Finally test drove a FiST and FoRS and I finally get it…

[SpeedandPower]

Hi again all, I’m new here and have been asking questions as I am in the market and want to say thank you to everyone so far. After getting to test drive a stock FiST sans Recaro seats and a FoRS I have to say I think I finally get it.

There are a few local RS’ to me and one is Nitrous Blue, so I was definitely interested and the price is a bit below KBB. Damn that car sounds good when you get in it and was fun. The Recaro seats also felt fine to me, maybe even good, so I can see what others were saying about about I need to test them out for myself to decide if the issues people do have with them apply to me or not.

Granted, it was a short test drive. Just down the road to the freeway on ramp and then off at the next on ramp, down the street and back at the dealership. So I definitely wanted more time in the car but I got on it as much as I could in that short time. I’m not a racing driver either and wouldn’t say I am at all practiced with actual sport cars but I’d say I’m at least above average for just your daily driver / commuter.

I’d have to say overall what people have said is true. The RS is damn fast, no doubt about it, but… I guess never meet your heroes? It’s not that I didn’t like it, nor that it wasn’t fun, and not that I wasn’t impressed. But it definitely felt like it lacked something.

I think what others have said here and Matt from The Smoking Tire podcast/YT channel said sum it up nicely. The FiST might not be as fast as other cars, but it sure does feel fast and is fun.

The RS was nice to drive, but didn’t feel thrilling or exciting. Again, granted I didn’t really get to do a lot with it. But the FiST test drive wasn’t that long either, but I got to get it’s tail out in a round about, and had some fun with it on both a few roads and a few different sections of two different freeways.

So I think I get it now. Damn the FiST is fun as hell. The test drive of the FiST really helped me realize how amazing this little car is even with it being stock and the test drive of the RS, along with the $10,000+ price difference and the rusting in several areas (car was owned in Nebraska for a couple of years) also bad curbing to all rims helped me make up my mind.

I have a PPI appointment tomorrow morning for a FiST I’m looking at and might be mine before thr end of the day tomorrow!

Thanks again to everyone that has helped me out so far!

 

[XR650R]

 

[SpeedandPower]

View attachment 64897

I’ve seen the light. Amen sister.

 

[atlantaM3]

Yep, the RS at 55-60 mph on a country backroad doesnt even feel 'on' yet. Sort of boring in that situation. Even more so on a straight road. You need tight canyon/mtn roads to really experience what its capable of, which is a LOT. When tuned, they are something to behold on a tight road. Several Porsche have been confused...

Fiesta is a way better choice for a daily - its fun, gets really good MPG, generally reliable, parts are cheap, easy to park due to size, etc. Do a mild tune and it will be a riot.

It is really good on a tight road with the stock suspension. Only change there I would recommend is a front traction brace or torque gusset such as TB Performance Products Traction Bar 2014-2019 Fiesta ST – whoosh motorsports. Also the rear trunk brace seems to be a good add for the $ too.

Recommend one with Sync3 and a backup camera if you can. Both are easily added if you want later on, so get the best condition car.

 

[SpeedandPower]

Yep, the RS at 55-60 mph on a country backroad doesnt even feel 'on' yet. Sort of boring in that situation. Even more so on a straight road. You need tight canyon/mtn roads to really experience what it’s capable of, which is a LOT. When tuned, they are something to behold on a tight road. Several Porsche have been confused...

Absolutely, I knew I wasn’t going to be able to really get into it, plus I lack the driving skills to really do so anyway. Hopefully only for now. But I knew that and knew I needed to compare the RS to the ST in the settings that I had available.

Fiesta is a way better choice for a daily - its fun, gets really good MPG, generally reliable, parts are cheap, easy to park due to size, etc. Do a mild tune and it will be a riot.

And this is the result I came away with. Daily driving, picking the kids up, etc. I think the RS would just be on cruise control and it would be subdued. Obviously there would be moments, but it definitely feels like a car that needs to be pushed to really get the most out of it. A la Ken Block, rip.

