Upgraded turbo just arrived!

[SecretSquirlTuned]

Well before the catless DP and stage 3 tune I went 14.1@99.XX, I'd imagine as it sits it has a 13.9in it with a flat 100 trap. Once my tuner frees up a bit were going to play with an e85 tune as well.

You should easily run a 13.9@100 but another 5 mph out of our Tiny asthmatic snail will probably be hard to do....but you do have some of the best tracks/weather up there in NY as well as stupid good DA's. So if its possible you will have the best chance of it there.

 

[Sourskittle]

From the exhaust ports to the downpipe, there is a lot to be gained. Ford did a good job of leaving a lot of power on that table, even with the stock turbo housings.

 

[razorlab]

You would have to make around 40-50whp more with the same weight to gain 5mph

 

[94Gt5.0]

You would have to make around 40-50whp more with the same weight to gain 5mph

Eh maybe, stock these trap around 94ish, and I definitely haven't added 50whp over stock to get it where it's at now (trapping almost 100). Like squirrel said, maybe come fall with some retarded good DA I'll get a few heroes runs in, we'll see!

 

[RAAMaudio]

Of course much of what is being said is speculation, backed up by experience, generally accepted values, etc....but the real proof is only in the outcome and I just hope we can get something great out of this for us all. Even if I end up going to the EFR this is a greatly fun experience to share with everyone here

-----

I will take a look at the oil cooler a gain to see if I can get it off, a bit of work to that, I did not see a way to unscrew it and did look in and probe the middle of it, it seemed to be some sort of qtr turn fastener but perhaps I was mistaken.

If it comes off and I can put the Mocal plate in its place I will then find the biggest oil cooler that fits.

Thanks for the link!

 

[Sourskittle]

Just for the record...

Does anyone know the too 3 stock turbo powered cars
Hp@xxxxrpms
Torque @xxxxrpms

If you were given the choice.. Buy an air intake $200.
Intercooler $600
Custom tune $150-$200.

Or... Bolt on a $750 and make more power...

I'm not sure I'm going to do well on the dyno at all. But... "What if"...

Say I make 215whp and 280wtq... Would that be give/take what people are making fully tuned with all the bolt-on ? Would that be fair yo say? (And I mean real dyno's, not "guestimation virtual dynos" ).

 

[Hijinx]

Just for the record...

Does anyone know the too 3 stock turbo powered cars
Hp@xxxxrpms
Torque @xxxxrpms

If you were given the choice.. Buy an air intake $200.
Intercooler $600
Custom tune $150-$200.

Or... Bolt on a $750 and make more power...

I'm not sure I'm going to do well on the dyno at all. But... "What if"...

Say I make 215whp and 280wtq... Would that be give/take what people are making fully tuned with all the bolt-on ? Would that be fair yo say? (And I mean real dyno's, not "guestimation virtual dynos" ).

For ease of install and the mod list most people would rather go with bolt-ons than an upgraded OEM turbo. For bragging and because racecar.

 

[dyn085]

For ease of install and the mod list most people would rather go with bolt-ons than an upgraded OEM turbo. For bragging and because racecar.

^ This, imho. Not that an upgraded OEM turbo is bad per se, but I wouldn't want to throw one on the OEM system considering how many weak points and bottlenecks there are that are already documented. This should be after having already upgraded to and installing the 'stage 3' (lol) parts and making the turbo the weakest link.

Still curious.

 

[SecretSquirlTuned]

Just for the record...

Does anyone know the too 3 stock turbo powered cars
Hp@xxxxrpms
Torque @xxxxrpms

If you were given the choice.. Buy an air intake $200.
Intercooler $600
Custom tune $150-$200.

Or... Bolt on a $750 and make more power...

I'm not sure I'm going to do well on the dyno at all. But... "What if"...

Say I make 215whp and 280wtq... Would that be give/take what people are making fully tuned with all the bolt-on ? Would that be fair yo say? (And I mean real dyno's, not "guestimation virtual dynos" ).

Don't use a Mustang MD dyno or else you will see more realistic #s which will be lower, test it on a dynojet so you can get unrealistic high #s that wont hold up at the track. lol sorry had too.

 

[blackvette101]

You would have to make around 40-50whp more with the same weight to gain 5mph

Well it depends. These cars are not heavy its probably more like 30-35 whp for 5 mph. ATP gained 11 mph with 70 whp. I don't know if the upgraded stock turbo will gain that much power at peak. But I could definitely see it making 20-25 more torque from 5-7k rpm which is where it matters for a high trap speed. That could possibly translate to an extra 30-40 whp up top. I mean stock turbo is down 7-8 psi up top. If it could reclaim some of that it may get there.

^ This, imho. Not that an upgraded OEM turbo is bad per se, but I wouldn't want to throw one on the OEM system considering how many weak points and bottlenecks there are that are already documented. This should be after having already upgraded to and installing the 'stage 3' (lol) parts and making the turbo the weakest link.

Still curious.

the turbo is the weakest link from the factory. You have people spending a grand to put on a 3'' exhaust post turbo with an exhaust inducer the size of a quarter. How much backpressure you think your freeing up when its stacking up preturbine because the turbine wheel can't move any air? It's probably going from a 4 to 1 ratio to a 3.5 to 1.

