Fiesta ST Intake Thread

[KnockOff]

Really? Ford wouldn't design it that way? Google it. Nothing in the car industry gets a recall unless it could result in a lawsuit against them involving injuries or death. That's why the new design of direct injection also uses port injection.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I don’t think that’s how it works, but that oil will not hurt anything. It’ll eventually collect in the lower section of the intake tract where it can separate from the air stream at the air vortices. Maybe if someone was stock it’d eat through the rubber hoses and plastic of the intake tract but that’s doubtful or it’ll take a significant number of years most likely beyond the life expectancy of the car.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No no ....wait till you get up in miles....then check the hoses at the intercooler from the charge pipes...they become more pliable and soft due to the oil blow by.....what is an Engine? Its basically a giant vacuum....what happens with soft things under a vacuum? The suck inwards....think about it for a minute.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[deadlast]

Really? Ford wouldn't design it that way? Google it. Nothing in the car industry gets a recall unless it could result in a lawsuit against them involving injuries or death. That's why the new design of direct injection also uses port injection.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Yes really. There’s not a recall or TSB on cars for oil turning to sludge because you failed to keep up with the maintenance. It is necessary for the operation of the engine and emissions. Just like when the EGR was added. People complained about that too and still today, those get clogged up. If you don’t properly maintain your vehicle, you will have problems. I get it. Not everyone can. That’s why there are mechanic shops all around. Most of them don’t even do EGR cleanings either. Just like the intake valve cleaning. It doesn’t get done until it becomes a problem. Reactive vs proactive is how the industry is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[deadlast]

No no ....wait till you get up in miles....then check the hoses at the intercooler from the charge pipes...they become more pliable and soft due to the oil blow by.....what is an Engine? Its basically a giant vacuum....what happens with soft things under a vacuum? The suck inwards....think about it for a minute.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

Yes. I agree. Rubber breaks down due to the elements inside and out. Dry rot is real. Mine are all metal. Engines are giant vacuums and turbos are giant air pumps. Those rubber hoses are flexing real hard. That’s why they’re reinforced.


Edit: They’re not going to last forever, but they’ll last a while. And that’s the natural deterioration of cars.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Clint Beastwood]

Yes really. There’s not a recall or TSB on cars for oil turning to sludge because you failed to keep up with the maintenance. It is necessary for the operation of the engine and emissions. Just like when the EGR was added. People complained about that too and still today, those get clogged up. If you don’t properly maintain your vehicle, you will have problems. I get it. Not everyone can. That’s why there are mechanic shops all around. Most of them don’t even do EGR cleanings either. Just like the intake valve cleaning. It doesn’t get done until it becomes a problem. Reactive vs proactive is how the industry is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lol egr - man I remember on my v8 fiero swaps part of the routine maintenance was to undo the egr hose, slide a flat piece of soda can aluminum under it and screw it back on. the thin aluminum blocked the egr for roughly an oil change and everything ran so much better with it blocked

 

[deadlast]

lol egr - man I remember on my v8 fiero swaps part of the routine maintenance was to undo the egr hose, slide a flat piece of soda can aluminum under it and screw it back on. the thin aluminum blocked the egr for roughly an oil change and everything ran so much better with it blocked

Lol Yes, exactly! That is the point I’m trying to make. Whether it be a mandatory implementation or manufacturer design “flaw” we come up with ways to work around it until the manufacturer fixes it. In this case, port and direct injection. They’re just not going to give us all new motors to fix a small issue that takes a couple hundred * dollars every few years to clean up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KnockOff]

My point earlier was if it's an issue that that can causes a problem, they dont care. There are multiple videos about the valves getting nasty with oil residue. Especially EcoBoost engines. When oil residue builds up on engine parts you just wipe that sticky crap off. It's way more expensive to take the intake manifold off and wipe it down. The valves cant be just wiped off. There is more information now than before but even my old focus had sticky residue all down the intake pipe. Those cars aren't turbo charged witch can cause even more blow by. The only way to prove it is take 2 identical cars apart driven the same way, same oil, and same climate. It's all preference. I hear walnut blasting the valves is great but not cheap. Maybe with the occ installed I can avoid a decrease of airflow for a while longer. If not at least I tried. Btw I empty it every oil change.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[danbfree]

I would assume increased turbo pressure would also create higher crankcase pressures. Is the stock system designed for those increased pressures? I believe that is why there are VTA options for the OCC and the oil cap. In the end they both connect to the same area at the top of the engine. In the image below, the yellow tube allows the crankcase gases to vent to the top of engine, as I understand the blue line on the left vents under vacuum into the intake manifold and the one on the right vents under boost into the crossover pipe. I have a Damond VTA OCC that sits in the vacuum one, but I would assume that under boost I would still get crankcase gas/mist into the charge pipe through the right blue PCV hose (this is why there are two can options). I also have a CFM VTA oil cap, mainly because I got it for a good price. But...I do think under high boost conditions (i.e. e30 Stage 2 or 3 tune) it might be a good idea to have a VTA to allow excess pressure to escape just in case. This is just my current understanding and I am open to discussion, please let me know what considerations I may be missing. I can't remember which thread I found this image but it came from a [MENTION=9]rodmoe[/MENTION] post.

