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Meaty Tires Thread
- Thread starter airjor13
- Start date
- Tags don't like rubber band low profile no need to apply meaty tires yummmm
Hey Rick,
No worries, I understand how poor my geometry is and for the time being I am happy with it, I plan to explore DIY control arms to fix this but just been to busy at the moment. Once I put on the new tires though it will get raised up and properly aligned.
Thank you for your concern![[thankyou]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_thankyou.gif "Thank you [thankyou]")
![[hihi]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_hihi.gif "Hi Hi [hihi]")
No worries, I understand how poor my geometry is and for the time being I am happy with it, I plan to explore DIY control arms to fix this but just been to busy at the moment. Once I put on the new tires though it will get raised up and properly aligned.
Thank you for your concern
Like rick already explained in great detail it depends on the tire and it's sidewall stiffness and the air pressure and other things but on my 15x8 pro race 1.2 I went with bfg sport comp 2 in 195/55/15 because it was suggested by rick and others to have tread width be slightly narrower than the wheel width for a very slight stretch for best response. The tread width on those bfg are 7.7 which is right around where most 205 are and some narrower 215s are so these are wide from a 195 that's why it's good to go by actual specs not sidewall specs. To answer your question I'm running 40 psi front and 37 in the rear and mine feels great and I noticed hardly no loss in turn in response vs the stock setup and it certainly doesn't feel "squishy" it's very sharp and has very good grip for a 340 treadwear tire. I HIGHLY recommend going with a lightweight 15 if you like the looks preferably at least 8 inches wide. I would get the tread width slightly narrower than the wheel width and run a lot of air pressure and you will love it. My car also rides very much so better than stock. I love it....I have a wider foot print and better handling braking and acceleration because I was able to drop 7 lbs per rim compared to stock and on top of all that the car rides way better and tires are cheaper....it really is a win win win if you like the looks of 15s on this car (like I do) then I suggest going for it just do your homework on tire choice and setup etc....
IF I were to ever go to 15x8s, they would get shod with one of the excellent 200 tread wear, 225/45-15 gummies available, regardless of whether or not that size is "ideal for" an 8" wide wheel, according to anyone on here.
To me at least, THAT is the WHOLE reason to go to a 15x8, along with the un-sprung/centrifugal weight savings!
Along with the fact that it looks mean as long as the car is lowered at least a little.![[wink]](/images/smilies/wink.gif "Wink [wink]")
To me at least, THAT is the WHOLE reason to go to a 15x8, along with the un-sprung/centrifugal weight savings!
Along with the fact that it looks mean as long as the car is lowered at least a little.
It may seem I am totally against 225s on 15x8 but not so, in many if not most cases the car will be faster on the 205 size tire and have better feedback and response and weight a bit less which is a lot of the reason faster the actual tire specs and construction is at play here so a stiffer sidewall, perhaps a bit narrower tread width 225 might be the best tire for the 8" wheel which would be great.
The new version of the Rival S, the 1.5, 7.8" tread width is supposed to have stiffer sidewalls now, the version I have needed wider rims to work properly as was shown in testing but would work at least better in theory if not practice on an 8 than it used to.
The rather expensive Yokohama in 205 has a 7.7" tread width so nearly as wide so effectively the same and would be great on an 8 and look nearly as wide and in fact just might be as some tires the tread width increases a bit with a little stretch.
The other 225s are in the 8" tread width area so having a bit of a stretch on a 205 might end up being even as wide as they are but sidewall width might make them look less so.
The Federal RS-R has just a 7.2" tread width so not going to look the same on an 8 as the Yoko or Rival
As mentioned many times the sidewall specs are guidelines at best, they do not accurately tell the real width of the tire, have to look up real specs.
The new version of the Rival S, the 1.5, 7.8" tread width is supposed to have stiffer sidewalls now, the version I have needed wider rims to work properly as was shown in testing but would work at least better in theory if not practice on an 8 than it used to.
The rather expensive Yokohama in 205 has a 7.7" tread width so nearly as wide so effectively the same and would be great on an 8 and look nearly as wide and in fact just might be as some tires the tread width increases a bit with a little stretch.
The other 225s are in the 8" tread width area so having a bit of a stretch on a 205 might end up being even as wide as they are but sidewall width might make them look less so.
The Federal RS-R has just a 7.2" tread width so not going to look the same on an 8 as the Yoko or Rival
As mentioned many times the sidewall specs are guidelines at best, they do not accurately tell the real width of the tire, have to look up real specs.
