down on power after new turbo/engine.

[valdamere]

Hi hope everyones day is going well, i was hoping you guys might have some info on a pita problem im having. I recently spun a bearing and got a new engine put in along with a collins performance s270 turbo, after the install the car was way down on power, it sounded like it was leaking/dumping boost.
I drove it for a day and the next morning it had a flat battery (may have left the lights on, dont think so). The car started throwing a battery code, took it to a shop and got it smoke tested for leaks, they said it was in limp mode, got the codes cleared, the alternator is working and charging, no battery code now, and now after clearing the code its up on power, somewhere maybe a little under stock power with no codes currently. it still sounds like its dumping out boost, just not as much.
Does anyone know if theres like a protection mode or something ecu related after going into limp mode or anything like that which would limit the power? Or any idea what might be causing it?
appreciate any help, thanks yall

 

[Mega ST]

Check the basics. Proper fuel, proper spark, compression test. Turbo bolts tight? WG hooked up correctly. How much boost are you seeing? Do a log and see what timing and knock look like. Also Check OAR if you have a COBB AP or other tuning device.

 

[thecman02]

Sounds like boost leak is the first big issue. I'd verify that's all good. Also might need to check that wastegate preload was set correct with the new turbo. Also, what was your previous turbo setup? Who's your tuner? Lots of people have tried to use their previous stock turbo tune with new turbo. That will not work. Most tuners and factory tunes will see torque/engine load being out of range and will throw the car in limp mode. It sounds like maybe with the boost leak it is keeping the load down enough to not put the car in limp from that issue.

 

[Mega ST]

Since he had it smoke tested I figured huge boost leak would be mostly ruled out. Def needs to see where the boost sits and airflow. People will actually install a different turbo and not get a tune or at least tune for it themselves? With computer controlled boost control? You could kind of get away with it in the old days with a manual boost controller, but computer controlled boost solenoid? Man, I gotta think more basic. Lol

 

[valdamere]

Im running a collins performance cp4.5 tune, so the correct tune for whats on the car. previous setup was their stage 2 tune with stock turbo. intake/cat/exaust should all be fine for the turbo setup, confirmed with collins that it should be fine. plus it was making more power before with the old stock turbo so i know for sure its got more in it.
They set up the preload etc for the current turbo so possible but at the moment im going to assume its not that.
Compression has been tested and its good, new spark plugs and the fuel rail/injectors are from my old car are known to be working, possible something happened during the install but i dont think so, doesnt sound like its misfiring or running poorly, just down on power/dumping out boost.

I've got an obd2 cable coming in the mail so im gonna run forscan and see how things look, im wondering if the boost solenoid is on its way out and it wont let it make power for protection since it cant read things right but i'll have to wait and see.

Actually now that im thinking about it a while back with the original stage 2 setup i had i kept thinking i could hear a boost leak sometimes and spent
a couple months chasing it, but it seemed to be making power and running fine so i eventually just left it, maybe the solenoid has been on its way out for a while? cable says it arrives tomorrow so hopefully i can check this weekend.

 

[thecman02]

I've seen plenty of smoke/propane tests that miss boost leaks. We might as well wait until he gets a cable and data to save on speculation.

 

[valdamere]

So i got the obd2 cable this morning and several things happened. First, there were a couple of faults, but they were for the doors weirdly, im wondering if they are from when i had the battery issue.
I cleared them and the car seems to be making more power, it still sounds like its losing boost somewhere though, and feels a little sluggish/still down on power from where i expect it to be.

Checking the data log, i'll be honest, i dont know what im doing but i think its the MAP data im looking for? after doing a couple of pulls it was reading about 160-164kpa, which seems to be around ~24psi, the tune should be running 1.8 bar according to the tuner so slightly down, which lines up with the now more quiet but still there boost leak sound.
After the couple of pulls i did have a coolant hose pop off, temps were all fine at the time though so ive got some better clamps on some of the hoses and several new burns on my hand because im stupid decided not to wait for things to cool down. Its all bled and its running fine now, temps are stable. No faults are appearing and im sore and tired so im done for today

If i've done anything wrong or if anyone has any other data that i should be getting let me know, i forgot to take a picture so when i have time i'll do another few pulls and post some pictures.
Oh there was one thing, i had the throttle data going and then i was foot flat all the way up to about 6500 rpm, the throttle was saying only 80-84%, does that sound correct? Not sure what it should be reading at but its something that caught my eye.
thanks again for any insight

 

[Mega ST]

Throttle should read 100%. Can you post your log? Will it open in Datazap? Look at timing and see if the targets are being met. Also you say it feels slower than stock on a larger turbo at 24psi? That would be a massive boost leak and probably seriously over spinning the turbo to make boost. Look at knock retard and afr. What is the OAR? Just to start. A lot more that could be going on too. Also make sure timing marks are correct. Bit that can be a pain.

 

[valdamere]

Ok ive done a few pulls, foot was flat, and took some idle data, that ive put in the zip, i cant check it on datazap unfortunately. It maybe was sounding a little choppy on idle for a bit, not 100%.

 

[Mega ST]

What do you log with? .fsl is a CAD file I think. Not sure what to open it with.

 

[valdamere]

I

What do you log with? .fsl is a CAD file I think. Not sure what to open it with.

I Used forscan, that's the file type it saved as. I'll have a look when I'm home whether I can save it as a different file type.

 

[valdamere]

What do you log with? .fsl is a CAD file I think. Not sure what to open it with.

resaved it as csv, should be working now, thaks.

 

[Mega ST]

How are you logging? Looks like you're going thru the gears. Try logging a 3rd gear pull from 2500rpm to fuel cut and make sure your getting timing per cylinder and tip desired and actual. AFR and FRP actual. I'm not a log expert, but if something is leaking massive boost it should be obvious with boost request vs actual.

