15x8 and 225/50's

[ericr]

This will redirect to the "Meaty tire" thread

 

[ericr]

After a couple weeks now with these tires, I have to admit that I made a mistake. The tread and section widths are too big for these et35 offset wheels. They rub both front and rear at stock ride height.

I could get the fronts to fit by removing the fender/bumper bracket and fabricating some Dzus fastener plates. I pulled the rears but they still rub at the narrowest part of the fender just behind the doors. There's not enough material there to reshape so the tire will clear.

These tires would probably fit fine with a set of et48 wheels and some 10mm spacers up front.

I'm going to sell the 225/50's and replace them with the 205/50 versions. I really like the tires. The 205's are about the same size as 225/45 street tires - same tread width and overall diameter but narrower section width which I have found to be important with these wheels.

Oh, and those ST logo centercaps in my photos are all gone. Brake heat melts them and they fall out. They might be fine for around town use though.

 

[Waterfan]

Awesome that you share your learnings for benefit of the community.

+100 internets for you, good sir.

 

[M-Sport fan]

YES, THANK YOU ERICR for posting this!

I was ready to do that same exact setup on mine when I got it, so even though I'm sad that you had to go through this, I am glad you posted the problem.

It IS a shame though since that setup looked as great, (wicked actually ), as it could potentially function (if it did not rub everywhere of course).

 

[Thirty-Two]

Was already planning in 6 months to step up to 225/50 from my current 205/50, and have the fenders rolled, was thinking it would work out just enough to be perfect, but after your experience probably not going that route without getting some different wheels. (mine are et30 and I finally found some dips that rub the fronts)

Thanks for the valuable post!

 

[StayPuft]

Fwiw I have those same eBay center cap stickers on a set of eBay center caps and they have held fine for the last 5k of street driving.

 

[BronxBomber]

Was already planning in 6 months to step up to 225/50 from my current 205/50, and have the fenders rolled, was thinking it would work out just enough to be perfect, but after your experience probably not going that route without getting some different wheels. (mine are et30 and I finally found some dips that rub the fronts)

Thanks for the valuable post!

What about the more common 225/45/15?? a bit smaller. Can always try that. That's the size I'll be using when my 6UL come in.

 

[M-Sport fan]

What about the more common 225/45/15?? a bit smaller. Can always try that. That's the size I'll be using when my 6UL come in.

Will that .8" to .9" height difference be enough to totally prevent the rubbing/scraping on compressions/bumps, and hard cornering (at stock height and on stock suspension), without all of the fender pulling/rolling/liner cutting rigamarole??

That is, IF one is willing to live with the (yes, function over form peeps), aesthetic only negative of a 'gravel rally ride height look' with tiny wheels underneath the fenders.

 

[ericr]

Here's the dimensions of my 225/50 Toyo R888's along with some alternatives that I'm considering;

I found that my worst clearance issue was with the section width rubbing on the rear fenders right behind the doors.

My section width was 9.1 inches. I'm concerned that running 8.9" section width with 225/45 tires could also rub on this part of the fender, especially for those cars that are lowered. My overall diameter is 23.7", 225/45's run 23". If you drop the car 1 inch or so, what's going to happen? If anyone has this combo, have you rubbed under full compression?

I think I'm going with the Toyo's in 205/50 because of their narrower section width.

(The Rival and Ventus should have been 225/45 in the table.)

 

[BronxBomber]

Will that .8" to .9" height difference be enough to totally prevent the rubbing/scraping on compressions/bumps, and hard cornering (at stock height and on stock suspension), without all of the fender pulling/rolling/liner cutting rigamarole??

That is, IF one is willing to live with the (yes, function over form peeps), aesthetic only negative of a 'gravel rally ride height look' with tiny wheels underneath the fenders.

You will still have to roll fenders and may have to pull a little.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yes, the RE-71Rs are VERY narrow tires as far as tread width goes.

I guess that they make up for their skinny tread width by using a super gummy compound, and that's why they are the go to autocross 200 tread wear tire right now, even though B-stone makes very few sizes in this tire?

I also want to know about ANY rubbing issues (compressions/bumps/turns/etc.) with the 225/45-15 tires, and on which offsets, anyone has had both at stock height/suspension setup and when lowered on stiffly sprung coil over setups.

 

[StayPuft]

I have 205/50 very low (1 finger) with coilovers and it only rubs when turning while descending in parking garages.

 

[ericr]

I had mentioned a week ago that I was going on a road trip with these new tires. I thought I'd give some feedback on these R888's.

In 8 days, I covered 3,970 miles in the West. Much of it was in canyon type driving where I completely bottomed the suspension in every way possible. They are the best DOT street tires I've ever run. They have tremendous grip and are very communicative with lots of warning near the limits. Even after running them hard on this trip, I still have over 2/3 of the tread left. In rain, I think they are no worse than max performance street tires such as my AD08R's.

Several times on this trip, I got the tires fully up to temp where the tread is melting and abrading off like a gum-rubber eraser. The grip is exponentially better than my Advan AD08R's.