Cobb gained 26 whp from a full stage 3 with tuning according to smokingtire on youtube. At least 10 of that is from tuning possibly more. So roughly 16 hp from a full hardware change including intake, cold side pipes, intercooler and turboback exhaust that tells me the weak link is the turbo and all those hardware upgrades are doing close to nil. Even if it got the full 26 hp from hardware changes and the tuning add 0 power that still is horrible gains for bolt ons on a FI engine.

the turbo simply does not flow enough air after 4500 rpm to support the manifold pressure asked of it. The bolt ons are like putting bandaids over a knife wound. The only way to address the problem is more turbo.

 

[Hijinx]

Don't use a Mustang MD dyno or else you will see more realistic #s which will be lower, test it on a dynojet so you can get unrealistic high #s that wont hold up at the track. lol sorry had too.

And use "DIN" corrections.

If I'm not wrong, an upgraded OEM turbo is the true (read, generally accepted idea of) Stage 3, right?

 

[Sourskittle]

I will be on a dyno-jet at a place called "proven performance" if I can help it.

I used a super-flow dyno many years ago on a project like this, and when I bet projected numbers by 50whp, everyone said it was because I used a super-flow dyno. Truth be told,
The super-flow reads more like a mustang dyno than a dyno jet.

I'm making sure it goes on a dyno jet.

 

[Sourskittle]

Blackvette101, this wheel flows as much at 12psi as the old one did at 20psi.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I started a new thread for those that really have to stay stealthy as much as they can, if not done so far check it out

As for this thread:

Many cannot or will not do a full turbo upgrade so exploring what we can get out of a stock turbo is a great way to see what can be done for them.

Those that are going to swap turbos are not what this thread it about so please keep the comments to the subject at hand in that regard

I can go anyway I wish but decided to be a part of the testing the limits of the stock turbo. Mine is not as modded as it can be which might be the next phase, more porting, billet inlet tapered from 3" right to the face of the compressor wheel, more clip on the turbine, ported WG, ported turbine outlet.....lots more can be gone but the price would go up obviously, what has been done to mine so far is the most cost effective route.

Thanks!
Rick

 

[TheStig]

Blackvette101, this wheel flows as much at 12psi as the old one did at 20psi.

My lord... This upgrade with full bolt ons may just be the knees of the bees.

 

[Sourskittle]

Hijinx, that's just it... The turbo swap on this car is just not that hard... I promise. Once you get the cowl off and know what tools to drag under the car ( so your not climbing up and down over and over ), its not that bad AT ALL. Even the manifold comes out nice.

Its easier than my srt4 was...

 

[razorlab]

I was being conservative so nobody would get a broken heart.

 

[dyn085]

the turbo is the weakest link from the factory. You have people spending a grand to put on a 3'' exhaust post turbo with an exhaust inducer the size of a quarter. How much backpressure you think your freeing up when its stacking up preturbine because the turbine can't move any air? It's probably going from a 4 to 1 ratio to a 3.5 to 1.

Cobb gained 26 whp from a full stage 3 with tuning according to smokingtire on youtube. At least 10 of that is from tuning possibly more. So roughly 16 hp from a full hardware change including intake, cold side pipes, intercooler and turboback exhaust tell me the weak link is the turbo and all those hardware upgrades are doing close to nil. Even if it got the full 26 hp from hardware changes and the tuning add 0 power that still is horrible gains for bolt ons on a FI engine.

To start, The Smoking Tire is using OTS tunes. I'm pretty sure that pro-tuners will be expanding on those numbers quite a bit once more people start using them and posting results. Secondly, the IC is probably the weakest link out of the entire system. I regularly see 30?+ temp increases on a single fourth gear pull, and forcing more hot air through it from a modified turbo is not going to make that situation better. Third, if an exhaust wasn't freeing up backpressure then people wouldn't be seeing any gains at all by installing them.

There's a reason that 'stage 1' (lol) isn't a bigger turbo. The second you put one on you're strangling it with the OEM parts.

In no way am I saying this is a bad modification direction, I just don't see it being optimal. When I go BT I want the rest of my system to already be ready for it.

 

[Hijinx]

Hijinx, that's just it... The turbo swap on this car is just not that hard... I promise. Once you get the cowl off and know what tools to drag under the car ( so your not climbing up and down over and over ), its not that bad AT ALL. Even the manifold comes out nice.

Its easier than my srt4 was...

I've spent some time under the car; working, staring, scratching my head. I'm not scared to do a swap by any means. I was referring to the Average Joe with little mechanical inclination. The quote at the local shop will be staggering to them and the task is probably equally a staggering thought. Personally, I'm aching to rip it out for the swap.

 

[RAAMaudio]

Absolutely need a bigger IC and there are low cost alternatives that do the job just fine if not superbly so.

But, it can be done a step before or after, just realizing before you will be needing to do it, finding one of the worst case scenarios is what SS is working on which is a great way to go for a good baseline, it can only get better from there