Light Weight Wheels and why, add yours to the list, read the requirements first

[KnockOff]

Tires also differ a bit in how stiff the side wall is. Over the years on my focus running 205 55 15 I have had a few with a softer side wall than I expected.

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[M-Sport fan]

Somehow, I just knew you would chime in on this. LOL

Yes, while I will be the FIRST to agree with Rick (and the rest) that from a PURIST/ABSOLUTIST performance (and physics of course) standpoint, they are 250% correct, that does not require that everyone do these mods, to EVERY FiST out there.
Exclusive track car, YES, of course it is a necessity, but not everyone out there is in love with the aesthetics of his beloved 15" 6ULs like he, and the others so vociferously are.

In fact, if I were building an exclusive track car out of a FiST (which I would not do anyway, since I am a RWD/AWD stalwart for that purpose), it would get custom made 15x8s/8.5s, which are; lighter, stronger, OUR correct PCD, and yes, BETTER LOOKING TO ME than their 'sacred' 6ULs, regardless of the investment involved.

 

[jeffreylyon]

Yes, while I will be the FIRST to agree with Rick (and the rest) that from a PURIST performance/physics standpoint, they are 250% correct, that does not require that everyone do these mods, to EVERY FiST out there.
Exclusive track car, YES, of course it is a necessity, but not everyone out there is in love with the aesthetics of his beloved 15" 6ULs like he, and the others so vociferously are.

In fact, if I were building an exclusive track car out of a FiST (which I would not do anyway, since I am a RWD/AWD stalwart for that purpose), it would get custom made 15x8s/8.5s, which are; lighter, stronger, OUR correct PCD, and yes, BETTER LOOKING TO ME than their 'sacred' 6ULs, regardless of the investment involved.

Huh - I thought that you loved the 6UL's and couldn't wait to do a 4x100 conversion...

 

[Nightcrew13]

huh - i thought that you loved the 6ul's and couldn't wait to do a 4x100 conversion...

lol

 

[M-Sport fan]

Huh - I thought that you loved the 6UL's and couldn't wait to do a 4x100 conversion...

Yup.

 

[RAAMaudio]

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON THE MONEY, GREAT POST

And higher pressure will induce added center of tread wear, lower pressure outer edge wear, one more way to look at tire pressures, use a gauge and keep the wear even as you can for longest life but it might give up advantages in other areas. I always carry a little pump to fix flats as no spare tire and to adjust the air up if I needed after dropping it in low grip situations or raise it up for some kind of event, etc...

Installing stiffer suspension busbings and a harder steering rack bushing will help with feedback and control and of course response as well with the added aspect of a much freer suspension motion that rubber bushings that tighten up at the end of their twist or flex point.

Some worry about ride, my car rides amazingly well with those mods, 225 on 9" wide 15's, 8/7k swift springs on BC's...and sticks like glue with great feedback and control

(Recently I was in an area with really bad roads and realized I would have to soften the springs a bit if I lived there even on 15's as it was pretty harsh in some places)

I know it may seem obvious to many but I still feel it deserves reiterating...another thing which adds to that loose sidewall feel is tire pressure. If the tire pressure is too low while running a high aspect tire, you will increase tire flex.

This is really ultimately a preference thing and a balancing act though...because tire pressure also affects ride, overall grip, mpgs, and handling and these differences are much more noticeable with these high aspect tires than they are with lower profile tires. Just something to consider for those who try higher aspect tires and don't achieve the results they want. Sometimes these results can be easily obtainable by simply adjusting tire pressure.

You'll be amazed at the difference that a few psi can make...

