Weighed fiesta today (funny story)

[Stkid93]

Went to a truck stop to weigh my fist today. It’s a base model with no sunroof and no recaros . Only option was the black painted wheels.

Went into the scale and was looking around for the results. Figured out I had to push the button. So I pushed it and she asked if I was first time or re weigh I said first time and she said okay and started getting the results.

She goes …. Is this a car? And I was like yea…. Hoping she would be cool about it. And she was like alright I gotchu sweetie. lol!

Went inside and they were all laughing point at the video of me on the giant scale in my tiny little car.

Results were done with a full tank of gas and instead of the spare tire I had an extra stock rim with extra stock tire. Exactly 2720. Without the added weight of the bigger stock rim and some extras I have in the hatch probably would have been right around 2700.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Was that with the jack and FULL interior (i.e.; nothing removed)??

 

[Stkid93]

Absolutely nothing was removed except for the spare tire which was replaced with a heavier regular tire. I always like to have a regular wheel and tire as a spare instead of a donut. I hate donuts.

There was a whoosh v3 intercooler which may be 5-10 lbs heavier than the stock one.

Wheels and everything were still stock. And there was about 20 or so lbs of stuff in the hatch. With a full tank of gas it’s as close as I could get to completely stock weight. I gusss I could have taken the stuff out of the hatch ur that’s okay it’s close enough.

So in reality I was probably looking at an extra 10 lbs for the tire change. 5-10 extra lbs for the larger intercooler. And 20 lbs of misc stuff.

 

[M-Sport fan]

I must be well under 2600 lbs. right now, since my car is almost gutted from the front seats back (rear door cards, and plastic side shelf and hatch trim is all that is back there currently), with 16x8 Dekagrams, and with the spare and jack removed (while I try to hunt down the dreaded spare well pooling leak).

 

[Stkid93]

Now I just gotta drool over the fact that the Europe versions are closer to 2500 lbs. and they got the st200 with the improved gearing. But, they also use a different tuning strategy which means no accessport for them. Which also means no dizzy, strat, tune plus, etc. I don’t know if it’s related to the tuners they use but I have noticed that Europe fists make significantly less power than we do over here. I have never seen a European stock turbo fist make even close to 300 ft lbs and they even use engine numbers not numbers at the wheels. So the extra power and torque our US tuners make help offset the extra 200 lbs of curb weight.

The us always gets the short end of the stick. But I also have to be grateful they brought the st over here at all. It’s a subcompact, stick shift only, hatchback.

Americans have proven time and time again that we don’t buy hatchbacks, stick shift cars, or small cars. Especially ones as small as the fist. These days everything is about suvs, pick up trucks, and bigger vehicles. That’s simply what the America market wants. You guys seen a car lot recently? Everything is suvs and pick ups. Ford doesn’t even sell cars anymore besides the mustang.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Sadly, and disgustingly, even Stellantis are issuing their "last call" for the Dodge supercars now, so they will all be gone soon, just like the 'Stang, and Camaro.

How much longer can even the worshiped and venerable Vettes last?!?

 

[rallytaff]

EV buyers are getting buyers remorse now. They're not buying them like they used to. Didn't Ford lose $4.5 billion with their EV venture?

 

[Dpro]

EV buyers are getting buyers remorse now. They're not buying them like they used to. Didn't Ford lose $4.5 billion with their EV venture?

Yes they did, and ya Hybrids make more sense than EV’s do Elon Musk sold the World on EV’. The infrastructure for EV’s just is not there .
EV’s are only good for city cars at this point and most every owner has to plug them in to charge at their own home .

 

[Stkid93]

Don’t get me started on evs. I freaking hate how everyone is freaking out about them. Not only is the infrastructure not there.

But Evs are anywhere near as green as people think. Making and disposing of the batteries are terrible for the environment and also require digging up the earth to make them.

Plus the fact that the batteries are way worse than companies claim. I say a video where they drove all the most popular evs to test the claimed mileage and every single one came at least 40 miles short of their claimed range. And those were brand new, if you have ever looked at the battery information on your phone you will notice that after about 6 months. The battery life is reduced by about 10-15%. Meaning even with a full charge, your battery can only get 85% of its original capacity. After a year or so. It can go down to 60-70%. So a car that starts with 300 mile range, realistically can probably only do 250 miles brand new, and after a year or so, the battery will only be able to take 70% charge due to battery degradation, so then ur looking at maybe 175 miles even with a full charge.

