ford sells for profit is junk do you think? Very few cases go to arbitration mainly because it usually would cost Ford as much to fight it as to fix it and Ford does not want a record of many MM arbitration's. And also because many tuners/modders find out that Ford is not dumb and most scams are caught. With turbo cars you have new items that have come along. Like an inter cooler, put one in that does not block air flow and cools as well as the original and you will have no problems unless it fails. For example neither the Mountune nor Cobb as I understand it, affects radiator air flow and again I can't see Ford going to arbitration over a product they sell. Put an Acme supersize that blocks half the radiator and I can see Ford not repairing a warped head due to overheating. All MM did was insure that common parts like filters and hoses/belts would not void warranties and give you if you have a legit claim a free way to settle it. Many people think it is a hammer to make a dealer do something. The dealer could care less about MM, they are out if it. It bothers me people are having problems with their '16's overheating, hope somebody clears it up.
 


Intuit

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An engine can certainly be overcooled. The thermostat is spec'd at its temperature for a reason. It's not exactly unsafe to overcool an engine but it certainly is not efficient. Up north it's not uncommon for trucks to cardboard their radiators to restrict airflow because it is overcooling and not letting the engine get up to temperature.
Many thermostats have a bypass that allows for a small amount of flow. Otherwise air could get trapped up against the thermostat and artificially raise or prevent its opening. The bypass in my prior car was defective and used the cardboard in that case. I could go for a drive and rest my hand on the head afterward; just warm. Otherwise it could be five degrees and highway and output toasty heat. (took awhile to get toasty though)
 


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Thx for the relply....BUT...much of the info you've presented regarding Moss Magnuson is not correct. We are VERY familiar with the Act and VERY familiar with Ford's approach to it. One might say too familiar. In Michigan, lemon law does not apply to this situation, but MM does. MM is a federal Act that provides for remedy where consumers feel the company is not in compliance with the Act. It is NOT arbitration like you say, in fact arbitration is non-existent in this situation in Michigan. The consumer is able to sure in federal court as remedy. I'm not sure on your experience with MM, but the way you've described it is not accurate unfortunately.

I too agree that it's time for someone to figure this thing out for '16s!!
 


jmrtsus

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Thx for the relply....BUT...much of the info you've presented regarding Moss Magnuson is not correct. We are VERY familiar with the Act and VERY familiar with Ford's approach to it. One might say too familiar. In Michigan, lemon law does not apply to this situation, but MM does. MM is a federal Act that provides for remedy where consumers feel the company is not in compliance with the Act. It is NOT arbitration like you say, in fact arbitration is non-existent in this situation in Michigan. The consumer is able to sure in federal court as remedy. I'm not sure on your experience with MM, but the way you've described it is not accurate unfortunately.

I too agree that it's time for someone to figure this thing out for '16s!!

As I explained, it provides for free arbitration, don't know where you got your info but I printed it below for you, the process is as I described. It only allows three way to take action on the Act. First is arbitration. You also have the option to sue in federal court if you have many thousands to pay a Lawyer and your damages are over $50K. Your third remedy is State court and again you pay attorneys if you lose. So most people take the arbitration route. I think you are confusing state laws and MM. See the legal remedies below for M-M. The first line states that "arbitration" or as the feds put it "informal dispute-settlement procedures" is used with Courts being an option. I filed with the FTC and we went to an arbitrator just like the act says unless you want the lawyer route. I lost to Dodge because the timing belt used for a replacement broke and destroyed the engine. The dodge rep showed documents on the factory belt, I showed a receipt for the Gates brand belt we used. Arbitrator ask for proof the belt met Chrysler specs and I did not have any documents proving it. Gates would have provided the documents showing the belt met specs. No do overs, I lost and we spent $6k on a rebuilt engine. Had I known then what I know now I would have won. So, don't know what your experience was but mine was just as it was explained it would be in the M-M Act. Below is an explanation of the act and the actual act wording on the "arbitration" as such. No State can circumvent a Federal law, did you actually file a complaint with the FTC or just filed on the M-M Act in state Court?

Explanation of the act

Remedies under the Act
The act is meant to provide consumers with access to reasonable and effective remedies where there is a breach of warranty on a consumer product. The act provides for informal dispute-settlement procedures and for actions brought by the government and by private parties.

The FTC has been mandated by Congress to promulgate rules to encourage the use of alternative dispute resolution, and full warranties may require mediation and/or arbitration as a first step toward settling disputes.

In addition, the federal government has the authority to take injunctive action against a supplier or warrantor who fails to meet the requirements of the act.