^^^The vast majority of the 225/45-15s out there have between a 7.8" and 8.0" tread width, save for the Federals.
Again, of course you are correct for ultimate, optimized, 'on the edge' road course use, but for mostly summer street use (with an occasional SCCA "Track Night" thrown in), the 200 tread wear 225/45-15s on a 15x8 would be just fine (even the older, softer sidewalled, Rival Ses), and 'ride' a little bit better on the street due to less stretch.
Many will say, "You don't need a sticky, 200 tread wear donut for street use", which may be correct (depending on how much grip one wants even on the street!), but that is the only way to get that size tire currently.
Again, of course you are correct for ultimate, optimized, 'on the edge' road course use, but for mostly summer street use (with an occasional SCCA "Track Night" thrown in), the 200 tread wear 225/45-15s on a 15x8 would be just fine (even the older, softer sidewalled, Rival Ses), and 'ride' a little bit better on the street due to less stretch.
Many will say, "You don't need a sticky, 200 tread wear donut for street use", which may be correct (depending on how much grip one wants even on the street!), but that is the only way to get that size tire currently.
I agree on the less stretch riding a bit better
And for your use, the 225 on the 8 will be fine, I just wanted to point out some 205's are nearly as wide as some 225's and some 225's are wider yet so a 205 could still be quite wide and work really well and perhaps a bit better on an 8 than some 225's.
Of course best to look at weight, diameter, and price as a lower price tire that does not hold up as long is not always a better value especially when adding in mounting, balancing, etc....
I would be happiest if they put out these killer tires in 16's and I could get proper 16x9 wheels, I could run larger brake rotors that way as it was a great deal of work and considerable cost to put 15s over the 11.75" BBK.
For now though the best all around route without major work is 15x8 and the tire of choice for the application and budget
And for your use, the 225 on the 8 will be fine, I just wanted to point out some 205's are nearly as wide as some 225's and some 225's are wider yet so a 205 could still be quite wide and work really well and perhaps a bit better on an 8 than some 225's.
Of course best to look at weight, diameter, and price as a lower price tire that does not hold up as long is not always a better value especially when adding in mounting, balancing, etc....
I would be happiest if they put out these killer tires in 16's and I could get proper 16x9 wheels, I could run larger brake rotors that way as it was a great deal of work and considerable cost to put 15s over the 11.75" BBK.
For now though the best all around route without major work is 15x8 and the tire of choice for the application and budget
I agree on the less stretch riding a bit better
And for your use, the 225 on the 8 will be fine, I just wanted to point out some 205's are nearly as wide as some 225's and some 225's are wider yet so a 205 could still be quite wide and work really well and perhaps a bit better on an 8 than some 225's.
Of course best to look at weight, diameter, and price as a lower price tire that does not hold up as long is not always a better value especially when adding in mounting, balancing, etc....
I would be happiest if they put out these killer tires in 16's and I could get proper 16x9 wheels, I could run larger brake rotors that way as it was a great deal of work and considerable cost to put 15s over the 11.75" BBK.
For now though the best all around route without major work is 15x8 and the tire of choice for the application and budget
And for your use, the 225 on the 8 will be fine, I just wanted to point out some 205's are nearly as wide as some 225's and some 225's are wider yet so a 205 could still be quite wide and work really well and perhaps a bit better on an 8 than some 225's.
Of course best to look at weight, diameter, and price as a lower price tire that does not hold up as long is not always a better value especially when adding in mounting, balancing, etc....
I would be happiest if they put out these killer tires in 16's and I could get proper 16x9 wheels, I could run larger brake rotors that way as it was a great deal of work and considerable cost to put 15s over the 11.75" BBK.
For now though the best all around route without major work is 15x8 and the tire of choice for the application and budget
^^^The vast majority of the 225/45-15s out there have between a 7.8" and 8.0" tread width, save for the Federals.
Again, of course you are correct for ultimate, optimized, 'on the edge' road course use, but for mostly summer street use (with an occasional SCCA "Track Night" thrown in), the 200 tread wear 225/45-15s on a 15x8 would be just fine (even the older, softer sidewalled, Rival Ses), and 'ride' a little bit better on the street due to less stretch.
Many will say, "You don't need a sticky, 200 tread wear donut for street use", which may be correct (depending on how much grip one wants even on the street!), but that is the only way to get that size tire currently.