They grip so hard, that I'm being rolled out of my Recaro's upper seat bolsters. My thoughts of needing a LSD went away with this level of grip. Even in 10mph turns, no wheel spin. They also behave like a street tire in that their minimum performance temp is 160 degrees. Unlike other DOT R tires that need lots of heat to keep them from sliding, these get up to temp within minutes of normal street driving. Drive them for 5 minutes and you're ready to go! At those temps, you have incredible grip and you're not cycling the tires.

The 50 series sidewalls were a concern initially for turn-in response. There is no wait for the sidewalls to roll-over and take a set despite being on 8" wide rims (which incidentally is Toyo's recommended width). Turn-in response is instantaneous. There is no squirming of slip angles. By the time you're doing a 5-7 degree slip angle, this thing is probably pulling 1.4 g's on this car with stock springs and bars. And, it's incredibly neutral at 36/34 hot.

This car was made for these tires. I hope someone will get wheels in the offsets I've mentioned to enjoy what I experienced.

Oh, btw I installed the DIY brake cooling ducts from a post on the other forum just before this road trip. Last year on these same roads, I had fade with R4 pads and Torque fluid. This year, stock pads and Torque fluid had no fade. This would work on the track too. Stock pads don't have as much braking torque, but they don't chew rotors. I think it's a good balance for a road car and occasional HPDE days.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I WISH that TD made these wheels in an offset that would allow us to use these exact tires, in this size.

They sound like exactly what I want, and look about as great as any 15" setup can on these cars, unless one does the 4x100 PCD hub conversion and uses the Helixes in 15x9.

It's a damned shame that they scrape/rub everywhere.

The Porterfields were eating rotors for breakfast, lunch and dinner??
Is the R4 their first step/lower temp, full race compound (as compared to the R4S being their street/autocross compound)?

 

[Thirty-Two]

What about the more common 225/45/15?? a bit smaller. Can always try that. That's the size I'll be using when my 6UL come in.

Already kind of explained. If i was getting a new set I would go with a overall larger diameter as much as I can fit, will be doing alot of highway next year and every bit helps. Going 225/45/15 means almost every tire set would be about 450+ (and not be the correct tire) vs. the tire I was going to get which would be at 300 and would suit my use (all seasons). 225/45, they may be more common, only if you're wanting a street/autocross tire, (which would add risk on slick n' swamped Florida roads).
I would also get a slightly taller ride height with would help me on the dirt roads around here.

 

[Thirty-Two]

Will that .8" to .9" height difference be enough to totally prevent the rubbing/scraping on compressions/bumps, and hard cornering (at stock height and on stock suspension), without all of the fender pulling/rolling/liner cutting rigamarole??

That is, IF one is willing to live with the (yes, function over form peeps), aesthetic only negative of a 'gravel rally ride height look' with tiny wheels underneath the fenders.

For some of us that that negative is really a positive, at least for me it's trying to make the car as versatile as possible. Tiny wheels means less rotational weight, better ride, protection. And that gravel rally ride height is needed on the backroads. Also couldn't find wheels as cheap as I did in 16 vs the current 15 which were something like 320 for a complete set, brand new.

 

[BronxBomber]

Already kind of explained. If i was getting a new set I would go with a overall larger diameter as much as I can fit, will be doing alot of highway next year and every bit helps.

Can you explain what driving on he highway has to do with running the widest tire possible?? If you were tracking the car, that would make sense, but if you're predominantly highway driving and want something with a higher tread wear rating, I would think maximum performance is not your objective. Which then beckons the question. "Why are you obsessed with running the widest tire unless it's purely aesthetics you're after?

 

[BronxBomber]

For some of us that that negative is really a positive, at least for me it's trying to make the car as versatile as possible. Tiny wheels means less rotational weight, better ride, protection.

In regards to weight, also
Keep in mind the weight of he tire. The fatter and taller the tire the more weight. Something a lot of people ignore. Some people go with a wheel that's 2lbs lighter but then he tires they use are 1-2lbs heavier, so actually not gaining much of anything. Not saying this is your situation, just something I've noticed people don't consider:

 

[Thirty-Two]

Can you explain what driving on he highway has to do with running the widest tire possible?? If you were tracking the car, that would make sense, but if you're predominantly highway driving and want something with a higher tread wear rating, I would think maximum performance is not your objective. Which then beckons the question. "Why are you obsessed with running the widest tire unless it's purely aesthetics you're after?

Yeah no problem. Let me explain. First off it's not the only option I still have. I could just jump to 205/55. I would do 215/50 or 215/55 as well but tirerack does not currently supply them. And the type of tire I'm looking at getting is only available in 225/50 or 205/50. Of course in 6 months that could change. Not tracking the car, but I do drive hard and extra grip is never a bad thing. And the 205 on a 15x8 plus the et30 is just enough that my wheels poke which means curb rash if I'm not entirely careful, even with a lip on the tire.

Not obsessed with running the widest tire, but it was one of my options to see what works. Go big or go home.

 

[ericr]

The Porterfields were eating rotors for breakfast, lunch and dinner??
Is the R4 their first step/lower temp, full race compound (as compared to the R4S being their street/autocross compound)?

The R4 is the full race compound. My front rotors lasted about 5k miles on the street. Replacements are really cheap though.