2JR Full Race Front Mount Intercooler

[Hijinx]

This!

Damn, I didn't even give it a thought, bought it solely based on price.

Sorry, I'm late. It literally just dawned on me.

 

[WeTheNorth]

Sorry, I'm late. It literally just dawned on me.

No worries, some good pointers here. Would love for 2J to chime in

 

[joe@2j-racing]

Very simple - we measured effectiveness on both the street and at the track. Effectiveness is defined as the ratio of how many degrees of temperature that were removed from the charge air by the intercooler to the original temperature that is put into the charge air by the turbo. If the FiST turbo compresses the charge air to a temperature of 192° F then after passing through the 2JR intercooler the air is dropped 121° at the cold side (resulting in a 71° F charge air temperature), the efficiency would be: Effectiveness: 121/192 = 62% efficiency. We also measured heat soak - how well the intercooler can handle higher temps for longer periods. Because the 2JR intercooler is larger than any FMIC that fits under the crash bar - it is more effective at releasing the heat over a greater area, causing less heat soak at the track - which maintains its effectiveness.

Think of the EVO8 OEM FMIC - a higher % of that FMIC was hidden behind the bumper than ours. And also, our FMIC is all aluminum which transfers heat better than the plastic end tank OEM FiST intercooler

Hope that makes sense!

 

[AzNightmare]

I have a few questions:
-Do you have any pictures of the IC mounted with the front bumper on? The pictures posted on the site and in this thread have been just the IC without the bumper on.

-How much more does this IC weigh compared to the OEM? Because this is the biggest IC in the market, I would think it most likely also weighs the most?

Think of the EVO8 OEM FMIC - a higher % of that FMIC was hidden behind the bumper than ours. And also, our FMIC is all aluminum which transfers heat better than the plastic end tank OEM FiST intercooler

Hope that makes sense!

But... the Evo 8 (9, and 10 as well) have 2 vents on their crash beam.

 

[Hijinx]

Very simple - we measured effectiveness on both the street and at the track. Effectiveness is defined as the ratio of how many degrees of temperature that were removed from the charge air by the intercooler to the original temperature that is put into the charge air by the turbo. If the FiST turbo compresses the charge air to a temperature of 192° F then after passing through the 2JR intercooler the air is dropped 121° at the cold side (resulting in a 71° F charge air temperature), the efficiency would be: Effectiveness: 121/192 = 62% efficiency. We also measured heat soak - how well the intercooler can handle higher temps for longer periods. Because the 2JR intercooler is larger than any FMIC that fits under the crash bar - it is more effective at releasing the heat over a greater area, causing less heat soak at the track - which maintains its effectiveness.

Think of the EVO8 OEM FMIC - a higher % of that FMIC was hidden behind the bumper than ours. And also, our FMIC is all aluminum which transfers heat better than the plastic end tank OEM FiST intercooler

Hope that makes sense!

I'm sorry, but this feels like a non-answer. I understand that the materials and size make it better at dissipating heat. But I also understand that air needs to flow over an air to air intercooler for that heat to be dissipated. What I don't understand how that airflow is expected behind our large, blocked off crash beam...blocking more of our radiator, in addition (less of an issue with tube and fin). Without airflow (aka holes in the crash beam) it seems a bit gimmicky.

Also, is air directed to the top rows with some device in the end tanks?

 

[joe@2j-racing]

I dont think you understand what I was trying to convey. Like our 2JR custom radiator, 2JR Cowl Induction Intake we tested the FMIC and changed the design based on efficiency and gaining the highest number we could using the stock bumper. And thats what we achieved. We dont build "gimmicky" parts - and invite you to our shop.

 

[WeTheNorth]

I have a few questions:
-Do you have any pictures of the IC mounted with the front bumper on? The pictures posted on the site and in this thread have been just the IC without the bumper on.

-How much more does this IC weigh compared to the OEM? Because this is the biggest IC in the market, I would think it most likely also weighs the most?





But... the Evo 8 (9, and 10 as well) have 2 vents on their crash beam.

I'm sorry, but this feels like a non-answer. I understand that the materials and size make it better at dissipating heat. But I also understand that air needs to flow over an air to air intercooler for that heat to be dissipated. What I don't understand how that airflow is expected behind our large, blocked off crash beam...blocking more of our radiator, in addition (less of an issue with tube and fin). Without airflow (aka holes in the crash beam) it seems a bit gimmicky.

Also, is air directed to the top rows with some device in the end tanks?

Feel like the OP is ignoring the questions, can't just say I invite you to our shop. Thought this was a thread for your product and how it works/ it's efficeniecy?

 

[Hijinx]

I dont think you understand what I was trying to convey. Like our 2JR custom radiator, 2JR Cowl Induction Intake we tested the FMIC and changed the design based on efficiency and gaining the highest number we could using the stock bumper. And thats what we achieved. We dont build "gimmicky" parts - and invite you to our shop.

What I'm getting from you is that your intercooler is more effective at cooling the charge temp than stock. I feel like a straight pipe sprayed with alcohol would be more effective than the stock intercooler. So, I expect any aftermarket to be much better at its job.

Moving on, what's the volume of the core? Is it tube and fin or bar and plate?

 

[AzNightmare]

I dont think you understand what I was trying to convey. Like our 2JR custom radiator, 2JR Cowl Induction Intake we tested the FMIC and changed the design based on efficiency and gaining the highest number we could using the stock bumper. And thats what we achieved. We dont build "gimmicky" parts - and invite you to our shop.

