Fiesta ST Intake Thread

[BlueBomber]

Wait. Other account? So two accounts, one vendor, one staff?

If that is true. Serious conflict of interest... most forums ban you if you have more than one account, but, again, not my forum. I just contribute here.

No, JURRIAN who is not me, my name is Nick, runs the ModBargains vendor account. Separate people, separate identities. I distance myself from it and have nothing to do with it. People do occasionally PM me sales inquiries and I always refer them to him. I answer tech questions, but do not sell parts. The company here is more than 25 people...

 

[dyn085]

Wait. Other account? So two accounts, one vendor, one staff?

If that is true. Serious conflict of interest... most forums ban you if you have more than one account, but, again, not my forum. I just contribute here.

Maybe not true, I'm not on the admin team. Some sites allow members that grow into vendors to have two accounts. In all fairness I can say that I've seen one time where BlueBomber directly advised someone against a ModBargains product.

Enough off-topic for me. Until proven otherwise I'm confident the the K&N will perform nearly exactly like the Injen. I won't personally run either one, but I had to choose I would pick the K&N. Apparently I'm one that 'doesn't know better'.

 

[MKVIIST]

No, JURRIAN who is not me, my name is Nick, runs the ModBargains vendor account. Separate people, separate identities. I distance myself from it and have nothing to do with it. People do occasionally PM me sales inquiries and I always refer them to him. I answer tech questions, but do not sell parts. The company here is more than 25 people...

I'll back up his statement as well. Jurrian runs the ModBargains account and Nick is Bluebomber. They are not the same person and operate the account independently and even I have been personally advised by Nick not to buy certain products even though its sold on ModBargains.

 

[BlueBomber]

Maybe not true, I'm not on the admin team. Some sites allow members that grow into vendors to have two accounts. In all fairness I can say that I've seen one time where BlueBomber directly advised someone against a ModBargains product.

Enough off-topic for me. Until proven otherwise I'm confident the the K&N will perform nearly exactly like the Injen. I won't personally run either one, but I had to choose I would pick the K&N. Apparently I'm one that 'doesn't know better'.

I never disagreed with that point, all of the open-airbox type intakes WILL perform about the same until we improve the heat shielding or seal the airbox, which was my point in the first place, and why I am disappointed K&N did not come up with a better design that WOULD perform better; I know K&N is capable of creating a sealed airbox or an effective heat shield and why I am bummed they did not incorporate those features.

 

[razorlab]

Anywho... back to talking about intakes and stuff.

Personally I see no reason at all to upgrade the intake with the stock toy turbo when running a competent tune, but I would love to be proven otherwise with actual data.

 

[FocusMike]

Anywho... back to talking about intakes and stuff.

Personally I see no reason at all to upgrade the intake with the stock toy turbo when running a competent tune, but I would love to be proven otherwise with actual data.

One of the reasons why I'm keeping my fingers for Greddy to come through with something.

 

[BlueBomber]

Anywho... back to talking about intakes and stuff.

Personally I see no reason at all to upgrade the intake with the stock toy turbo when running a competent tune, but I would love to be proven otherwise with actual data.

Having opened up the stock airbox with extra sealed ducts, the extra flow into the box definitely "uncorked" the car so there is some gain to be had for increasing flow, but it has to be done in a way that doesn't ingest a ton of hot air. We don't have figures but from the "Unlimited Plenum" intake thread a reasonable estimate is around 8hp+- (from documentation in thread on dynos before/after cutting off bottom of airbox) and improved throttle response. If you DO choose to go the modded airbox route, don't cut the whole bottom off the thing, cut round holes you can use with a coupler and duct it to keep the airbox sealed and hot air (and water ingestion) free. The +-8hp gain is often neutralized by hot air charge temps on open-element type intakes. It sounds plausible as it's not a night and day but definitely noticeable change. Without modifying the airbox, there is no gain for the drop in filter alone.

The problem with almost every heat shield design for the Fiesta ST is what I like to call stoplight heat creep. Heat soak is too generic to describe the problem. If the heat shield doesn't create a reasonably tight seal, You hit a stop light, hot air creeps around the shield and intake temp goes up, up, up...

As I said an FMIC will mitigate intake charge temp issues but a proper heat shield or sealed airbox intake vs an open element intake can be the difference between bogging and normal performance on a hot day on a car with a stock intercooler. This is why I keep making the case for a sealed airbox.

That said, for anyone seeking that "blow off valve" noise, I always recommend an open airbox class intake for these cars over an actual blow-off valve. If your goal is making noise, may as well do it with an intake and the one thing I will say the Injen does better than any other intake is make turbo noises. My GF says she misses all the happy "squee" sounds it made... lol. We can all agree it's good at making noise, right?

 

[dyn085]

Anywho... back to talking about intakes and stuff.

Personally I see no reason at all to upgrade the intake with the stock toy turbo when running a competent tune, but I would love to be proven otherwise with actual data.