Again, of course you are correct for ultimate, optimized, 'on the edge' road course use, but for mostly summer street use (with an occasional SCCA "Track Night" thrown in), the 200 tread wear 225/45-15s on a 15x8 would be just fine (even the older, softer sidewalled, Rival Ses), and 'ride' a little bit better on the street due to less stretch.
Many will say, "You don't need a sticky, 200 tread wear donut for street use", which may be correct (depending on how much grip one wants even on the street!), but that is the only way to get that size tire currently.
^^^I would agree with you (for MY preferences/purposes) IF those 195/55-15 SC2 actual dimensions were available in a Rival S/1.5 tire, as (with all due respect) I am not all that fond of the SC2s having had them on my previous car.
NOT that they are a "bad" tire choice at all, especially for long lasting street wear and deep standing water/hard rain use, just not up to the dry grip levels, to me (given the accepted, comparably lightning quick wear rates that come with them of course) of the 200-240 tread wear rated tires.
Could it be that those SC2s don't have very stiff sidewalls to begin with, hence, when you stretch them out on an 8" wide wheel, they STILL ride very well?![[dunno]](/images/smilies/icon_smile_dunno.gif "Dunno [dunno]")
NOT that they are a "bad" tire choice at all, especially for long lasting street wear and deep standing water/hard rain use, just not up to the dry grip levels, to me (given the accepted, comparably lightning quick wear rates that come with them of course) of the 200-240 tread wear rated tires.
Could it be that those SC2s don't have very stiff sidewalls to begin with, hence, when you stretch them out on an 8" wide wheel, they STILL ride very well?
^^^I would agree with you (for MY preferences/purposes) IF those 195/55-15 SC2 actual dimensions were available in a Rival S/1.5 tire, as (with all due respect) I am not all that fond of the SC2s having had them on my previous car.
NOT that they are a "bad" tire choice at all, especially for long lasting street wear and deep standing water/hard rain use, just not up to the dry grip levels, to me (given the accepted, comparably lightning quick wear rates that come with them of course) of the 200-240 tread wear rated tires.
Could it be that those SC2s don't have very stiff sidewalls to begin with, hence, when you stretch them out on an 8" wide wheel, they STILL ride very well?
NOT that they are a "bad" tire choice at all, especially for long lasting street wear and deep standing water/hard rain use, just not up to the dry grip levels, to me (given the accepted, comparably lightning quick wear rates that come with them of course) of the 200-240 tread wear rated tires.
Could it be that those SC2s don't have very stiff sidewalls to begin with, hence, when you stretch them out on an 8" wide wheel, they STILL ride very well?
Overall grip and handling seems a little better (I had optional all seasons mind you). I would def consider the new Rival 1.5 in 225/45 but I wish they had them in 225/50 I would be much more interested. I'm thinking about the 205/50 star specs 7.5 tread width 8.4 section and decently sticky and only 19 lbs and only .2 inch shorter overall than my current tires (23.2 vs 23.4) and I've heard they do pretty good in rain etc. price isn't bad either. I'm probably leaning towards those when the time comes
One thing often overlooked is that 8" wide wheels measure 9" wide lip to lip, 9's measure 10", etc...so as mentioned the 225 Rival S 1.5 with the stiffer sidewalls might look quite good on an 8 and work quite well. It might not be the absolute optimal but still damn good which is highly likely.
I would still prefer it on a 9" wheel though and I will admit part of that is the look and another part is I wanted the challenge of fitting 9's which was a lot of work, almost as much as developing the BBKS to fit under them.
Having the wider track certainly helps in the handling department as well.
I would still prefer it on a 9" wheel though and I will admit part of that is the look and another part is I wanted the challenge of fitting 9's which was a lot of work, almost as much as developing the BBKS to fit under them.
Having the wider track certainly helps in the handling department as well.
So I've had my 15x8 TD 1.2's w/ 205/50/15 Direzza Star Specs on for about a week or so and I figured I'd give my thoughts on the setup in general and the tires themselves. I was a little worried at first at whether the wheels would look too small for the car, but once they were mounted those fears went away. They look bigger in person than they do in pictures and I?ve got nothing but compliments. They look meaty and aggressive, and I?m still convinced that the smaller wheel ?meaty? setup is the way to go over the larger 17 with little sidewall setups. As for the tires, they grip well (Haven?t been able to heat cycle them yet), communicate well and actually drive quite well in heavy rain thus far. The 205?s stretch provide nice feedback and quick transitions due to the sidewall stiffness.