And if you aren’t close to a super charger that means you gotta plug it in to your house and charge the thing for half a day. Don’t even want to imagine what that does your energy bill. The battery technology has gotten better but they just aren’t efficient enough for most people to use every day. Especially in the cold, you ever leave your phone in the car during the winter? The battery dies extremely quickly in the cold. Unless you live In a city close to a bunch of chargers and only do very short trips. It’s just not worth it. People that need to commute to work will need the top of the line most long range battery to even make it pheasible.

Then of course there’s the problem where the batteries only last maybe 10 years regardless of mileage. then you’re looking at 10-15 grand to replace the damn thing.

What we should have been doing is putting time and effort into educating people on ethanol and all its positives. Did you know that in Brazil they use e85 almost exclusively? If we wanted to put the effort in, It’s extremely possible for the US to run on mostly e85. Yes, ethanol requires its own infrastructure, and we would need to have more people making the ethanol to keep up. But it’s not hard at all. I’m not saying every car needs to run on e85. But if we sold e30-e50 at the pump. That would be a compromise.

E85 burns 50x cleaner than regular gas, it’s renewable and naturally made without digging up the earth. And the cars run way better on it.

 

[gtx3076]

"The infrastructure isn' there". This is nonsense. Every house has 240V 1Φ. Every commercial property has at lease 208V 3Φ, if not 480V 3Φ. Most services are not maxed out and could easily accommodate at least 1 charger, if not multiple chargers. Every occupied building has electricity, but not every building has underground tanks for fuel. This is a matter of will, the same as how we ran electricity and telephone lines to even the most remote communities, we can have chargers available at every parking lot far easier than we can install a new gas station.

 

[Stkid93]

@gtx3076

Im not talking about small time infrastructure. Yes every house can charge an ev, and every parking lot can have a charger.

I’m talking about the power grid. Let’s assume everyone drove evs tomorrow. What happens when every single person in the United States gets home at 5:30. And they have all these home super chargers And they all plug in their cars at the same time. Putting a tremendous strain on the power grid. Then add in the fact that everyone is watching tv, and running other electric systems.

Or every person in the town/city drove evs and they a bunch of them went to super chargers at the same time. We just aren’t there yet in my opinion.

But I’m also not an electrical engineer. So what do I really know. I’m just thinking out loud

 

[Dialcaliper]

Went to a truck stop to weigh my fist today. It’s a base model with no sunroof and no recaros . Only option was the black painted wheels.

Went into the scale and was looking around for the results. Figured out I had to push the button. So I pushed it and she asked if I was first time or re weigh I said first time and she said okay and started getting the results.

She goes …. Is this a car? And I was like yea…. Hoping she would be cool about it. And she was like alright I gotchu sweetie. lol!

Went inside and they were all laughing point at the video of me on the giant scale in my tiny little car.

Results were done with a full tank of gas and instead of the spare tire I had an extra stock rim with extra stock tire. Exactly 2720. Without the added weight of the bigger stock rim and some extras I have in the hatch probably would have been right around 2700.

Interesting. For comparison, my 2016 with both recaros and sunroof, plus a few braces and upgrades (Mountune intercooler and radiator, 16” Dekagrams) weighed in right at 2800 lb. I think I also had the 15” alloy compact spare tire in the back instead of the “full size” one. Fuel somewhere >3/4 tank

 

[Dpro]

"The infrastructure isn' there". This is nonsense. Every house has 240V 1Φ. Every commercial property has at lease 208V 3Φ, if not 480V 3Φ. Most services are not maxed out and could easily accommodate at least 1 charger, if not multiple chargers. Every occupied building has electricity, but not every building has underground tanks for fuel. This is a matter of will, the same as how we ran electricity and telephone lines to even the most remote communities, we can have chargers available at every parking lot far easier than we can install a new gas station.