Joe, I know you're a busy guy, but please take care in addressing the questions in this thread.
I'm not trying to be offensive, but while you put in all the effort in the quality workmanship on the product, the customer relationship is also just as important. It'll only help your business in the long run...

Your previous answer kind of just says: "The Intercooler has been researched and developed well, it works better than OEM, so don't worry about the specifics".

There are a lot of other aftermarket intercoolers in the market, and they all work a lot better than OEM. We simply just want a bit of your time to answer some of our questions so we can understand why this IC is better than the rest.

 

[joe@2j-racing]

What we are saying is - like our other products - we based our design off two factors - dyno results (we have a dynojet in house) and results on the track. We gave the specifics regarding efficiency on the FMIC and we posted dynos. A lot of local ST owners see us at the track and at the shop fabbing different sized FMICs and other one-off ST parts. We are one of the few shops that actually races what we make - and tweak the products to get the best results. I hope this answers the questions.

 

[FearTheSnail]

[MENTION=542]joe@2j-racing[/MENTION]

Could you take a log of the car with intake temp and charge air temp in the log? Curious to see what kind of temperature rise you will see on a pull from 2,000 rpms - redline.

 

[Hijinx]

What we are saying is - like our other products - we based our design off two factors - dyno results (we have a dynojet in house) and results on the track. We gave the specifics regarding efficiency on the FMIC and we posted dynos. A lot of local ST owners see us at the track and at the shop fabbing different sized FMICs and other one-off ST parts. We are one of the few shops that actually races what we make - and tweak the products to get the best results. I hope this answers the questions.

I must have missed the dynos. Also, I've seen the core volume is 408. Its middle of the pack, which isn't the end all be all factor, but almost 1/3 of it is covered by the crash bar. If you don't have the time to answer questions at this moment, saying so would be more acceptable than playing dodgeball.

I'm not trying to bash you or your work... Every time I see a Spec-V, I think 2JR. I know your intake actually does something for the car... I just have questions that I feel other people will benefit from.

 

[AzNightmare]

I hope this answers the questions.

Joe, I feel you are trying to give answers, but answering things that weren't really asked...
We're not trying to offend you and we know you test your products thoroughly, but that info doesn't really answer our questions:

1.) How does air flow through it it's blocked by the crash beam, and;
2.) Is there a deflector inside that directs air to the top portion?

-Do you have any pictures of the IC mounted with the front bumper on? The pictures posted on the site and in this thread have been just the IC without the bumper on.

-How much more does this IC weigh compared to the OEM? Because this is the biggest IC in the market, I would think it most likely also weighs the most?

Is it tube and fin or bar and plate?

 

[commonplatypus]

The burden of proof should be on the vendor to provide things such as datalogs that their product works as advertised. I don't understand the resistance to this concept or the other questions posted in this thread. They weren't offensive or accusatory, but skeptical; as they should be. This is an expensive part and people are right to want to get the most for their money.

Specifications such as core volume, performance (charge temp, pressure drop, intake temp), fitment, and weight are far more telling than a dyno graph as intercoolers do not directly increase power output from the car; but merely allow it (to my understanding) to hit programmed performance targets more easily and consistently. If this sort of info is not possible to provide, then that should be communicated appropriately with an explanation of why as it looks weird not to. Hopefully you can come through on these requests with more than a simple "trust us" type statement.

Just my two cents.

I'm interested in seeing how this intercooler holds up to others on the market right now, as well as my MTC intercooler.

 

[WeTheNorth]

The burden of proof should be on the vendor to provide things such as datalogs that their product works as advertised. I don't understand the resistance to this concept or the other questions posted in this thread. They weren't offensive or accusatory, but skeptical; as they should be. This is an expensive part and people are right to want to get the most for their money.

Specifications such as core volume, performance (charge temp, pressure drop, intake temp), fitment, and weight are far more telling than a dyno graph as intercoolers do not directly increase power output from the car; but merely allow it (to my understanding) to hit programmed performance targets more easily and consistently. If this sort of info is not possible to provide, then that should be communicated appropriately with an explanation of why as it looks weird not to. Hopefully you can come through on these requests with more than a simple "trust us" type statement.

Just my two cents.

I'm interested in seeing how this intercooler holds up to others on the market right now, as well as my MTC intercooler.

That's all we're asking, give the people what they want! Info info info

 

[joe@2j-racing]

Just curious if anyone here has actually went to our site and read the description on our intercooler? Browsing Cobb, Mishimoto and Mountune's website - our website provides more details on the intercooler then any of those. But I suppose they get a pass, because of their brand?

Take a look for yourself.
http://www.2j-racing.com/fiesta-st/2jr-full-race-intercooler.html

Not sure any of those guys hold several National Championship racing titles in FWD and RWD. Nor will you see them at the track as often as we are - we recently finished a FRS build that is leading points in SCCA Majors in STU. We are a race shop, we build race car parts for the street and we are always testing.

 

[Hijinx]

"I won't answer your questions, but here are my credentials. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me."

 

[twolf]

[MENTION=759]Hijinx[/MENTION], clear your PMs. I've been trying to PM you.

 

[Hijinx]

[MENTION=759]Hijinx[/MENTION], clear your PMs. I've been trying to PM you.

It should be a little more clear now.

 

[WeTheNorth]

What a joke this has all become, asking for basic information and we get complete nonsense back. Who cares what you've won, it does not reflect this product. Provide the info that's being asked, I don't know why this is becoming such a chore