However, all that being said, I will be going with 225?s next time around. You can still spin in second quite frequently. I believe a 225 wheel will be significantly faster than the 205 on the same wheel. So I?m very happy with the setup, but I will be moving to a more aggressive fitment next time around. I?d still highly recommend the TD 1.2?s w/ 205/50/15 to anyone but the most extreme guys. (My car will see track and AutoX use on a P&P?d X37) so for me a 225 may be a better fit.
(Will update pictures when I get home)
However, all that being said, I will be going with 225?s next time around. You can still spin in second quite frequently. I believe a 225 wheel will be significantly faster than the 205 on the same wheel. So I?m very happy with the setup, but I will be moving to a more aggressive fitment next time around. I?d still highly recommend the TD 1.2?s w/ 205/50/15 to anyone but the most extreme guys. (My car will see track and AutoX use on a P&P?d X37) so for me a 225 may be a better fit.
(Will update pictures when I get home)
I like those star specs I like the look the weight the price and performance all seem to be pretty good and seem to be a nice fit for these wheels. I also like the 225/45 bfg rival s 1.5 that just came out that may be another route to go I think that would perform awesome too. That's probably the two I'm between next time I purchase tires if I don't decide to go with the 195/55 sport comp 2 again which is an awesome setup for a daily who racks up miles like myself because you can actually get some decent mileage out of them while still having pretty good grip for what they are and they too also do very well in the rain
You and I have very different definitions of meaty.
My definition of meaty is "widest" not necessarily tallest, I can't stand skinny tires on wide wheels. It's like "Why did you bother with a wider wheel at all???" Or worse, "Why in god's name have you decreased you contact patch??"
If I could, I would have 335-series tires on all four corners. Because I'm a goober like that. But I'll settle for 215 for now.
That said I am wider and taller at 215-45-17; much more comfortable than stock and now with ST Suspensions XTA coilovers (set a little higher) it glides. So smooth on pavement. It acts up when you hit BIGGER obstacles but most smaller divots and whatnot in the road are a non-issue.
My definition of meaty is "widest" not necessarily tallest, I can't stand skinny tires on wide wheels. It's like "Why did you bother with a wider wheel at all???" Or worse, "Why in god's name have you decreased you contact patch??"
If I could, I would have 335-series tires on all four corners. Because I'm a goober like that. But I'll settle for 215 for now.
That said I am wider and taller at 215-45-17; much more comfortable than stock and now with ST Suspensions XTA coilovers (set a little higher) it glides. So smooth on pavement. It acts up when you hit BIGGER obstacles but most smaller divots and whatnot in the road are a non-issue.
What wheel and tire set up is that on that blue ST??? ITS GORGEOUS
You are correct, the BFG SC II will last a great deal longer and it will be far better in the rain.
I ran into a downpour with 225 Rival S and it was a bit interesting when I hit standing water, good thing I grew up driving in winter weather so it was not a big problem, hang on, no sudden movements and hope nobody near you loses it. When not hitting standing water they were pretty good but also had 1k miles on them, as they wear they will become a bit dangerous in heavy rain. When below 50 degrees they lose a great deal of grip as well. The new 1.5 is the same tire with a stiffer sidewall for better response, which I have no issue with on 9" wide wheels with the S.
The very top summer only tires really are race tires made to suite the highest level of performance, meet DOT standards so they can be used in stock car classes, they are as sticky as race tires used to be not that long ago and really are not the best choice for the street for many drivers. Best to have multiple sets of wheels and tires to meet your needs and swap them out as required. I live in snow country and if had to regularly drive in it I would have the best winter performance tires made but I get by fine with the NeoGen which is a 3 season tire at best but a very good one. Then I have the Rival S which I just put back on yet have to wait for the temp to warm up in the afternoon on most days right now before I can drive the car. Then I have track wheels, sold the tires as did not want to have to store them all winter as they would be ruined unless in our heated storage bay in the RV, where they took up to much space for 2 winters already. If I wanted to autocross I would have to have wheels and tires for that as well if I wanted the right tires my car would be classed in. I could have 5 different sets of wheels and tires and spares for some of them!
Not sure I will hit the tracks any longer now, eye issues so have to see what surgery can do to fix them, and other priorities now that I turn 65 next month that I need to setup for my old age when I get there If I go to the track(road race) or autocross I will just be a bit slower on the Rival S now and get buy with two sets of wheels and tires. They hook up quite well so if I was into drag racing I could use them there, 60 ft times would suffer but still I would make some quick passes with good trap speed.