Ok but I do not see that happening and honestly it takes to long to charge currently for any kind of practical long distance travel. Ok wait I drove to SF but I can’t go farther till I plug in and charge overnight . Ya no 375 miles and need to recharge is really not practical for any kind of serious road trip IMO. Though let’s get in to what it takes to make E cars and the batteries it’s not clean tech at all in fact the carbon footprint is damn near equal to drive an ICE engine for a number of years. Sorry but it’s BS it’s not the panacea it’s made out to be. Hybrids make ten times more sense do not take the carbon footprint to make like a full EV and are affordable . Ya that’s the other problem with EV’s they are expensive and the only reason people buy them are government subsidies . I am not against new cleaner tech I am against short sighted so called cleaner tech which exactly what EV’s are!

Don’t like my opinion based on scientific knowledge well then we can agree to disagree . Done here nothing more to sa
y.

 

[gtx3076]

@gtx3076

Im not talking about small time infrastructure. Yes every house can charge an ev, and every parking lot can have a charger.

I’m talking about the power grid. Let’s assume everyone drove evs tomorrow. What happens when every single person in the United States gets home at 5:30. And they have all these home super chargers And they all plug in their cars at the same time. Putting a tremendous strain on the power grid. Then add in the fact that everyone is watching tv, and running other electric systems.

Or every person in the town/city drove evs and they a bunch of them went to super chargers at the same time. We just aren’t there yet in my opinion.

But I’m also not an electrical engineer. So what do I really know. I’m just thinking out loud

When they introduced the automobile was the country awash with gas stations? Have you considered what an enormous strain the old style incandescent lamps in every house put on the power grid when everyone went home and turned their lights on, or ran their A/C, electric dryer, or stove, or TV AT THE SAME TIME??

 

[gtx3076]

Ok but I do not see that happening and honestly it takes to long to charge currently for any kind of practical long distance travel. Ok wait I drove to SF but I can’t go farther till I plug in and charge overnight . Ya no 375 miles and need to recharge is really not practical for any kind of serious road trip IMO. Though let’s get in to what it takes to make E cars and the batteries it’s not clean tech at all in fact the carbon footprint is damn near equal to drive an ICE engine for a number of years. Sorry but it’s BS it’s not the panacea it’s made out to be. Hybrids make ten times more sense do not take the carbon footprint to make like a full EV and are affordable . Ya that’s the other problem with EV’s they are expensive and the only reason people buy them are government subsidies . I am not against new cleaner tech I am against short sighted so called cleaner tech which exactly what EV’s are!

Don’t like my opinion based on scientific knowledge well then we can agree to disagree . Done here nothing more to sa
y.

What I’m sick of is fake pearl clutching from luddites that hinge their identity on hating new technology. The ICE has only gotten more efficient and more powerful over the decades. Imagine if horse owners didn’t want the ICE “forced down their throats” because of all the issues the first cars had. New tech always goes through a process of introduction and improvement, sometimes it gets abandoned entirely for something else, it’s just part of progress.

The “greenest” thing we could do would be to design our cities and infrastructure around needing cars less in favor of public transport and walking/biking but people are just as paranoid about that as they are electric cars.

 

[Stkid93]

Maybe you’re right.

I think I’m probably letting my distain for electric cars affect my judgment. I think they are bad for the car community because we are heading towards gas cars being illegal.

A lot of countries are trying to make the sale of gasoline cars illegal by 2030. Not to mention electric cars means the death of engine noise and stick shift.

Everyone will be driving around in silent boring cars that drive themselves. Unless you get one of those dumb dodge cars that make fake engine noise that sounds like a cougar rawrin.

 

[Dpro]

What I’m sick of is fake pearl clutching from luddites that hinge their identity on hating new technology. The ICE has only gotten more efficient and more powerful over the decades. Imagine if horse owners didn’t want the ICE “forced down their throats” because of all the issues the first cars had. New tech always goes through a process of introduction and improvement, sometimes it gets abandoned entirely for something else, it’s just part of progress.

The “greenest” thing we could do would be to design our cities and infrastructure around needing cars less in favor of public transport and walking/biking but people are just as paranoid about that as they are electric cars.