Great questions and the Stratified tech paper explains this better and they mention which one of the two sides is worth doing and which is not... our engines, with very tight tolerances don't make excess pressures to worry about venting at all anyway unless you have bad rings, etc. People choosing to do catch cans just feel they don't want that stuff in their intakes at all, and that's fine. I just choose look at it closer and not just stop at automatically assuming this is bad, I'd like to see the actual carbon buildup results at 100k between having catch cans and doing those other things that Stratified says has been proven to help like regular oil changes with full synthetic, driving hard in boost and vacuum, avoiding short trips, taking at least occasional long freeway trips, all helps to keep buildup to a minimum anyway... This has been a great discussion and we're all learning off each other!

 

[danbfree]

No no ....wait till you get up in miles....then check the hoses at the intercooler from the charge pipes...they become more pliable and soft due to the oil blow by.....what is an Engine? Its basically a giant vacuum....what happens with soft things under a vacuum? The suck inwards....think about it for a minute.

And that's why turbo cars inherently need more maintenance too. You can always get hard pipes and do intake cleanings as well, there are always alternatives to adding complexity to an already extremely engineered DI engine. Since they came out around 2005, the timing, PCV's with additional oil separation and other things have advanced too. Now, it's mostly the DI cars driven like grandma's that get the bad carbon buildup. But heck yeah, aux fuel of any kind that passes over the intake is the only 100% way to prevent carbon build up, there are just other ways to slow it significantly.

 

[deadlast]

My point earlier was if it's an issue that that can causes a problem, they dont care. There are multiple videos about the valves getting nasty with oil residue. Especially EcoBoost engines. When oil residue builds up on engine parts you just wipe that sticky crap off. It's way more expensive to take the intake manifold off and wipe it down. The valves cant be just wiped off. There is more information now than before but even my old focus had sticky residue all down the intake pipe. Those cars aren't turbo charged witch can cause even more blow by. The only way to prove it is take 2 identical cars apart driven the same way, same oil, and same climate. It's all preference. I hear walnut blasting the valves is great but not cheap. Maybe with the occ installed I can avoid a decrease of airflow for a while longer. If not at least I tried. Btw I empty it every oil change.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

They don’t care as in “it did not pose a problem in our testing of what we think how people will drive the car and for how long we see the industry average age/mileage of a car before it’s recycled based on our laboratory and dyno tests in a controlled environment. “

Blow by is there. Will an OCC get a lot of it? Maybe. Is it worth it? Not to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[danbfree]

The only place I can see where it would separate oil mist would be in the cover on the top of the engine shown in my post above. Otherwise the hoses seem to go straight to the intake manifold under vacuum or the crossover pipe under boost. Based on the image I don't seem much baffling in that cover, but maybe there is something not shown. Has anyone removed this cover to see if there is any baffling in there? I would assume the oil caught in that cover would either drain back through the oil check tube, or back through the tube to the crankcase.

Hey Steve, this is an awesome read HERE since it looks like you haven't seen it and explains where the oil separation occurs under both vacuum and boost... To me it made sense in how they explain that catch cans don't prevent carbon buildup any more than the factory system but like has been said already they do keep oil out of your charge pipes too so for some it's worth it to use them and for others it's worth just doing the other things instead like valve cleanings through the intake, driving hard, using fresh oil, etc... I know to expect to have to clean and/or replace my stock hoses in time. It may literally come down to what types of maintenance one is comfortable with or shelling out the expense for the catch cans up front and having to empty them or just upgrading your hoses later and doing some cleanings. Definitely would never claim that catch cans are a waste, it's just not like in the past where they very clearly made a big difference, it's just that gap has closed with better PCV systems in place now so that you can keep up in other ways too.