Mentioning all this just to point out how specific some tires are designed, now more than ever, lots of choices but they are designed for uses that are not always compatible if you want the best tire for each use.
Most have to settle for the best compromise that fits their budget and just enjoy the car with what they have to run, it was easier 49 years ago when I started having fun modding cars to handle better and much cheaper comparatively.
I ran into a downpour with 225 Rival S and it was a bit interesting when I hit standing water, good thing I grew up driving in winter weather so it was not a big problem, hang on, no sudden movements and hope nobody near you loses it. When not hitting standing water they were pretty good but also had 1k miles on them, as they wear they will become a bit dangerous in heavy rain. When below 50 degrees they lose a great deal of grip as well. The new 1.5 is the same tire with a stiffer sidewall for better response, which I have no issue with on 9" wide wheels with the S.
The very top summer only tires really are race tires made to suite the highest level of performance, meet DOT standards so they can be used in stock car classes, they are as sticky as race tires used to be not that long ago and really are not the best choice for the street for many drivers. Best to have multiple sets of wheels and tires to meet your needs and swap them out as required. I live in snow country and if had to regularly drive in it I would have the best winter performance tires made but I get by fine with the NeoGen which is a 3 season tire at best but a very good one. Then I have the Rival S which I just put back on yet have to wait for the temp to warm up in the afternoon on most days right now before I can drive the car. Then I have track wheels, sold the tires as did not want to have to store them all winter as they would be ruined unless in our heated storage bay in the RV, where they took up to much space for 2 winters already. If I wanted to autocross I would have to have wheels and tires for that as well if I wanted the right tires my car would be classed in. I could have 5 different sets of wheels and tires and spares for some of them!
Not sure I will hit the tracks any longer now, eye issues so have to see what surgery can do to fix them, and other priorities now that I turn 65 next month that I need to setup for my old age when I get there
If I go to the track(road race) or autocross I will just be a bit slower on the Rival S now and get buy with two sets of wheels and tires. They hook up quite well so if I was into drag racing I could use them there, 60 ft times would suffer but still I would make some quick passes with good trap speed. Mentioning all this just to point out how specific some tires are designed, now more than ever, lots of choices but they are designed for uses that are not always compatible if you want the best tire for each use.
Most have to settle for the best compromise that fits their budget and just enjoy the car with what they have to run, it was easier 49 years ago when I started having fun modding cars to handle better and much cheaper comparatively.
I understand the narrow tire on wide wheel argument but one must understand that a wider wheel is going to plant the entire contact patch better and have a better response than the same tire would on a narrower wheel and in many cases it will even make the tire appear wider and actually BE wider vs having it on a narrow wheel. I would love to try a set of those new 1.5 rivals on my 15x8s in 225/45 since they now have a stiffer sidewall I think it would work very well. I do not race the car on tracks so I have to decide if the cons that come with it are worth it. On spirited backroad driving the setup I have now grips very well and I'm not sure I need more. I would like to try some of the stickier tires once I get a little suspension work weather it be lowering springs or coilovers. Having the wider wheel gives ya more options you can run the wide 195 I have or the other 205s on the market or even go with a stiffer sidewalled 225 the options are there. You could go with s 225 on a 7 inch wheel too but the performance is gonna be compromised some and feel sloppy compared to having it on an 8 inch wheel. I wanted a wider wheel because it will provide better performance over a 7 inch wheel weather it's got a wide 195 a 205 or a 225.
Correct, correct and correct
It comes down to the real specs and how stiff the sidewalls are but in most cases a 195 on a 7" wheel, 205 on an 8" wheel, 225 on a 9" wheel works the best in overall lap times, feedback, control, etc....the 196 BFG SCII even works on an 8" wheel because it really is more like a 205 and even wider than some 205's I have seen.
The 225 Rival S, not the new version, specs show it to have a 7.8" tread width but on the 9" wheels I run I can measure it at 8.25" and could probably say they are 8.4" wide as likely they have contact at that width or even more.
It comes down to the real specs and how stiff the sidewalls are but in most cases a 195 on a 7" wheel, 205 on an 8" wheel, 225 on a 9" wheel works the best in overall lap times, feedback, control, etc....the 196 BFG SCII even works on an 8" wheel because it really is more like a 205 and even wider than some 205's I have seen.
The 225 Rival S, not the new version, specs show it to have a 7.8" tread width but on the 9" wheels I run I can measure it at 8.25" and could probably say they are 8.4" wide as likely they have contact at that width or even more.
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