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Upgraded turbo just arrived!

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Blackvette101, this wheel flows as much at 12psi as the old one did at 20psi.
Thats nuts! Will see when the numbers come in but it looks to me like this should be a first mod for everybody not last. it will probably make more power then stage 3 with a better powerband at less then half the price.

Hijinx, that's just it... The turbo swap on this car is just not that hard... I promise. Once you get the cowl off and know what tools to drag under the car ( so your not climbing up and down over and over ), its not that bad AT ALL. Even the manifold comes out nice.

Its easier than my srt4 was...
+1 you can do the job in the morning and have it out by lunchtime without rushing. It's only slightly more time then a downpipe swap.
 


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RAAMaudio

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Thread Starter #142
I built a FWD rear mount turbo system once with 1/3 the space or less to work with, I was a huge pain in the arse and left me stiff and sore for a few days after hours of effort to take it off for more tweaks.

The last time I took the ST turbo off took less than an hour, in fact I am waiting for a part so I cannot drive the car so I might just pull it one more time and do more porting while waiting, the porting takes far more time and effort that removing and installing the turbo.

I leave it on the manifold, I can drop it out from the bottom or take it out from the top as the cowl is the only big thing in the way and easy to swap out as well and mine has not been on the car for a few months now during the build.
 


Sourskittle

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Hijinx i didn't mean you specifically. I meant for the average Joe. If average joe took his time, he could start in the morning and be done by 7pm without issue.

I'm going to do a "how-to" that will lay out the tools needed and ways to get to think. With help from rodmoe and his diagrams, physically doing the swap will be no excuse for not doing it really :)

Wonder what a shop would charge in labor... Hummmm....
 


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To start, The Smoking Tire is using OTS tunes. I'm pretty sure that pro-tuners will be expanding on those numbers quite a bit once more people start using them and posting results. Secondly, the IC is probably the weakest link out of the entire system. I regularly see 30?+ temp increases on a single fourth gear pull, and forcing more hot air through it from a modified turbo is not going to make that situation better. Third, if an exhaust wasn't freeing up backpressure then people wouldn't be seeing any gains at all by installing them.

There's a reason that 'stage 1' (lol) isn't a bigger turbo. The second you put one on you're strangling it with the OEM parts.

In no way am I saying this is a bad modification direction, I just don't see it being optimal. When I go BT I want the rest of my system to already be ready for it.
OTS tune or not the hardware isn't doing much of anything power wise. Will it change with custom tuning is speculation. I'm not saying the exhaust isn't freeing up backpressure I'm saying its freeing up very little backpressure and what gains are there are not impressive because the restriction is the turbine for the money people are spending on it. The intercooler is a restriction but i don't think its more restrictive then the turbo. Will this turbo or any big turbo perform better with stage 3 parts? yes! The question is will this turbo give stage 3 or more performance at fraction of the price using factory components. After seeing the powerband both stock and stage 3 i believe it will. But we will find out the definite answer shortly.

I'll tell you one thing though increasing airflow pre and post turbo is not optimal when the turbo is a major restriction and can't even support airflow in the rpm range people are using to race.

If it turns out that way it might make a lot more sense financially for modded stock turbo to be stage 1.
 


Sourskittle

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Well will also be testing an "extreme clip" version of this turbo very soon. It will not be my car, but I think its going to impress as well. Built for mid-range/high end power. About as much as its gonna make. This will un-doubtably have more lag, but it should pay off on the top end. This will not be a "tester car". This person paid full price and is semi-local to me. Hopefully, he likes it and gives me/us some spool time datalogs and dyno's but frankly, he doesn't owe me anything, lol.
 


razorlab

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When is this thing going on the dyno? Less talking, more doing and posting actual data. ;)
 


Sourskittle

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I promise Razor, I'm doing the best I can :)
Labor day kind of backed the shop up a bit....
And the "how-to" is gonna slow me down when I get to the install. The extreme clipped one I hope to have all buttoned up Friday.

I have low expectations for mine, but Rick's and the extreme clipped one should be rock and roll.

Mine will make good power after, but due to nature of what I'm trying to show, I can't go too hard too fast.
 


iso100

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From the exhaust ports to the downpipe, there is a lot to be gained. Ford did a good job of leaving a lot of power on that table, even with the stock turbo housings.
Isn't the small diameter of the exhaust ports intentional to get velocities up and to spool the turbo earlier?
 


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RAAMaudio

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Thread Starter #149
I am part of the hold up, I should of kept my stock brake calipers a bit longer as waiting on the front custom mounts and building my own rear mounts, which has taken far longer than expected. I was going to build temp front mounts over the weekend but the rears took so long I did not get to it and now the fronts are due in a few days so going to wait on them and get other work done.

As soon as I can I will put a few hundred miles on the car per day to break it in then start on the Etune and then when dialed in get it on a local dyno.

I had hoped to be at this stage early last week, just takes time, local machine shop could not fit me in, making a BBK with 4 piston calipers with integrated parking brake, 11" GT rotors, fit inside 15" wheels has been considerably more involved than I imagined, many times more but in the end, will be worth it!
 


Sourskittle

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Rick, your project is so "multifaceted", I don't think anyone blames you, lol. Your one man, not a formula 1 team.
 