 

[danbfree]

My point earlier was if it's an issue that that can causes a problem, they dont care. There are multiple videos about the valves getting nasty with oil residue. Especially EcoBoost engines. When oil residue builds up on engine parts you just wipe that sticky crap off. It's way more expensive to take the intake manifold off and wipe it down. The valves cant be just wiped off. There is more information now than before but even my old focus had sticky residue all down the intake pipe. Those cars aren't turbo charged witch can cause even more blow by. The only way to prove it is take 2 identical cars apart driven the same way, same oil, and same climate. It's all preference. I hear walnut blasting the valves is great but not cheap. Maybe with the occ installed I can avoid a decrease of airflow for a while longer. If not at least I tried. Btw I empty it every oil change.

But, simply driving it hard in both boost and vacuum along with oil separation baffles that weren't designed in previously with PCV systems keeps the valves from seeing much actually stick and long trips along with the hard driving gets the valves nice and hot for any residue that does stick to help get burned off. I can't encourage you enough to actually check over this tech paper closely. you will see cleverly engineered dual OEM catch cans one for each the boost and vacuum side already and messing with the factory flow can have it's downsides too if it impedes the flow it's designed for as well.

I think the bottom line is that catch cans actually help the *most* for the type of driver who would never even think about using them: The non-enthusiast who drives like a grandma and takes mostly short trips, LOL... but like my last post said, I can totally see it both ways, there absolutely is an argument for both sides, I just choose to defer since the gap has closed on how poor PCV systems used to be compared to now and will I instead will actively watch to do other maintenance like replace hoses as needed, intake injected cleaning, etc... but great discussion from both sides, love the knowledge share!

 

[deadlast]

But, simply driving it hard in both boost and vacuum along with oil separation baffles that weren't designed in previously with PCV systems keeps the valves from seeing much actually stick and long trips along with the hard driving gets the valves nice and hot for any residue that does stick to help get burned off.

I think the bottom line is that catch cans actually help the *most* for the type of driver who would never even think about using them: The non-enthusiast who drives like a grandma and takes mostly short trips, LOL... but like my last post said, I can totally see it both ways, there absolutely is an argument for both sides, I just choose to defer since the gap has closed on how poor PCV systems used to be compared to now and will I instead will actively watch to do other maintenance like replace hoses as needed, intake injected cleaning, etc... but great discussion from both sides, love the knowledge share!

Agreed. I feel so bad for those engineers though. Thinking they have this robust engine that meets all the company goals; downsizing into smaller applications and keeping all attributes possible. Only for someone else to come along and say it’s a crap system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KnockOff]

It's nice to have a discussion about something without name calling and talking down to one another. No popcorn memes and gifs needed.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[anticon]

Great questions and the Stratified tech paper explains this better and they mention which one of the two sides is worth doing and which is not... our engines, with very tight tolerances don't make excess pressures to worry about venting at all anyway unless you have bad rings, etc. People choosing to do catch cans just feel they don't want that stuff in their intakes at all, and that's fine. I just choose look at it closer and not just stop at automatically assuming this is bad, I'd like to see the actual carbon buildup results at 100k between having catch cans and doing those other things that Stratified says has been proven to help like regular oil changes with full synthetic, driving hard in boost and vacuum, avoiding short trips, taking at least occasional long freeway trips, all helps to keep buildup to a minimum anyway... This has been a great discussion and we're all learning off each other!

Thanks I'll go read that paper again.

 

[danbfree]

Agreed. I feel so bad for those engineers though. Thinking they have this robust engine that meets all the company goals; downsizing into smaller applications and keeping all attributes possible. Only for someone else to come along and say it’s a crap system.

Hehe, well I STILL will always be suspicious when all they have to do is make it last 60k without injuring you, LOL!

 

[danbfree]

It's nice to have a discussion about something without name calling and talking down to one another. No popcorn memes and gifs needed.

Totally agreed! We all have the same fun little car we all love so never hurts to listen to both sides.... when frustrated, we should always refer back to that we are all equally Americans that just want to... wait, wrong conversation, LOL!!!

But hell yeah, the FiST is literally the best small "American" car ever. We are among fairly intelligent company that just wants to help each other by learning and sharing and keeping an open mind is all it takes!

So that said, this kind of scares me about catch cans too: "Also keep in mind that any obstruction you add to the PCV system (ie extra catch cans) can impede flow and therefore can cause issues such as higher oil consumption, leaking, and smoking turbos." So yeah, I've seen lots of very nice quality setups and I even garage my car at night where the water vapor inside these wouldn't freeze, it's just all information to take as a whole and decide for yourself and I went against after originally thinking I was for sure getting them.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

It's nice to have a discussion about something without name calling and talking down to one another. No popcorn memes and gifs needed.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

Hmmm...

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[Quisp]

All I know without a catch can I had oil in my hot side pipes, with none whatsoever.

 

[KnockOff]

Hmmm...

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

Hahaha

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk