fiesta vs focus st (while taking your personal requirements out of the equation)

[ogminlo]

I tried both, bought the Fiesta. No regrets. I am looking to swap in those Focus Recaros though. Good thing they are a direct bolt-in from the salvage yard.

 

[Stkid93]

Wait the focus recaros are direct bolt in ? I always thought there was some modifications needed to make them fit? Something about needing to modify the seat rails? And also I assume there is some trickery needed to get the heated seats and power seats to work with the fiesta ecu?

I’m totally guessing on the heated seats and power functions as I’ve never swapped stock seats from 1 car model into a different one. But I was pretty sure the rails or something had to be modified

 

[SteveS]

Wait the focus recaros are direct bolt in ? I always thought there was some modifications needed to make them fit? Something about needing to modify the seat rails? And also I assume there is some trickery needed to get the heated seats and power seats to work with the fiesta ecu?

I’m totally guessing on the heated seats and power functions as I’ve never swapped stock seats from 1 car model into a different one. But I was pretty sure the rails or something had to be modified

https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/finished-fost-2-recaro-swap.26764/
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/installing-focus-st3-full-leather-recaros-in-fiesta-st.10369/
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threa...s-to-swap-in-has-this-been-done-before.17146/
https://www.fiestastforum.com/threads/focus-st3-seats-in-fiesta-possible.16799/

 

[ogminlo]

Wait the focus recaros are direct bolt in ? I always thought there was some modifications needed to make them fit? Something about needing to modify the seat rails? And also I assume there is some trickery needed to get the heated seats and power seats to work with the fiesta ecu?

I’m totally guessing on the heated seats and power functions as I’ve never swapped stock seats from 1 car model into a different one. But I was pretty sure the rails or something had to be modified

It’s a long thread, but the one I linked covers the process. Loads of photos of the finished product too. The 2013-14 (only those years!) Focus ST3 trim Recaro seats share the same seat base frame as the Fiesta. This means you can bolt the Focus Recaro seat back to the Fiesta base and swap the Focus Recaro seat cushion over to the Fiesta base frame. The Fiesta side bolster airbags fit in the cavity of the Focus bolsters. The heat does not transfer, but you can put the Fiesta heat pad under the Focus seat cover if you want. Or leave it out. These Focus ST3 seats can be had at salvage yards for under $200 if you look around. Just don’t shop ones that have to ship because the airbags make them hazardous materials and triple the price. Buy local. They fit in a Fiesta back seat with the rears folded down.

 

[Zormecteon]

^^^HOW did you afford a C8, and it's insurance, on a 'fixed income'?!?

(Taken out of 'very good' investments, I am guessing? )

Check PM..

My fixed income covers my expenses with a bit left over.

 

[fk8fist]

I'll say, when I was a Ford tech for almost 10 years, I never once did a FiST engine or anything outside of maintenance. FoST got multiple engines and bcm's before 100k miles. I'd never own one.

 

[LilPartyBox]

I'll say, when I was a Ford tech for almost 10 years, I never once did a FiST engine or anything outside of maintenance. FoST got multiple engines and bcm's before 100k miles. I'd never own one.

Funny you mention that. Part of why I traded the FoST was cuz the tranny (or something) started whining and highway speeds. The FiST has oddly enough been SOLID. Are we sure this lil bean of ours is a Fix Or Repair Daily? Maybe cuz it's a UK Ford lol

 

[TyphoonFiST]

Back in 2016, the brand new 2016 FoST that the sales person had me test drive (against my wishes) did perceptions no favors.
It was one they had sitting around too long; flat spotted tires with a missing loping idle.
It seemed very heavy, lethargic.



Ignorant of the World Rally connection, my thoughts as well.
Driver seat on the FiST is quite fine. The only thing I'd tweak is the passenger front seat.
I've been able to haul whatever I needed to with the FiST including eight wheels with one set of mounted tires... don't need fatter, heavier, sloppier.
FiST stops like, BOOM. Get some heavier, slightly wider, much stickier tires and sprints okay.
The stability control and torque vectoring on stock suspension handles the car well for cornering though, maybe robs power for exits. (just have to compensate with more throttle)

FoST... well... just looks a fair bit W I D E ... for my taste. But meh, guess it's okay.

View attachment 60597

Those pants are holding up so much. When they come off its like Cheese Curds in a a pair of panty hose it just Droops.