Wow you so missed my point . and using the term Luddite in a response to my post is completlely misunderstanding my point.

Luddites resisted cost saving technology . I do not resist cost saving tech. I do resist tech that is not cost saving but more expensive .

Currently EV’s are not cost saving tech, It costs more to manufacture them , They cost more to purchase than a Hybrid. Oh and guess what most of them fall apart as for the most part they are not well built. if someone builds a cost effective EV that can run long distance and not create a carbon mess to manufacture I say bring it on. No one has instead they are trying to shove it down our throats on an insane timeline.

Teslas are junk from a manufacturing standing . I laugh at people thinking they are buying something luxury when they buy them. Oh and Hertz just dropped their whole Tesla EV rental fleet as it was too costly to maintain and run. 😂

You seem to think I am against a lot of things I am not. Though I do see the forest for the trees and the fact is EV’s don’t work they are a terrible stop gap idea at this point. A hybrid is much more logical step till we get something sorted that does work. This mad rush to convert everyone to EV’s is insane the timeline is insane . The tech is not moving fast enough to fit the timeline.

My point is not to halt but to step back from the currently costly headlong rush into a tech that’s not full developed.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Ok but I do not see that happening and honestly it takes to long to charge currently for any kind of practical long distance travel. Ok wait I drove to SF but I can’t go farther till I plug in and charge overnight . Ya no 375 miles and need to recharge is really not practical for any kind of serious road trip IMO. Though let’s get in to what it takes to make E cars and the batteries it’s not clean tech at all in fact the carbon footprint is damn near equal to drive an ICE engine for a number of years. Sorry but it’s BS it’s not the panacea it’s made out to be. Hybrids make ten times more sense do not take the carbon footprint to make like a full EV and are affordable . Ya that’s the other problem with EV’s they are expensive and the only reason people buy them are government subsidies . I am not against new cleaner tech I am against short sighted so called cleaner tech which exactly what EV’s are!

Don’t like my opinion based on scientific knowledge well then we can agree to disagree . Done here nothing more to sa
y.

While you’re right about a lot of things and I agree with a lot of your points (like Teslas in particular being terrible quality, and electric vehicles being more expensive and resource intensive up-front, if you’re going for the “scientific” angle, some of your arguments about EVs, hybrids vs gas are about 10 years out-of-date.

While nobody has a perfect handle on lifecycle resource and “carbon footprint”, there are at least some researchers out there attempting to collect hard data and translate it into something that “the masses” can understand. While no one is impartial and there are a lot of broad assumptions they use, these guys (ACEEE) are at least putting the legwork in:

https://greenercars.org/greenercars-ratings/

They attempt to account for both upstream (resources like oil/gasoline, battery manufacturing, grid electricity generation, etc) and downstream (material scrap, metal and battery disposal, etc) in addition to the “direct” effects like tailpipe emissions and typical wear/tear/repairs.

Some observations for the current years snapshot of new cars being sold for model years 2017-2024 are quite interesting.

- Prius Hybrid tops the list.
- Hot on its heels are a number of new EVs
- Top of the list is largely mixed EVs and Hybrids with no clear winner.
- A little down the list, but not too far are some traditional gas powered cars

A couple conclusions looking at the list that are interesting.

- While they have an edge and are improving year by year, far and away the biggest factors in resource intensity and carbon footprint is not EV vs Hybrid vs Gas

- The biggest factor is vehicle SIZE. The best scores, not surprisingly, go to compact and midsize cars and crossover SUVs. aka “smaller cars”. Big freaking trucks and SUVs, regardless of are terrible, even many of the new EVs and hybrids. Also big powerful sports/muscle/exotic cars. Basically all the traditional “gas guzzlers”. In the new world, nothing is actually new! The F150 Lightning, Rivian and Cybertruck are slightly, but barely better than their gas powered counterparts, and pretty much worse than every compact and midsize car/crossover

- The second biggest factor is manufacturer. Some are clearly doing better (Toyota, Honda, Kia, Hyundai) and some are doing on average worse, regardless of powertrain

In other words, EVs and Hybrids represent an improvement thats a new chapter the same old trend of “more fuel/energy efficient”, they aren’t somehow magic, and don’t somehow alleviate the impact of large vehicles and conspicuous consumption. Contrary to what advertising would have you believe.