It is really good on a tight road with the stock suspension. Only change there I would recommend is a front traction brace or torque gusset such as TB Performance Products Traction Bar 2014-2019 Fiesta ST – whoosh motorsports. Also the rear trunk brace seems to be a good add for the $ too.

Recommend one with Sync3 and a backup camera if you can. Both are easily added if you want later on, so get the best condition car.

Nice, I’m definitely open to buying either stock or one modded, of course within reason. Ideally I’m in the market for an 18 or 19, in rust orange, but for now I need to get a car asap as my ‘04 Corolla finally went out on me.

So if everything plans out with the 15 tomorrow after the PPI, then I’ll have time to look for an 18 or 19 that I really want to spend money on.

 

[Zeille]

Nice, I’m definitely open to buying either stock or one modded, of course within reason. Ideally I’m in the market for an 18 or 19, in rust orange, but for now I need to get a car asap as my ‘04 Corolla finally went out on me.

So if everything plans out with the 15 tomorrow after the PPI, then I’ll have time to look for an 18 or 19 that I really want to spend money on.

I would definitely go for an 18/19... and the Spice Orange just looks so good.
Primary advantages of that over a 15:
Sync3 (mostly about the Apple CarPlay and Android Auto), revised suspension (rides a bit better), revised head design (less prone to those issues that the 14/15s were plagued with), backup camera, and a few other things I'm sure you could find from that one post here.

 

[Intuit]

I got to get it’s tail out in a round about

If you meant that literally, they have the front/rear tire pressures set incorrectly / wrong.
It's on the door jamb sticker. The rear tire pressure must be lower than the front.
Fail to do this and it will fish-tail. (which is potentially dangerous)
The FiST will always hold the rear otherwise.

 

[Dialcaliper]

If you meant that literally, they have the front/rear tire pressures set incorrectly / wrong.
It's on the door jamb sticker. The rear tire pressure must be lower than the front.
Fail to do this and it will fish-tail. (which is potentially dangerous)
The FiST will always hold the rear otherwise.

Adjusting F/R pressures will affect the handling balance a bit, but nowhere near as much as adding a sway bar and nowhere near as terrifying a deal as you make it sound. It’s perfectly valid to adjust pressures on purpose. The only thing that’s “dangerous” is pushing the car hard on severely underinflated tires.

In fact, anyone that has changed tire and wheel sizes away from the stock 205/40 XL rated tire size and are still using the door jamb pressures are also doing it “wrong”. Different tire sizes require different pressures to reach the same behavior and load rating, and XL tires actually require much higher pressures - running 39/36psi on a set of SL rated tires of different size are significantly overinflated. For example, the for the common alternative 215/45R16’s many people use, the equivalent pressure to reach the same load rating points as the stock tires is 32/29psi

Personally, I appreciate the “everyday fun” part of the FiST. It feels fast and playful even at legal speeds, and can even be actually “fast” with some tweaking. It falls in the same camp as other lightweight, fun sports cars and hot hatches like the Miata, 86, Mini, etc. It’s a car you can just enjoy driving both on track and canyons, but also puts a smile on your face just driving to work or the grocery store.

While I haven’t personally driven one, the FoRS falls in the other camp of cars that are actually “fast” out of the box compared with the FiST, but in doing so feel totally totally at normal speeds. Porsches, Evos, Corvettes, BMW M-cars, GT-Rs and most Exotics etc all suffer from this and only come alive on a track or at speeds far higher than what’s “responsible” on public roads. And even then some of them just go from boring to “surgical”

For me personally, “fun” car over “fast” car any day.

 

[Intuit]

From a predictability and control standpoint fishtailing out of your lane on a public street is dangerous. Public streets aren't race tracks where lane control is a fuzzy affair.

The mistake that people make is setting front/rear even as is commonly done with other vehicles. The other mistake people make is rotating the tires front to rear without readjusting pressures to compensate. On this car it is neglectful and will result with fishtailing.