 

[fk8fist]

Funny you mention that. Part of why I traded the FoST was cuz the tranny (or something) started whining and highway speeds. The FiST has oddly enough been SOLID. Are we sure this lil bean of ours is a Fix Or Repair Daily? Maybe cuz it's a UK Ford lol

People don’t realize they share the same engine/design as the Volvo 1.6 engine. They are def more European than they are domestic by far.

 

[Stkid93]

@fk8fist

Can you tell us More about the focus’ 2 liter vs our 1.6?

Obviously the 2 liter and 2.3 liter are both torque monsters. I also believe the 2 liter is the only engine of the 3 to have a closed deck design. So I always figured the 2.0 was far better especially for bigger power. Then I had a friend who had a focus st with just an exhaust and Cobb tune and his engine blew at under 100k miles. He had been having engine and low compression issues for a couple months before it blew. He was in the auto industry so I’m pretty confident to say he changed his oil on time. But I don’t know for sure. Once he told me his engine lost compression at 70k miles I started looking more into it. But I haven’t found enough info to make an informed decision on which motor is better. I just know the focus st forum is littered with blown engine threads. And we are not. The only blown motor threads I’ve seen for us are from people who went to an s280 and went for big power.

I believe the 2.3 is actually pretty darn reliable minus the head gasket problem that was the factories fault because they put the head gasket from the mustang on the focus rs. But that has been resolved for a couple years now.

 

[fk8fist]

@fk8fist

Can you tell us More about the focus’ 2 liter vs our 1.6?

Obviously the 2 liter and 2.3 liter are both torque monsters. I also believe the 2 liter is the only engine of the 3 to have a closed deck design. So I always figured the 2.0 was far better especially for bigger power. Then I had a friend who had a focus st with just an exhaust and Cobb tune and his engine blew at under 100k miles. He had been having engine and low compression issues for a couple months before it blew. He was in the auto industry so I’m pretty confident to say he changed his oil on time. But I don’t know for sure. Once he told me his engine lost compression at 70k miles I started looking more into it. But I haven’t found enough info to make an informed decision on which motor is better. I just know the focus st forum is littered with blown engine threads. And we are not. The only blown motor threads I’ve seen for us are from people who went to an s280 and went for big power.

I believe the 2.3 is actually pretty darn reliable minus the head gasket problem that was the factories fault because they put the head gasket from the mustang on the focus rs. But that has been resolved for a couple years now.

The Focus ST/RS engine are “the same”, just different spec components with the RS having some stronger components and lower compression.
Their downfalls are lspi, on top of the coolant intrusion issues between cylinders 3 and 4. The casting of the blocks has flaws, so if you fall on maintenance, the engines are basically done from there. If intrusion doesn’t kill it, lspi will. It’s what hits first.
They are very bland/boring cars that have no character, and feel very linear. Fiestas are much more raw and more of a drivers car IMO. The worlds fastest Fiesta is faster than the worlds fastest FoST and FoRS from my understanding. I believe in the states too.

 

[Dialcaliper]

The Focus ST/RS engine are “the same”, just different spec components with the RS having some stronger components and lower compression.
Their downfalls are lspi, on top of the coolant intrusion issues between cylinders 3 and 4. The casting of the blocks has flaws, so if you fall on maintenance, the engines are basically done from there. If intrusion doesn’t kill it, lspi will. It’s what hits first.
They are very bland/boring cars that have no character, and feel very linear. Fiestas are much more raw and more of a drivers car IMO. The worlds fastest Fiesta is faster than the worlds fastest FoST and FoRS from my understanding. I believe in the states too.

That’s really interesting and not something I’d have expected. Apparently Mountune managed to break a Focus RS into the 10’s, but it was Herculean effort to get 500hp

I’m wondering what the obstacle is when tons of RWD/AWD older cars easily broke that and even under 10’s like decades ago. Is it limited by direct+aux injection, high compression and complicated drivetrain? Limits of the engine block? Or just not enough crazy people and aftermarket support?

I realize a built 500hp mill is nothing to sneeze at, but you’d kind of expect a max effort tuner to squeeze more than that out of an AWD drag car.

 

[M-Sport fan]

It could be a combo of (at least a majority of them, until somewhat recently) well designed strong IRON blocks, and port injection, along with many more actual engines out there in the ether of tuner-land to even attempt the insane power levels reached by the JDM type tuners.

And yes, as far as the various AWD system strengths go, the 'ground up' AWD systems were much, much stronger than the current trend to adapt a FWD drive train to an afterthought 'add on' drive to the rear wheels as well, type system.