 

[valdamere]

How are you logging? Looks like you're going thru the gears. Try logging a 3rd gear pull from 2500rpm to fuel cut and make sure your getting timing per cylinder and tip desired and actual. AFR and FRP actual. I'm not a log expert, but if something is leaking massive boost it should be obvious with boost request vs actual.

alright, i'll try to get that tonight, im not 100% on which setting are which in forscan so there will be a few extra reading that arent needed, i'm pretty sure i got everything but timing per cylinder, i dont know what thats called in the software. thanks for the info/help

 

[thecman02]

I see the the MAF(g/s) seems to be reading pretty low which makes sense about you saying the car feels slow. A random data point I took around 5800rpm floored with is only 140g/s (~18lb/m) or roughly 200bhp for you international folk. MAP sensor is showing 168kpa, and after we remove atmospheric pressure from that value that leaves you at 68kpa or (10psi) for us Americans. Also looks like it hits 7psi, or waste gate pressure and slowly boost creeps up to the 10psi I stated. Seems in my mind that the boost solenoid isn't doing anything. Whether that's because the preload isn't adjusted right, or the boost solenoid isn't connected or functioning is a different story. Its rough going through the log not having the normal data parameters like a Cobb would show. I don't see any values for target boost, or waste gate data. Also don't know if the raw data from forscan also has a max value on these cars of ~84%, but it isn't seeing you floor it, maybe you aren't ever trying to floor it.

 

[valdamere]

I see the the MAF(g/s) seems to be reading pretty low which makes sense about you saying the car feels slow. A random data point I took around 5800rpm floored with is only 140g/s (~18lb/m) or roughly 200bhp for you international folk. MAP sensor is showing 168kpa, and after we remove atmospheric pressure from that value that leaves you at 68kpa or (10psi) for us Americans. Also looks like it hits 7psi, or waste gate pressure and slowly boost creeps up to the 10psi I stated. Seems in my mind that the boost solenoid isn't doing anything. Whether that's because the preload isn't adjusted right, or the boost solenoid isn't connected or functioning is a different story. Its rough going through the log not having the normal data parameters like a Cobb would show. I don't see any values for target boost, or waste gate data. Also don't know if the raw data from forscan also has a max value on these cars of ~84%, but it isn't seeing you floor it, maybe you aren't ever trying to floor it.

Ive taken a logs more logs of pulls in 3rd with most of the data plus a bit extra that mega ST asked about, some of that might be helpful, im currently trying to learn from youtube how to read this info enough to get anything useful from it i'll try to have a look at the boost solenoid, maybe its not connected right, hopefully its just a plug but i would assume it would show a fault if it was. it looks like one from amazon isnt too expensive so i might grab one and swap it out to see if theres a difference, at least i can return it if it doesnt change anything.

the data says its reading that the pedal is at 99% but the throttle is maxing at 84% so its reading that im flooring it, i'll keep trying to see if i can figureout anything, thanks for the info

 

[valdamere]

Well I swapped out the boost solenoid, doesn't seem to have done anything, no faults besides the fault for the mirror heaters popping up again.

 

[thecman02]

I really am thinking if you have an adjustable wastegate it isn't preloaded correctly. I'm assuming you got the matching collings performance wastegate or it came on the collins performance version of the turbo technics s270? I would ask them what the preload measurement should be. Your wastegate duty cycle hits 95% during a point 2750-3500rpm when you should be getting a massive jump in boost and torque and it just isn't coming in.

Edit* looked up some stuff about the actuator.... only found something about the focus, but it should be the same for Fiesta. https://collinsperformance.com/wp-c...225-CP-Actuator-Installation-Instructions.pdf
I would definitely get the gospel from Collins. If you verify from them it should be 2mm and your car is set at 2mm then try a half a turn on the wastegate and see if it nets you any better boost.

Numerous people also don't plumb the boost solenoid correctly. https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/s280-install-vacuum-line-confusion.30254/page-2

 

[valdamere]

I really am thinking if you have an adjustable wastegate it isn't preloaded correctly. I'm assuming you got the matching collings performance wastegate or it came on the collins performance version of the turbo technics s270? I would ask them what the preload measurement should be. Your wastegate duty cycle hits 95% during a point 2750-3500rpm when you should be getting a massive jump in boost and torque and it just isn't coming in.

Edit* looked up some stuff about the actuator.... only found something about the focus, but it should be the same for Fiesta. https://collinsperformance.com/wp-c...225-CP-Actuator-Installation-Instructions.pdf
I would definitely get the gospel from Collins. If you verify from them it should be 2mm and your car is set at 2mm then try a half a turn on the wastegate and see if it nets you any better boost.

Numerous people also don't plumb the boost solenoid correctly. https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/s280-install-vacuum-line-confusion.30254/page-2

great, at least that confirms its the boost not coming I'll have a look at the solenoid routing today, one thing i did notice was that the tubing going from the internal wastegate to the boost solenoid was very loose, like it would fall off if i gave it a tug. it may not be sealed completely ive got another bit of hose im gonna swap it out with when i look at the routing but if that tube wasnt sealed between the wastegate and the solenoid could that potentially cause the issue?
The internal wastegate to solenoid hose in this pic.

Looking at the collins page, i think thats beyond what im confident doing, once i check out the solenoid hoses i'll chat with collins and get some info if it doesnt make a difference.

 

[valdamere]

Well problems solved, the boost solenoid was around the wrong way, flipped it and its making boost now, got about 50m down the road and popped an intercooler hose off lmao. Cleaned the pipe/intercooler pipe and it seems to be holding up well. gotta run the scan tool and make sure the numbers look right but it sure feels waaaay faster than before. @Mega ST @thecman02 thanks for your help