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[LILIKE16ST]

I know 15s aren't for everyone to each their own. There's nothing wrong with 16 or 17s on these cars if that's what you're more into or what you need or want for your particular setup. I was simply stating that in alot of cases I think some people (not all) stray away from getting 15s because they feel taller sidewalls are going to kill turn in and make the car feel sloppy and that's simply not the case with the right setup. I don't think 23.1-23.4 inch tall tires are going to effect things very much vs the stock 23.5 inch height. The 225/45 bfg rival is 23 inches but again 225 are not a have to thing with 8 inch wheels and 205 in many cases work better for turn in response that most think taller sidewalls are going to kill. I don't really worry much about what is written on the sidewall weather it's 195, 205 or 225 as long as the tread width Is a little less than 8 inches wide I will get the handling ride quality, stability and turn in response I want and love out of the car. Different tires will have stiffer or softer sidewalls and the stiffer they are the less important it is to have that slight stretch for response but either way that setup is going to give optimal feedback and response in my eyes.

With that said a nice set of lightweight strong 16x8 wheels with some 18 lbs 205/45/16 continental extreme contact sport tires would be a very very nice setup. According to tire rack I think they have a 23.3 overall diameter which would be very close to stock as well. I like the 16x8 et38 rota slipstreams they are selling on 18 racing the ones without the bean hole slots or whatever. I heard 17 lbs but the 16x7 ones are just over 14 lbs I'm thinking the 8 inch versions couldn't be 3 lbs more. I read somewhere else weight on them is closer to 15 lbs and if that is the case then that would be a very solid setup at around 33 lbs per corner for a 16x8 with nice 205/45 tires that are fairly close to stock overall diameter. That is defiantly something to look into and had this setup (both wheels and tires) been available last fall I may have went that route over my td pro race 1.2 wheels in 15x8. I do love my setup and don't regret going that route. I think I am going with the 205/50/15 continental extreme contact sport tires when replacement time comes they seem very solid and perfect for my needs and only 19 lbs and have very solid reviews. This setup will be around 34.5 lbs per corner and ride better than the 16 inch setup I just mentioned because of slightly taller sidewalls. Either setup is a very solid choice for our stock bolt pattern if one doesn't want to do the 4x100 conversion.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Great post!

IF someone told me that I HAD TO run a 15" wheel on this car starting tomorrow (and I was also allowed to properly lower the car with Swift Spec R springs and a Koni Sport, or Bilstein B8 damper, or a great coil over setup), it would be your current wheels with one of the many (relatively) 225/45-15, stiff sidewall, 200 tread wear donuts out there, on them.

If I wanted to go really crazy (even for street use), I would go with full tread depth 225/45-15 RA-1s, which have even stiffer yet sidewalls.

BTW; I DID put a 7.7" tread width tire on an 8" wide wheel, so I did follow that formula at least, even though I am guilty of using 17s which weigh 'sinfully' too much for so many on here. LOL

 

[LILIKE16ST]

^^^Great post!

IF someone told me that I HAD TO run a 15" wheel on this car starting tomorrow (and I was also allowed to properly lower the car with Swift Spec R springs and a Koni Sport, or Bilstein B8 damper, or a great coil over setup), it would be your current wheels with one of the many (relatively) 225/45-15, stiff sidewall, 200 tread wear donuts out there, on them.

If I wanted to go really crazy (even for street use), I would go with full tread depth 225/45-15 RA-1s, which have even stiffer yet sidewalls.

BTW; I DID put a 7.7" tread width tire on an 8" wide wheel, so I did follow that formula at least, even though I am guilty of using 17s which weigh 'sinfully' too much for so many on here. LOL

Or better yet I'd like to run those 225/50/15 r888 (I think it is?) If I wasn't concerned with tread life or whatever. I would love 225/50 wish they made more

 

[M-Sport fan]

Or better yet I'd like to run those 225/50/15 r888 (I think it is?) If I wasn't concerned with tread life or whatever. I would love 225/50 wish they made more

Yes, I also like that tire A LOT (as well as their R888R), but, neither of those are nearly as 'streetable' in an area which is not a southwestern desert climate (IF you can call ANY 100 tread wear tire 'streetable' at all ), due to their extremely UN-friendly in standing water tread patterns.
Whereas many road racers/open trackers use the RA-1s at full depth as a wet/rain tire as a less costly alternative to the Hoosier DOT WETS, or Kumho rain tires, and IF those are not made in the sizes they need.