That being said, the fastest of the Evos and WRXes/STIs were converted to FULLY RWD for the quickest drag racing purposes, anyway.

 

[Dpro]

It could be a combo of (at least a majority of them, until somewhat recently) well designed strong IRON blocks, and port injection, along with many more actual engines out there in the ether of tuner-land to even attempt the insane power levels reached by the JDM type tuners.

And yes, as far as the various AWD system strengths go, the 'ground up' AWD systems were much, much stronger than the current trend to adapt a FWD drive train to an afterthought 'add on' drive to the rear wheels as well, type system.

That being said, the fastest of the Evos and WRXes/STIs were converted to FULLY RWD for the quickest drag racing purposes, anyway.

Actually the awd system in the focus RS was a highlight and one of the better ones there are some former FoRS owners that own GR Corolla’s saying it was a bit superior to the Toyota system. Though most all state the FoRS engine indeed was a big downfall of the car beyond the absolutely terrible seating position and suspension. In general most feel overall the Toyota is a much better car and its engine being quite the bright spot as well as its suspension.
Ford has always made great small displacement fours in Europe but they were never taken to the extremes that the JDM and primarily Nissan and Honda 4’s saw. Of course the Japanese car makers where in on the turbocharged deal a hell of a lot earlier than Ford . Nissan and Mitsubishi were doing it starting in the 80’s. Toyota started in the end of the 80’s with Superchargers and then Turbo’s in the 90’s.
Oh and of course Japanese car makers would wind having some great results in drag racing it was the majority of what was availabe to drag race in Japan . Let alone the crazed Honda drag race community that grew up the 90’s in the states.
Oh and ya speaking of AWD drag cars Skyline GTR’s are legend in the world both here and in Japan.

Ford did not really get on the Turbocharged engine bandwagon till the teens though. The 2.3 was pushed from the power it produced at the factory on the Mustang another 25% Not really sure how much if what they even changed internally.
Ya there were some pretty impressive stangs even Ron at Whoosh holding a record for one of the most powerful and quickest before he got into FiST’s. Though he left the goal thing to Wesley with FiST’s.
Though that was not built for longevity and in the end this wholes discussion is more pointless blander propagated by the OP for the sake boredom I feel.
Oh and ya we have now veered off topic due to the discussion of the merits of the engines of said vehicles being taking into the drag racing realm lol why? 😂

 

[Intuit]

.......... the merits of the engines of said vehicles being taking into the drag racing realm lol why? 😂

Yeah, Fiesta is a fun car to sprint to, in/out of corners AND stop on a flea's poop ... not a drag car by any stretch of the imagination. Now, let's talk about why they won't hit 10,000 RPM again... 😂

Everybody loves more power but let's stick to what the Fiesta is, rather than what someONE wants it to be LoL. If anyone wants a huge ass drag car then by all means go buy one. But leave my dear Fiesta alone LoL...

 

[Stkid93]

I have heard the fists “ feel faster” stock for stock than the focus st and rs. I don’t know if they were talking about around a track/turns. Or if they meant it feels faster In a straight line. Personally, I think the fist feels a lot faster than the numbers suggest. But I can’t see it feeling faster than a rs. But I have never driven a focus rs. But supposedly the fists feel faster since They are far lighter, less sound deadening, and more go kart like. So the car feels faster and more agile.

So I guess it makes sense then the fastest fiesta st is faster than the fastest focus st. The biggest problem with the fiesta when it comes to power is the displacement, the cylinder heads poor flow, and the tire size. You can only throw so much turbo at a 1.6 with poor head flow before it starts become a total lag machine that doesn’t spool until 5-6k. From what I understand the 2.0 and 2.3 don’t have that problem as an extra 400-700 cc of displacement makes all the difference.

But then again, a fiesta doesn’t need 500-600 horsepower. Never has, 300-400 horsepower is more than enough for 2700 lbs. look at turbo Miata’s. 2200-2300 lbs and 250 horsepower is more than enough for most people.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Yeah, Fiesta is a fun car to sprint to, in/out of corners AND stop on a flea's poop ... not a drag car by any stretch of the imagination. Now, let's talk about why they won't hit 10,000 RPM again... 😂

Everybody loves more power but let's stick to what the Fiesta is, rather than what someONE wants it to be LoL. If anyone wants a huge ass drag car then by all means go buy one. But leave my dear Fiesta alone LoL...