Barring other mistakes with setup, fishtailing doesn't occur when the pressure ratios are set according to the door jamb. You want the front to break loose before the rear because you have more options for responding to and controlling it. Most people are also able to detect traction loss up front much more quickly than in the rear; quicker reaction times result with safer handling.

 

[Stubborn Approach]

If you meant that literally, they have the front/rear tire pressures set incorrectly / wrong.
It's on the door jamb sticker. The rear tire pressure must be lower than the front.
Fail to do this and it will fish-tail. (which is potentially dangerous)
The FiST will always hold the rear otherwise.

Used FiSTs when I was test driving them over the Summer often had this issue but it wasn’t tire air pressure related, it was worn out rear dampers that allowed the rear of the vehicle to lose grip on initial turn in while street driving. When I bought mine and replaced the rear dampers the issue went away.

Losing front traction before the rear is almost a guarantee with properly working dampers since you will be engaging the bumpstops under every meaningful weight transfer & that is to prevent rear rotation, which makes the lawyers happy.

 

[SpeedandPower]

I would definitely go for an 18/19... and the Spice Orange just looks so good.
Primary advantages of that over a 15:
Sync3 (mostly about the Apple CarPlay and Android Auto), revised suspension (rides a bit better), revised head design (less prone to those issues that the 14/15s were plagued with), backup camera, and a few other things I'm sure you could find from that one post here.

It does, I like both the rust orange ( I thought it was rust? Is it spice?) and the envy green, but trying to find either with recaro seats literally takes seraching the entire country. Yay!

Definitely like the back up camera, and would like to avoid any issues with the 14-16s with the head gaskets. Or was it something else? But the back up camera was included in the 17 model, but only with the recaro trim? Or is it only on the 18 & 19 models? The 18 and 19 models also have a..... wider frame for better handling? Or is it another part of the car? Cant' recall as I am trying to learn as much as I can and trying to remember everything.

 

[SpeedandPower]

If you meant that literally, they have the front/rear tire pressures set incorrectly / wrong.
It's on the door jamb sticker. The rear tire pressure must be lower than the front.
Fail to do this and it will fish-tail. (which is potentially dangerous)
The FiST will always hold the rear otherwise.

Yes, I did mean it literally. To be fair, the roads were wet as it had been raining all day, it was sprinkling during the test drive and the tires were worn some. It didn't fish tail and wasn't at all dangerous as I was only going maybe 15-25 mph and just kicked out for a second or two. But, good to know and I will keep that in mind.

 

[SpeedandPower]

Adjusting F/R pressures will affect the handling balance a bit, but nowhere near as much as adding a sway bar and nowhere near as terrifying a deal as you make it sound. It’s perfectly valid to adjust pressures on purpose. The only thing that’s “dangerous” is pushing the car hard on severely underinflated tires.

👍🏻

In fact, anyone that has changed tire and wheel sizes away from the stock 205/40 XL rated tire size and are still using the door jamb pressures are also doing it “wrong”. Different tire sizes require different pressures to reach the same behavior and load rating, and XL tires actually require much higher pressures - running 39/36psi on a set of SL rated tires of different size are significantly overinflated. For example, the for the common alternative 215/45R16’s many people use, the equivalent pressure to reach the same load rating points as the stock tires is 32/29psi

👍🏻

Personally, I appreciate the “everyday fun” part of the FiST. It feels fast and playful even at legal speeds, and can even be actually “fast” with some tweaking. It falls in the same camp as other lightweight, fun sports cars and hot hatches like the Miata, 86, Mini, etc. It’s a car you can just enjoy driving both on track and canyons, but also puts a smile on your face just driving to work or the grocery store.

This is exactly how I felt taking it out for multiple test drives now. It might be "that fast", etc. But man, it was just damn fun, plain and simple.