 

[Dpro]

While you’re right about a lot of things and I agree with a lot of your points (like Teslas in particular being terrible quality, and electric vehicles being more expensive and resource intensive up-front, if you’re going for the “scientific” angle, some of your arguments about EVs, hybrids vs gas are about 10 years out-of-date.

While nobody has a perfect handle on lifecycle resource and “carbon footprint”, there are at least some researchers out there attempting to collect hard data and translate it into something that “the masses” can understand. While no one is impartial and there are a lot of broad assumptions they use, these guys (ACEEE) are at least putting the legwork in:

https://greenercars.org/greenercars-ratings/

They attempt to account for both upstream (resources like oil/gasoline, battery manufacturing, grid electricity generation, etc) and downstream (material scrap, metal and battery disposal, etc) in addition to the “direct” effects like tailpipe emissions and typical wear/tear/repairs.

Some observations for the current years snapshot of new cars being sold for model years 2017-2024 are quite interesting.

- Prius Hybrid tops the list.
- Hot on its heels are a number of new EVs
- Top of the list is largely mixed EVs and Hybrids with no clear winner.
- A little down the list, but not too far are some traditional gas powered cars

A couple conclusions looking at the list that are interesting.

- While they have an edge and are improving year by year, far and away the biggest factors in resource intensity and carbon footprint is not EV vs Hybrid vs Gas

- The biggest factor is vehicle SIZE. The best scores, not surprisingly, go to compact and midsize cars and crossover SUVs. aka “smaller cars”. Big freaking trucks and SUVs, regardless of are terrible, even many of the new EVs and hybrids. Also big powerful sports/muscle/exotic cars. Basically all the traditional “gas guzzlers”. In the new world, nothing is actually new! The F150 Lightning, Rivian and Cybertruck are slightly, but barely better than their gas powered counterparts, and pretty much worse than every compact and midsize car/crossover

- The second biggest factor is manufacturer. Some are clearly doing better (Toyota, Honda, Kia, Hyundai) and some are doing on average worse, regardless of powertrain

In other words, EVs and Hybrids represent an improvement thats a new chapter the same old trend of “more fuel/energy efficient”, they aren’t somehow magic, and don’t somehow alleviate the impact of large vehicles and conspicuous consumption. Contrary to what advertising would have you believe.

Excuse me stop lumping EV’s and Hybrids together.They are completely different and fact is I an all for Hubrids .EV’s are more expensive to purchase and more expensive to make .Stop putting words in my mouth and trying to pigeonhole me into something I did not say. The Carbon footprint o build a Hybrid is much less than. a EV.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Excuse me stop lumping EV’s and Hybrids together.They are completely different and fact is I an all for Hubrids .EV’s are more expensive to purchase and more expensive to make .Stop putting words in my mouth and trying to pigeonhole me into something I did not say. The Carbon footprint o build a Hybrid is much less than. a EV.

I am agreeing with you that when it comes to upfront $$$, EVs are more expensive. Sorry if that got lost in the word vomit.

I also agree that EVs and Hybrids are separate “categories”, but both do indeed represent an incremental improvement over internal combustion alone.

On the last point is where I disagree - carbon footprint and environmental impact. If you take the time to examine the link I posted to a report that is literally a list of quantified carbon+environmental footprint of new vehicles using rigorous scientific criteria far more thorough than we armchair scientists are able to muster at the moment. Insert disclaimer about no source of information being completely unbiased or impartial.

TL;DR - The conclusion is Prius on top with lowest footprint followed by 6 new compact/midsize EVs next on the list. Next is a slew of both EVs and Hybrids, with no clear winner, no clear generalization of “EV vs Hybrid”.

Slightly back on the list, but still in the running are some very decent gas powered cars that are actually competitive in carbon footprint with some EVs and Hybrids.

And towards the end of the list, we have large trucks and SUVs. Including fancy new EV trucks.

Not news: Big trucks and SUVs and the usual “gas guzzlers” still have the biggest footprint, regardless of Gas/EV/Hybrid.

And vehicle size matters far more than powertrain.