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RAAMaudio

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Thread Starter #151
I think the factory design and tune was intentionally done to give that big torque jump down low to enhance daily driver fun and as a sales tool and it has more than it needs.

Porting things out modding the turbo can be a good thing if done right to build a broader power band and if carefully done still plenty down low.
 


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How much porting is there to do on the stock manifold? Thought I saw something posted before but can't seem to find it..
 


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RAAMaudio

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The first page on this thread shows the end results of my porting. I will dig up the thread where I have some stock picks as well.

It was not all about just opening it up, the stock ports actually overlapped the head ports which is really a bad thing.

SS had posted some also.
 


Sekred

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"Even pumaspeed leaves some to be desired when disclosing what is done to a car, and its not really there fault, but... BHP, HP (crank horse power ), whp ( with what ever Din is )".

Din, not short for dinner.

"DIN is short for Deutsche Industrienorm (German industry standard), a standard issued by the German national institute for standardization, now called Deutsches Institut f?r Normung and abbreviated DIN. Among other things, the agency sets standards for how the horsepower and torque of automobile engines should be measured: Deutsche Industrienorm 70020.

As you might imagine, the standards of DIN 70020 are specific and very strict. Unlike the SAE gross standards used in the U.S. and Great Britain for many years, it requires power to be measured with standard intake, exhaust, and accessory systems in place. DIN horsepower ratings, therefore, are comparable to the modern SAE net rating system, although they are usually reported in metric horsepower (sometimes referred to as Pferdest?rke, the German word for horsepower, and abbreviated PS), rather than mechanical horsepower. One mechanical horsepower is about 745.7 watts, whereas one metric horsepower is about 735.5 watts; therefore, 1 PS equals 0.986 horsepower. Because of that and because DIN horsepower ratings are calculated with the engine in ?as-installed? condition, they are always lower than gross ratings. (The peak engine speeds for DIN power and torque ratings are often lower, as well, reflecting the effects that mufflers, air cleaners, and accessories have on the engine?s power curve.)

Until the early 1970s, it was not uncommon for cars sold worldwide to have two power ratings, one DIN, one gross, largely as a concession to the salespeople. A Porsche 356 Super 90 engine, for example, was rated 90 hp DIN, but 102 hp SAE gross. Adding to the fun was the fact that, as we?ve previously discussed, SAE gross numbers sometimes bore very little relationship to actual output. This did NOT necessarily mean that the U.S. or British engines were more powerful than their European counterparts, simply that their ratings were figured differently.

So, before you write us to complain that we have maligned your favorite car by saying it had less power than advertised, please consider the source, and whether that source was quoting SAE gross, SAE net, or DIN figures".
 


D1JL

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I am still waiting to pick up a core so I can start this project.
However it looks like the "plug-n-play" version might be a little more pricy than expected.


Dave
 


Sourskittle

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One of our more thoughtful members brought up a really good point about the upgraded turbo...

Any of you guys ever see how the turbo actually can run boost on cruise control doing 70+mph? Its almost making boost to maintain speed (sometimes it is...).

Clipping the turbine should help with this. So funny as it sounds, I think it could actually help gas mileage and wear on the motor if you drive at 70-80mph on the interstate like I do. I actually get less mpg on the highway, than in the city ( true story ).
 


Sourskittle

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Sekred thanx for posting that :)
I was not talking down on "din". Simply saying that there are like 15 forms of expressing power output. Pumaspeed trying to please everyone ( god, don't I understand, lol ), has converted and measured and quantified power numbers and its a bit confusing. I not saying "whp" or what ever it is in the US is the correct way, simply saying that so many different ways to measure the same thing is a bit confusing. I'm no dyno operator, nor do I want to be one :)
 


Sekred

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Sekred thanx for posting that :)
I was not talking down on "din". Simply saying that there are like 15 forms of expressing power output. Pumaspeed trying to please everyone ( god, don't I understand, lol ), has converted and measured and quantified power numbers and its a bit confusing. I not saying "whp" or what ever it is in the US is the correct way, simply saying that so many different ways to measure the same thing is a bit confusing. I'm no dyno operator, nor do I want to be one :)
I had forgotten what DIN meant so I just thought I would google it and share. I am the copy and paste king too.
 


Sourskittle

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I am still waiting to pick up a core so I can start this project.
However it looks like the "plug-n-play" version might be a little more pricy than expected.


Dave
Its still going to be $750. But yea, porting the manifold is going to cost more and due to the hours and hours it requires, its not cheap ( $350 plus shipping is what I'll likely charge as the last one I did has 12 hours in it already ).

The good news about the manifold is... I'd say you could get a rough cut version of what needs to be done with about 3-4 hours work with a $30 harbor freight electric die grinder and a $18 ebay bit. And its not rocket science, its just time and a little effort. For right now at least, since the turbo has to be sent in, you'll have at least 4 days minimum to put time in the manifold yourself.

I'm not going to lie. Its not a fun job. Its also not REQUIRED. I just can't imagine why someone would be spending the money on an upgraded turbo, but at the sametime wouldn't put 2-4 hours into the manifold.

But its not REQUIRED, just highly suggested. :)
 


lessard.dcj

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what bits do you use for porting ? and would a dremel work?

i hate that my fist is my DD and Play car.
 


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