Also; yes, you can bet that those 100 tread wear, track oriented, 225/50-15s have stiff enough sidewalls that you will not sense ANY 'mushiness' from their sidewall height, especially on an 8" wide wheel.

 

[RAAMaudio]

I have owned many sets of R888 tires and have driven them a bit on the street, for the ultimate summer tire they might be the one if I went to 100 wear rating but the RA1 in full depth would be far better, as mentioned, in the rain so overall a bit better choice. Since I happened to run shaved and heat cycled ones for track tires on this car I considered running new full depth on the street then using them up on track once well worn.

When I picked the 225 Rival S it was well proven to need a 9" wide wheel to be at its best and it was the only 225 15 I could get that was street legal(RA1 and R888 are not technically legal if I recall correctly) , nothing else available in the US. I wanted 225 and I want the challenge of making them fit under the car on 9" wide wheels. Having put quite a few miles on them including standing water in a monsoon rain storm where they were a bit tricky even at full depth. I would gladly give the new 1.5 version a try on 8" wide wheels though would not run them since my car is already running 9's which I still have 10 wheels in that size.

In the end, any really good setup can include 205 or 225 wide tires(actual specs and use absolutely needs to taken into consideration) on a 15x8 will be damn fast and responsive, the gain in adding an inch to the width is not going to make a real difference unless going all out which means faster than one should drive a well sorted out quick car on public roads.

RA1, R888, sure they would be faster than what I now run as I know from using them but on the street the Rival S is already faster than I can safely use so a stickier tire is mostly pointless.

-------------

I much prefer the style of the bit heavier Helix wheels I run in 15x9 over the lower weight 6UL in 15x8 or even their 9" wheel. If I went nuts and all the way to the 6ul 15x11 that might be a different story

-------------

With the advent of low cost high strength flow formed wheels available(sadly most if not all in 4x100) and the number of race cars running such type of wheels very successfully I not even look into far more costly custom wheels.

I like to have at least one spare wheel per size, preferably 2 and like running the same wheels on the street and track when I can thus I end up "needing" at least 10 wheels but normally have 14 to 18 wheels in the same size. In order to limit the space and weight I ended up with 10 wheels with 4 summer tires and 6 track tires(need to rotate them often and not loose expensive track time so much have at least 2 spares) and then a set of wheels for the AS tires which were not wide enough for 9's so had to go to 8's and the 6UL was absolutely the best wheel in that size for the money and 11.4 lbs! The Helix is in the 12.5 lb range and would of been used but not made in the proper offset, I had to rebuild my front BBK mounts at considerable effort and cost to fit the 6ul as well.

I have ran VERY expensive custom wheels on numerous vehicles and simply can no longer recommend them for any application that one can find flow formed wheels there are better ways to spend the money on making the car faster so unless those are already done, in the budget, etc....build from a whole car concept, that is what I always do.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Thank you Rick for those clarifications, and minor concessions above, and, as always, you are 250% correct.

But also again, NOT everyone is YOU, has your same exact 'tastes' as far as aesthetics go (or can justify them in the name of purist 'function' for a car they must look at every day), nor needs to be at optimal/ultimate, and absolute maximal performance levels 100% of the time, whether on the street OR on the track.
For those that must (be at maximal 150% of the time), your advice IS 'gospel' as they say.

(and I would STILL choose custom forged wheels, I actually like the 'looks' of, over the much deified 6ULs every, and ANY day of the century, if those were my only choices LOL)

 

[WhiteST]

I think we've figured out all our wheel options at this point. Sadly, we're stuck with big $$ wheels or Auto Zone wheels. That being said, I still love my 6UL's. To each their own, but I still haven't found anything better looking in person. I've seen all the wheel threads and can't find a single attractive wheel. In my opinion 17's just look oversized for our cars, almost cartoonish. The only thing for sure is that widdddddder is better. Our car with a 9" or 10" wheel makes it look like a serious performance car. The conversion is worth it just by the amount of tires that are available.