I have seen decreases in filter pressure with the 'recommended' hole-in-the-box mod, but the heat ingestion really doesn't make it worth anything imho as the OEM IC struggles to shed the heat. I see it more as a prep for BT than anything else. I've also run back-to-back tests with the OEM filter vs a drop-in and seen absolutely no change.

I'll have everything replaced but the intake and turbo once Cobb releases theirs, so I should be able to see a definitive increase if there's going to be one.

Edit: BWAHAHAHA, 8 hp gain! What days do you have to support that guesstimation?

Lol@stoplight creep. You mean heatsoak?

Finally, if people want 'noise' them they should just get Boomba's bov adapter. There's literally no downside to it and you don't have to worry about the *heatsoak* of an open-element. I may have been called a ricer for supporting it, but at least it won't hurt performance like the Injen will.

 

[Sourskittle]

I'd still love to see a J-line intercooler with a filter bolted almost directly to the turbo. Sure its sucking hot air, but the turbo is spitting out 300+ degree temps, and the cooler is dropping it to like 5* over. What's another 10-20-30-40 degrees ( at a stand still ) vs losing all that restrictive plumbing ?

Just a theory I'd like to see tested. Not saying its right or wrong. Even a massive heat barrier with a turbo/maf adaptor bolted right to the turbo...

All that plumbing just really bothers me before the turbo.

 

[razorlab]

Having opened up the stock airbox with extra sealed ducts, the extra flow into the box definitely "uncorked" the car so there is some gain to be had for increasing flow, but it has to be done in a way that doesn't ingest a ton of hot air. We don't have figures but from the "Unlimited Plenum" intake thread a reasonable estimate is around 8hp+- and improved throttle response.

My point was less of the bold stuff, more data. Talk is cheap. Doesn't help anybody.

The problem with almost every heat shield design for the Fiesta ST is what I like to call stoplight heat creep. If the heat shield doesn't create a reasonably tight seal, You hit a stop light, hot air creeps around the shield and intake temp goes up, up, up...

The OEM box and intake does that too but quickly drops once moving. Look, data to prove my statement!

 

[dyn085]

My point was less of the bold stuff, more data. Talk is cheap. Doesn't help anybody.



The OEM box and intake does that too but quickly drops once moving. Look, data to prove my statement!

I also have data, and a direct comparison between the hole-in-box vs sealed. How are you capturing images like that with datazap? All I can ever manage is to link the logs.

 

[razorlab]

I also have data, and a direct comparison between the hole-in-box vs sealed. How are you capturing images like that with datazap? All I can ever manage is to link the logs.

Either take a screenshot or there is a little button in the upper right on the datazap datalog graph that is "save PNG"

 

[BlueBomber]

I have seen decreases in filter pressure with the 'recommended' hole-in-the-box mod, but the heat ingestion really doesn't make it worth anything imho as the OEM IC struggles to shed the heat. I see it more as a prep for BT than anything else. I've also run back-to-back tests with the OEM filter vs a drop-in and seen absolutely no change.

I'll have everything replaced but the intake and turbo once Cobb releases theirs, so I should be able to see a definitive increase if there's going to be one.

Edit: BWAHAHAHA, 8 hp gain! What days do you have to support that guesstimation?

Lol@stoplight creep. You mean heatsoak?

Finally, if people want 'noise' them they should just get Boomba's bov adapter. There's literally no downside to it and you don't have to worry about the *heatsoak* of an open-element. I may have been called a ricer for supporting it, but at least it won't hurt performance like the Injen will.

it was in that big messy "Unlimited Plenum Intake" thread, dyno before and after cutting of the airbox was +8hp+- IIRC, which seems reasonable and about right. Opening up the lower airbox definitely does something, but as you said, filter alone does nothing. I have a duct in the bottom and side of my airbox - I used a holesaw to make a neat hole, then used 2" flexhose with a coupler to plumb that into an area of the inside of the bumper that gets cool air flow but will be safe from water ingestion, sort of like an alternate version of the Mountune lower box with a longer duct. I was very careful to keep the box SEALED as much as possible. Once the dyno's installed here I can do some baseline runs and provide some hard data but it's just logs and the seat of my pants for now, but I think ducting it is the best way to do the lower airbox mod- it's not the same as a full intake but does yield some improvement over stock.

The stock airbox does suffer from heatsoak to a degree as you said, but it suffers less than an open setup and the rate of heat soak is slower.

I'm on the other side of the BOV issue, I'm of the opposite opinion (the BOV being the detriment to performance) but we'll leave that for the blow off valve thread.
[MENTION=688]Sourskittle[/MENTION]: man, you crazy.

 

[dyn085]

I did a search for the 'unlimited plenum' thread and found nothing.

I haven't downloaded my logs from today yet, but I will say that the closed box seems to be showing *much* better in terms of temperatures. I can say that filter pressure was reduced when I cut the hole, but mass air still measured to be the same. This tells me that it's breathing easier, but not sucking in additional air. It's not anything different than I was expecting because, generally speaking, a turbocharged motor doesn't usually see the benefits with simply an intake change.