While I haven’t personally driven one, the FoRS falls in the other camp of cars that are actually “fast” out of the box compared with the FiST, but in doing so feel totally totally at normal speeds. Porsches, Evos, Corvettes, BMW M-cars, GT-Rs and most Exotics etc all suffer from this and only come alive on a track or at speeds far higher than what’s “responsible” on public roads. And even then some of them just go from boring to “surgical”

Makes a lot of sense and I can now compare the FiST's fun factor against the FoRS, which was fun, but my test drive was so limited and it's so capable, that I really didn't get anywhere near close to seeing what it can do and how much fun it can be. My 08' GTI that had about $12k in up grades, and was fun, but didn't feel as fun, plus it had the triptronic transmission, so it didn't quite have that full manual feel. And my buddy's GT3 RS, which was bananas, and we were able to do some runs in the canyons, but I wasn't driving and now having it to compare to the FiST, seemed to lack that fun factor. Not that both the FoRS and the GT3 weren't fun, but I think you nailed it, as daily drivers, or weekend cars, you really need the right settings and experience to really take advantage of them, I got that a but with my friend's GT3, but only just. I can totally see why people love the FiST, it's fun anywhere! Sure it lacks more power and straight line speed, but... when I am trying to get on the freeway and get over before the traffic behind me blocks me in behind the camry barely getting up to 45mph, it has more than enough power to get me the hell over and up to "legal speed limits" more than fast enough.

For me personally, “fun” car over “fast” car any day.

This finally clicked with the FiST, and I am so happy it did. Since FoRS' can be found pretty commonly under $30k these days, I was just going to pull the trigger once I found one I liked. But I am glad I had the FiST at least on my raadar and decided to give it a test drive. Totally changed my mind!

 

[SpeedandPower]

Used FiSTs when I was test driving them over the Summer often had this issue but it wasn’t tire air pressure related, it was worn out rear dampers that allowed the rear of the vehicle to lose grip on initial turn in while street driving. When I bought mine and replaced the rear dampers the issue went away.

Losing front traction before the rear is almost a guarantee with properly working dampers since you will be engaging the bumpstops under every meaningful weight transfer & that is to prevent rear rotation, which makes the lawyers happy.

Good to know, how much did this run you out of curiosity?

 

[Stubborn Approach]

Good to know, how much did this run you out of curiosity?

~$350 with the monotube shocks, upper mounts & hardware. You may need new spring pads as well.

 

[Intuit]

Used FiSTs when I was test driving them over the Summer often had this issue but it wasn’t tire air pressure related, it was worn out rear dampers that allowed the rear of the vehicle to lose grip on initial turn in while street driving. When I bought mine and replaced the rear dampers the issue went away.

Losing front traction before the rear is almost a guarantee with properly working dampers since you will be engaging the bumpstops under every meaningful weight transfer & that is to prevent rear rotation, which makes the lawyers happy.

The reason the engineers went against the norm and reduced tire pressure in the rear, is the additional grip that lower pressures can generate.

There are of course, exceptions, such as improper setup and worn out equipment. Good to point.

View: https://youtu.be/NI9Hq0_Mhy0?t=334

 

[SteveS]

Even in 1978 the original Fiesta ran lower tire pressure in the rear. The weight the car carries in the rear is so little compared to the engine in front.

 

[Stubborn Approach]

The car terminally understeers at the limit so when the dampers are working as they should, rear grip far exceeds the front. So much so that the Fiesta is famous for only needing one rear tire on the tarmac in order to navigate corners on a racetrack…

 

[pixelzombie]

It's nice that you got to test drive all 3 of them. My FiST popped up from a carfax email and I bought it the same day of the test drive as it had the color and options I wanted. Now I'm up to Stage 2 and man this car is so much fun. My previous car was a Mazda 3 which also handles well. I'm curious if you've ever driven one.

 

[SpeedandPower]

It's nice that you got to test drive all 3 of them. My FiST popped up from a carfax email and I bought it the same day of the test drive as it had the color and options I wanted. Now I'm up to Stage 2 and man this car is so much fun. My previous car was a Mazda 3 which also handles well. I'm curious if you've ever driven one.

All three? I’ve only test driven the RS and FiST, hope I didn’t make my post sound like I test drove more?

Nice! Yeah I’m still on the hunt, I have one really good prospect but will have to wait and see.