Ecoboost Intake Valve Carbon build up ?

[MOFiST]

^this is one part I don't fully understand either. I also can't see software being able to fix this. It's funny he mentioned a catch can voiding your warranty. Lol how's a catch can properly rigged doing anything bad to the engine?
I was poking around the FoST forums and noticed aquamist are working on an IDC multi port specific setup for the FoST. I imagine this will probably transition well to the FiST.

 

[Sourskittle]

Between the turbine and the exhaust valve there is pressure. The temp and pressure difference between the manifold/turbine and the downpipe/exhaust/outside air is what makes expanding gases and spools/spins the turbo. The pressure difference is a big deal. It effects EGT's greatly. Next time I have MY manifold off, I'm actually going to install a fitting for a mechanical boost gauge to measure this pressure.

The "swirling" on the intake maybe true. Swirling or flowing or moving, what ever you want to call it. Its really just "EGR". "Scavenging" would be nice and it prob does to a point when its in spool mode or something, but no way this turbo setup has a 1:1 ratio at 20psi. Ford own "PR"/"pressure ratio" estimates go into the 1:2+ area stock. The guys that are pushing 23-28psi on the stock turbo are prob at 1:3.

 

[Sourskittle]

^this is one part I don't fully understand either. I also can't see software being able to fix this. It's funny he mentioned a catch can voiding your warranty. Lol how's a catch can properly rigged doing anything bad to the engine?
I was poking around the FoST forums and noticed aquamist are working on an IDC multi port specific setup for the FoST. I imagine this will probably transition well to the FiST.

I wonder how aquamist is getting the IDC. They actually have made an IDC kit for many many years already ( ERL or the Perrin PW-2 ), just not sure how they plan to adopt it to the focus ST. The fost and fiesta use different types of injectors, so I hope it can transition the fost kit to the fiesta.

 

[MOFiST]

Thinking about this it's not gonna work with our intake manifold being a multi port setup.

 

[MOFiST]

IDC based flow could probably still work. They reckon it's more accurate than boost based systems.

 

[Sourskittle]

I agree it could be more accurate. But honestly... What was so wrong with boost based systems? Lol. I thought controllers that ramp injection up with boost worked pretty well.

A fist with a stock turbo would be like my srt4 was. Kinda pointless to have it ramp up. Your either at 21psi or 0psi or tapping down off boost, lol. So on a fiesta with a stock turbo, you'd prob want a setting like 13.5psi ( since it can tapper the boost down at low at redline ), and a turn on point of ?? 10-12psi? Lol. Is there really much "ramping" going on from 10psi to 13psi? Lol.

I think I just answered my own question about IDC vs boost control though didn't I, lol.

 

[MOFiST]

I agree it's over kill unless your BT already. But with the torque based boost targets the ECU uses this could probably be tuned better?

 

[MOFiST]

I think for most of us a simple setup with an excellent failsafe would make the most sense.
For me if I do meth I'm reluctant to tune for it (not that i can any way) but rather just use as a mild octane booster/valve cleaner. I will probably go with a this after warranty expires and Ford have washed their hands of the dirty valve "non issue".

 

[Sourskittle]

I always used 100% meth, but... I'm a little less desperate for power now, so when I go WI, I'll prob use 25%meth, 25% water, 50%E85. Basically wiper fluid and E85 split. But it depends on what the car likes. I'm sure if/when I get into it, I'll test different mixes. E85 is still 30 miles from my house, its just too good not to use... I gave 93oct 2 weeks ( ok 9 days ) to try and tune it. No way... I needed E30 again and I actually found a bit more fuel I can squeeze out of the system and I'm currently running E50 ( 11.8 stoich ). So... I may have some new V-dynos later, lol.

 

[Sourskittle]

The fist prob would be JUST FINE with a proper kit, and a pressure switch set to 12psi.

 

[MOFiST]

Will you use your washer tank for the reso? That's what I'll likely do.
Also will you dance with devilsown again? I like the look of the DVC-30 kit.

 

[Sourskittle]

The stock wiper tank is 3/4 gal or almost a full gal. Its a little small to me. Looking back, I thought my DO kit used a 2 quart tank and it wasn't bad. But I'm not thinking it was a gal. I really can't remember.

So if/when... I'm thinking i'll use the stock wiper tank and put the pump upfront and low. Then use the stock washer tank pump in a /nd tank in the rear. When the "low fluid" switch closes, it will flip a relay that runs the pump in the rear ( which will come from the stock washer tank ) to pump the fluid from the rear to the fluid in the front. That way... I'll have a small tank up front and extra fluid in the rear, but the front tank will always be full.