Also, someone here posted logs somewhere showing that there were no detrimental side-effects from the use of the BOV adapter. The OEM diverter blows the air back into the intake tract, which isn't a sealed unit, so the additional air just blows back out the filter. The BOV adapter does basically the same thing but shortcuts the path of going back into the tract and then out the filter.

 

[BlueBomber]

I did a search for the 'unlimited plenum' thread and found nothing.

I haven't downloaded my logs from today yet, but I will say that the closed box seems to be showing *much* better in terms of temperatures. I can say that filter pressure was reduced when I cut the hole, but mass air still measured to be the same. This tells me that it's breathing easier, but not sucking in additional air. It's not anything different than I was expecting because, generally speaking, a turbocharged motor doesn't usually see the benefits with simply an intake change.

Also, someone here posted logs somewhere showing that there were no detrimental side-effects from the use of the BOV adapter. The OEM diverter blows the air back into the intake tract, which isn't a sealed unit, so the additional air just blows back out the filter. The BOV adapter does basically the same thing but shortcuts the path of going back into the tract and then out the filter.

http://www.fiestast.org/forum/fiesta-st-discussions/888-unlimited-plenum-intake.html

I thought it was on here, but it was on .org... Long thread, have fun!

And yes, that's more or less what I was getting at with "uncorked". It doesn't feel more powerful per se, it got rid of the "plugged up" feel of the OEM airbox after reverting to stock from the Injen unit (I gave my Injen to a buddy who loves the thing... hey, he's happy)

Some things are not for everyone.

Like Doritos Loaded. Personally I get a little queasy just seeing a photo of them, but clearly this must appeal to someone.

 

[razorlab]

http://www.fiestast.org/forum/fiesta-st-discussions/888-unlimited-plenum-intake.html

What a useless thread. 143 Posts and not ONE SINGLE post has any data or dyno sheets in there to back up any of the claims.

My car gained 10whp after I washed it yesterday because it was happier. I'll post dyno sheets....never.

btw. I didn't really wash my car yesterday.

More threads like this:

http://www.fiestastforum.com/forum/threads/1076-Fiesta-ST-Intake-Dyno-Tested

Less of that rubbish above.

 

[dyn085]

What a useless thread. 143 Posts and not ONE SINGLE post has any data or dyno sheets in there to back up any of the claims.

My car gained 10whp after I washed it yesterday because it was happier. I'll post dyno sheets....never.

btw. I didn't really wash my car yesterday.

There is a link in there to a thread done by 2J that shows on a dyno exactly what I've been saying-a panel filter does nothing over OEM and an open intake actually makes it worse.

I have logs between the hole-cut vs OEM, I just haven't fully fine through them yet. To put it bluntly-don't do it without (at the very least) ducting it straight out to ambient air like Sekred. I literally have cooler intake temps (on average) than charge temps with it blocked off. I'll post some logs after dinner and figuring out how to save things. Once Cobb ships me my intake I'll log that as well.

This OEM IC is junk if you're anything over OEM-even just tuned. Stage 1=tune+intercooler.

 

[razorlab]

I edited my post it looks before I saw your post. I added the 2JR thread.

But yes, I still think the stock intake is just fine while still using the stock toy turbo. Save your money, put it towards a FMIC.

 

[dyn085]

Well if we're suddenly on the subject of 'off-topic', I notice a bunch of posts are suddenly gone now. I've noticed this happens quite often within the FiST community.

 

[dyn085]

I edited my post it looks before I saw your post. I added the 2JR thread.

But yes, I still think the stock intake is just fine while still using the stock toy turbo. Save your money, put it towards a FMIC.

Has anyone done the math to figure out if the intake is a limit at all on the baby-turbo? I know that it won't put down huge numbers, but I wonder if the rest of the system is enough of a bottle-neck to make the intake the final (pre-BT) upgrade and show gains or not. I'll find out soon enough in either direction, just curious if anyone has already math'ed it.

Edit: Here are two graphs of my drive to lunch for the last two days. One is with the modded-box, one is with the hole taped shut. Both of these are a trip to the drive-thru (BK, btw) and back, and you can see the drastic difference in temps between the intake and charge. I tried posting pics and failed, so you have to click the links. The conditions are relatively similar, as much as can be hoped for from logging one day and then the next. The links are also zoomed-in, so you can zoom-out and get a better view of how the whole drive compares on average.
http://www.datazap.me/u/dyn085/lunch-drive-oem-box?log=0&data=6-11-13&solo=13&zoom=6170-10266

http://www.datazap.me/u/dyn085/lunch-drive?log=0&data=6-11-13&zoom=6170-10266

Edit to the edit: The pictures are to show ambient temp via the instrument panel. The pics are eerily similar, but note the difference in the fuel gauge. I promise that each shot was taken the day the log was taken.