Finally, consumers may seek redress in the courts for alleged violations of the Magnuson–Moss Act. A consumer who has been injured by a supplier's noncompliance may bring an action in federal court if the amount in controversy is over $50,000 or a class action if the number of class plaintiffs is greater than 100. If the jurisdictional amount, or number of plaintiffs, does not meet these thresholds, an action under the act may be brought only in state court.[10] Moreover, one of the key aids to the effectiveness of the act is that a prevailing plaintiff may recover reasonable costs of suit, including attorney fees.[11]


The actual code

(a) Informal dispute settlement procedures; establishment; rules setting forth minimum requirements; effect of compliance by warrantor; review of informal procedures or implementation by Commission; application to existing informal procedures
(1) Congress hereby declares it to be its policy to encourage warrantors to establish procedures whereby consumer disputes are fairly and expeditiously settled through informal dispute settlement mechanisms.
(2) The Commission shall prescribe rules setting forth minimum requirements for any informal dispute settlement procedure which is incorporated into the terms of a written warranty to which any provision of this chapter applies. Such rules shall provide for participation in such procedure by independent or governmental entities
 


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Thx again. Quite versed on the Act and I can only say that my knowledge of the process is quite extensive and it is geared more at the buyback processes and not payment of warranty coverage. I can't speak to your specific case either. So I will be seeking a complete return of the vehicle under the act and not warranty coverage for repair because I am not longer interested in having engines replaced on this flawed engineered vehicle. My experience with Ford engines over the past 5 years includes no less than 4 self destructing engines. The first two were in my mazdaspeed3 with the dreaded hydrolock PCV system and now two (three actually) due to cooling issues in my Fist. Ive also got a 2018 Edge Sport with engine problems and just got rid of a 2015 Edge Sport with engine and trans issues. Even though we're a Ford family, can't justify the purchase anymore even with the A-plan discount if I'm replacing engines every year. I do not trust Ford forced induction engines at this point. I'd love to have my old Pontiac 400 at this point to be perfectly honest. ;)
 


jmrtsus

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Thx again. Quite versed on the Act and I can only say that my knowledge of the process is quite extensive and it is geared more at the buyback processes and not payment of warranty coverage. I can't speak to your specific case either. So I will be seeking a complete return of the vehicle under the act and not warranty coverage for repair because I am not longer interested in having engines replaced on this flawed engineered vehicle. My experience with Ford engines over the past 5 years includes no less than 4 self destructing engines. The first two were in my mazdaspeed3 with the dreaded hydrolock PCV system and now two (three actually) due to cooling issues in my Fist. Ive also got a 2018 Edge Sport with engine problems and just got rid of a 2015 Edge Sport with engine and trans issues. Even though we're a Ford family, can't justify the purchase anymore even with the A-plan discount if I'm replacing engines every year. I do not trust Ford forced induction engines at this point. I'd love to have my old Pontiac 400 at this point to be perfectly honest. ;)
Love the Pontiac 400, would kill for an early Formula, just helped build a 6.2 for sons Trans-Am. I should say I built the heads he did the short block. I used M-M for warranty coverage to try to get our car repaired. That process was easy. I would not bother with M-M in my State to return a car, our Lemon law is good and free...no lawyers. If I am not mistaken your state Lemon law requires 4 attempts to repair or 30 days out of service, pretty weak Lemon law. Most states I am familiar with is three strikes you're out! I don't blame you for being frustrated, you just have some serious bad luck with cars. So do I, last month I ripped the drivers side mirror off, this month a pothole ate a tire and wheel. $500 in deductibles in two months! Find a nice Formula 400, my son is now building a V6 "bird" for a DD, his Trans-Am is eating his lunch in gas. Other than a white with blue stripes 1969 Formula 400 clone I hate GM! Good luck on your battles, I lost my chance with M-M due to my failure to research what I was up against. The process was simple but Chrysler was ready and I was not.

We have my FiST and a '17 Escape with the 1.6l Turbo's in the family and both have been flawless and never seen the dealer since we drove off. so far we are good.
 


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Since my radiator swap I started tracking the coolant level and have noticed a gradual reduction. I wish I had looked at this before the swap. The system held vacuum fine when I filled it with my vacuum filler. Here are some pics of the expansion tank over the past month and a half. First one is from 6/20 (fluid is right at the seam in this one), second is from 5/24 and the third is from 5/9. Anyone else seen this?
 


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M-Sport fan

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^^^Is this with a FACTORY replacement Ford part, or one of the upgraded aftermarket units? (Sorry, I did not look back through the whole thread.)

In any case, are you (or the dealer) SURE that the system was bled/'burped' properly, and over days of use, after that initial install/fill?
 


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