I wont buy a DO kit. I think AEM has the best kit you can buy right now. Alkyinjection .com has the best pump$

 

[MOFiST]

I like your thinking here. I don't think we have a low fluid warning though do we? I remember guys talking about that.
I know you had a bad run with DO pumps. Do you reckon it was due to running straight meth?
AEM do a progressive MAP based kit similar to the DVC-30. Could be the one to get then.

 

[Sourskittle]

My problem with DO was actually the check valves. I had 3 fail. The last time I bought a $43 one that failed right out the box using water ( which is what bent my rods ). The pumps I ate, no doubt came from 100% meth and they replaced them without too much fuss.

If you look into it, DO pumps surge at 150psi. They have a built in 150psi valve or something. They kind of pulse. AEM's newer kits run in the 260psi range ( crazy ). They also have the flow-gauge that can drop boost or reduce timing if the system loses flow at anytime. Its the safest way I've ever seen.

I was told that they all basically use the same controller under the skin, but i can't confirm that.

All these places CLAIM to be 100% meth compatible, but I'm not so sure still. Alky injection .com is the only place that if you call them and ask " hey should I use a mix of water/meth or what?". They will say, "use 100% meth and nothing else, its the only way to fly". To me, that says a lot about of their pumps and parts. They also use real lines/hoses, not plastic hoses ( which I did have a plastic hose chaff and leak one time where I routes the pressure line over the trans ).

For me, it would just be for cleaning, and If i do add a bit more power somehow ( like a bigger intercooler, race 2J style intake, and ditch the stock turbo outlet ) and need more fuel, I may rely on it for a .5 extra afr of fuel above 6k rpms while at the track or something, but its mainly going to be for washing oil out ( until I build my exhaust vacuum port tied to a catch-can ) and to keep the carbon off the valves and prevent it from reducing power over time or causing future valve seal issues.

 

[MOFiST]

I'm thinking I'll tap my Airtec fmic endtank and spray in there. That's if the throttle body idea doesn't happen. Do you reckon valve corrosion will be an issue? I've never heard of that being an issue.

 

[Sourskittle]

I haven't read or seen anything with dfi turbo cars having an issue with valve seals, but I think it could be a problem. That carbon/crude is building up on the valve's stem. That stem rides in and out of the valve seal. That seal is only going to scrap off the carbon for so long before the carbon starts to wear on the seal and cause it to leak. Once the valve stem leaks, it lets oil onto the valve and the problem will compound quickly IF THIS HAPPENS. From my friends 11k mile car, that valve seal looked to have been already been getting some contact with carbon.

WI nozzle placement leaves us with something to think about...

The closer to the combustion chamber, the better the cleaning and the better the cylinder cooling will be ( boost in octane sorta ). On the flip side. After the intercooler, but before the TIP sensor ( aka change air temp sensor ), will cool the charge temp more effectively. It also will let the pcm see the cooler charge temps and adjust timing automatically for better performance. The combustion chamber cooling will only tune its self in over time as the pcm continues to add timing in, pull after pull to until it sees knock and starts to back off. When you cool that charge temp sensor, the timing advance will be "real time live". Right then. I also like the idea of being able to SEE and LOG cooler charge temps vs just hoping and assuming everything is working since no other sensor besides the CAT sensor ( aka TIP ) can tell me its working. If I do 1,2,3,4th gear pull and my chage temp never went above 10 degrees of what it is outside ( or maybe BELOW outside temps ), then... The WI is working and doing its job. But if you put tue nozzle in the throttle body or right before the blade or tapped into the intake manifold or in a spaces between the intake/head, then the only way you'll see if the system is working, is to watch the knock corrections, lol.

Besides cleaning, I'd be in it for combustion cooling ( my pressure ratio is high, its just the nature of a turbo like this ). So I thought about duel injectors into the plenium bulge. I want max cylinder cooling and I already have a ton of control over timing events. For someone without access tuner, I'd say in the intercooler outlet pipe would be great. Me personally, that's a little hard to get to for jet/nozzle changes, so I'd goto where I could at least change the nozzles without removing the front bumper.

Seeing that with 11k miles, def got my attention.

 

[re-rx7]

Or just buy a Catch can and VTA. Also, Ford did a torture test on the V6 Eco and it was still doing fine at 180k miles?