I mostly agree, and it obviously does 'fit' much better as a good, 'tossable' street and autocross ride, and a very good open track and rally car than a quarter/eighth mile car every day of the week and 20 times that on Sunday.

But, I will not put down anyone's efforts to try and wring as much traction and speed out of them, while chasing record (for the marque) 60 foots, trap speeds and time slips.

Even if that is a futile and frustrating effort without wrinkle walls in front, and skinnies and a solid/no suspension axle in back (and house sized turbo, intercooler, fully/totally built block, built gearbox, and and, and, and and, etc.).

 

[atlantaM3]

I have heard the fists “ feel faster” stock for stock than the focus st and rs. I don’t know if they were talking about around a track/turns. Or if they meant it feels faster In a straight line. Personally, I think the fist feels a lot faster than the numbers suggest. But I can’t see it feeling faster than a rs. But I have never driven a focus rs. But supposedly the fists feel faster since They are far lighter, less sound deadening, and more go kart like. So the car feels faster and more agile.

So I guess it makes sense then the fastest fiesta st is faster than the fastest focus st. The biggest problem with the fiesta when it comes to power is the displacement, the cylinder heads poor flow, and the tire size. You can only throw so much turbo at a 1.6 with poor head flow before it starts become a total lag machine that doesn’t spool until 5-6k. From what I understand the 2.0 and 2.3 don’t have that problem as an extra 400-700 cc of displacement makes all the difference.

But then again, a fiesta doesn’t need 500-600 horsepower. Never has, 300-400 horsepower is more than enough for 2700 lbs. look at turbo Miata’s. 2200-2300 lbs and 250 horsepower is more than enough for most people.

Owning both, the Fiesta does feel more 'lively' due to the weight, and how hard the turbo comes on very low, lots of grunt between 2800 and 5k rpm, and def more tossable at lower speed. Breathless beyond that speed to me.

The RS is very different. It feels slower than it is, especially tuned, due to how full and linear the power band is compared to the Fiesta. Punching it in the Fiesta from a 5 mph roll, feeling like I am beating on it, look down and doing 60-ish. Same in the RS is the wrong side of 90 before I even notice, and dead even from a dig with 5.0's. Add in the extra weight, and the far superior driveline, and it feels like something far more expensive, similar to my prior M3.

I recall driving the FoST, and thinking it was nowhere near either car in stock configuration.

 

[Stkid93]

Personally I prefer a car that feels fast over one that is fast any day. Granted typically cars that are fast also feel fast. But it’s like you said, how the power comes on can make a big difference. If you have a car that hits 90 effortlessly, but it doesn’t feel fast it just sucks the fun out of it. When it comes down to it, most drivers are looking for g force, the feeling of being pushed back into the seat. That is what makes a car fun for me.

Yes, being able to go around a tight turn quickly has its place, and can also be fun. But unless you are an excellent driver and also live near a really nice cayon or long sweeping back roads. how much are you actually able to use the car to its full potential around turns? The reality is most drivers are not good enough/aren’t crazy enough to push track monsters to their full potential. I have gone around turns in the fist and thought, damn… I’m going really fast and the car is barely breaking a sweat, I could probably take this turn 30 mph faster if I had the balls. Back when I was a teenager sure, I was reckless. But these days I don’t take risk like that anymore.

However giving it some gas in 2nd or 3rd and being pushed back into your seat? You can do that pretty much anywhere and have fun. As long as you let out before you are going too fast you aren’t putting yourself in danger. But if you are going around a sharp turn all it takes is 1 thing to go around and you’re spinning around our of control (especially with a rear wheel drive car, I have seen those things spin out just from going straight and hitting the gas too hard and then the tail kicks out)

 

[Intuit]

I mostly agree, and it obviously does 'fit' much better as a good, 'tossable' street and autocross ride, and a very good open track and rally car than a quarter/eighth mile car every day of the week and 20 times that on Sunday.

But, I will not put down anyone's efforts to try and wring as much traction and speed out of them, while chasing record (for the marque) 60 foots, trap speeds and time slips.

Even if that is a futile and frustrating effort without wrinkle walls in front, and skinnies and a solid/no suspension axle in back (and house sized turbo, intercooler, fully/totally built block, built gearbox, and and, and, and and, etc.).

Agreed. Just get tired of "the Fiesta should be BIGGER and FASTER" threads. Gawd Ford must read these and think, "Wow we dodged a bullet when we quit selling these in the States." 🙄 Man some folks just need to get a different car already.