 

[re-rx7]

I haven't read or seen anything with dfi turbo cars having an issue with valve seals, but I think it could be a problem. That carbon/crude is building up on the valve's stem. That stem rides in and out of the valve seal. That seal is only going to scrap off the carbon for so long before the carbon starts to wear on the seal and cause it to leak. Once the valve stem leaks, it lets oil onto the valve and the problem will compound quickly IF THIS HAPPENS. From my friends 11k mile car, that valve seal looked to have been already been getting some contact with carbon.

WI nozzle placement leaves us with something to think about...

The closer to the combustion chamber, the better the cleaning and the better the cylinder cooling will be ( boost in octane sorta ). On the flip side. After the intercooler, but before the TIP sensor ( aka change air temp sensor ), will cool the charge temp more effectively. It also will let the pcm see the cooler charge temps and adjust timing automatically for better performance. The combustion chamber cooling will only tune its self in over time as the pcm continues to add timing in, pull after pull to until it sees knock and starts to back off. When you cool that charge temp sensor, the timing advance will be "real time live". Right then. I also like the idea of being able to SEE and LOG cooler charge temps vs just hoping and assuming everything is working since no other sensor besides the CAT sensor ( aka TIP ) can tell me its working. If I do 1,2,3,4th gear pull and my chage temp never went above 10 degrees of what it is outside ( or maybe BELOW outside temps ), then... The WI is working and doing its job. But if you put tue nozzle in the throttle body or right before the blade or tapped into the intake manifold or in a spaces between the intake/head, then the only way you'll see if the system is working, is to watch the knock corrections, lol.

Besides cleaning, I'd be in it for combustion cooling ( my pressure ratio is high, its just the nature of a turbo like this ). So I thought about duel injectors into the plenium bulge. I want max cylinder cooling and I already have a ton of control over timing events. For someone without access tuner, I'd say in the intercooler outlet pipe would be great. Me personally, that's a little hard to get to for jet/nozzle changes, so I'd goto where I could at least change the nozzles without removing the front bumper.

Seeing that with 11k miles, def got my attention.

Get a Dentist pick and pick that shit off with the valve close. Use Seafoam to soften it.

 

[Sourskittle]

I'm prob going to spend a day with some BG cleaner and do what I can with the intake off before I run any WI system. Really though, I have other fish fry's to fund first and someone else will prob be doing WI before me ( I would assume, but who knows ).

 

[MOFiST]

I haven't read or seen anything with dfi turbo cars having an issue with valve seals, but I think it could be a problem. That carbon/crude is building up on the valve's stem. That stem rides in and out of the valve seal. That seal is only going to scrap off the carbon for so long before the carbon starts to wear on the seal and cause it to leak. Once the valve stem leaks, it lets oil onto the valve and the problem will compound quickly IF THIS HAPPENS. From my friends 11k mile car, that valve seal looked to have been already been getting some contact with carbon.

WI nozzle placement leaves us with something to think about...

The closer to the combustion chamber, the better the cleaning and the better the cylinder cooling will be ( boost in octane sorta ). On the flip side. After the intercooler, but before the TIP sensor ( aka change air temp sensor ), will cool the charge temp more effectively. It also will let the pcm see the cooler charge temps and adjust timing automatically for better performance. The combustion chamber cooling will only tune its self in over time as the pcm continues to add timing in, pull after pull to until it sees knock and starts to back off. When you cool that charge temp sensor, the timing advance will be "real time live". Right then. I also like the idea of being able to SEE and LOG cooler charge temps vs just hoping and assuming everything is working since no other sensor besides the CAT sensor ( aka TIP ) can tell me its working. If I do 1,2,3,4th gear pull and my chage temp never went above 10 degrees of what it is outside ( or maybe BELOW outside temps ), then... The WI is working and doing its job. But if you put tue nozzle in the throttle body or right before the blade or tapped into the intake manifold or in a spaces between the intake/head, then the only way you'll see if the system is working, is to watch the knock corrections, lol.

Besides cleaning, I'd be in it for combustion cooling ( my pressure ratio is high, its just the nature of a turbo like this ). So I thought about duel injectors into the plenium bulge. I want max cylinder cooling and I already have a ton of control over timing events. For someone without access tuner, I'd say in the intercooler outlet pipe would be great. Me personally, that's a little hard to get to for jet/nozzle changes, so I'd goto where I could at least change the nozzles without removing the front bumper.

Seeing that with 11k miles, def got my attention.

Food for thought cheers.
With the valves I thought you were talking about the valve to head mating. I see your talking about the valve bore seals. Changing them I imagine would be a pita.