 

[neeqness]

You don't have to want optimum to appreciate Ricks input. It does not seem like he is expecting everyone to do what he does at all.

I am using 15" wheels but they are far from optimum. Focal F05 are about 14-15 lbs each. Not optimum but they still meet my needs. Not the best looking wheels but I'm happy with them. Sometimes budget is the higher priority.

If it had not been for people like Rick (and many others) chiming in here though I would have missed out...his input is much appreciated if not for anything but to help make a more informed decision on the upgrades that we choose to implement...and I, for one, am grateful for it.


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[HardBoiledEgg]

I like the car on 16s vs 15s but more tires are made in the 15s then 16s.

 

[Truth in Ruin]

I have owned many sets of R888 tires and have driven them a bit on the street, for the ultimate summer tire they might be the one if I went to 100 wear rating but the RA1 in full depth would be far better, as mentioned, in the rain so overall a bit better choice. Since I happened to run shaved and heat cycled ones for track tires on this car I considered running new full depth on the street then using them up on track once well worn.

When I picked the 225 Rival S it was well proven to need a 9" wide wheel to be at its best and it was the only 225 15 I could get that was street legal(RA1 and R888 are not technically legal if I recall correctly) , nothing else available in the US. I wanted 225 and I want the challenge of making them fit under the car on 9" wide wheels. Having put quite a few miles on them including standing water in a monsoon rain storm where they were a bit tricky even at full depth. I would gladly give the new 1.5 version a try on 8" wide wheels though would not run them since my car is already running 9's which I still have 10 wheels in that size.

In the end, any really good setup can include 205 or 225 wide tires(actual specs and use absolutely needs to taken into consideration) on a 15x8 will be damn fast and responsive, the gain in adding an inch to the width is not going to make a real difference unless going all out which means faster than one should drive a well sorted out quick car on public roads.

RA1, R888, sure they would be faster than what I now run as I know from using them but on the street the Rival S is already faster than I can safely use so a stickier tire is mostly pointless.

-------------

I much prefer the style of the bit heavier Helix wheels I run in 15x9 over the lower weight 6UL in 15x8 or even their 9" wheel. If I went nuts and all the way to the 6ul 15x11 that might be a different story

-------------

With the advent of low cost high strength flow formed wheels available(sadly most if not all in 4x100) and the number of race cars running such type of wheels very successfully I not even look into far more costly custom wheels.

I like to have at least one spare wheel per size, preferably 2 and like running the same wheels on the street and track when I can thus I end up "needing" at least 10 wheels but normally have 14 to 18 wheels in the same size. In order to limit the space and weight I ended up with 10 wheels with 4 summer tires and 6 track tires(need to rotate them often and not loose expensive track time so much have at least 2 spares) and then a set of wheels for the AS tires which were not wide enough for 9's so had to go to 8's and the 6UL was absolutely the best wheel in that size for the money and 11.4 lbs! The Helix is in the 12.5 lb range and would of been used but not made in the proper offset, I had to rebuild my front BBK mounts at considerable effort and cost to fit the 6ul as well.

I have ran VERY expensive custom wheels on numerous vehicles and simply can no longer recommend them for any application that one can find flow formed wheels there are better ways to spend the money on making the car faster so unless those are already done, in the budget, etc....build from a whole car concept, that is what I always do.

Thank you for being on this forum.

 

[M-Sport fan]

The only thing for sure is that widdddddder is better. Our car with a 9" or 10" wheel makes it look like a serious performance car.

ABSOLUTELY, but NOT with a 205, or 215 (EVEN 'wide'/widest actual tread width measure ones) stancer stretched over them, like some do, and with those wider proper tires on them, it is impossible to mount them on these cars without flares/major bodywork, unless you perform, and go through the R&D and fabrication which Rick has done to get them UNDER the factory fenders/wheel wells.

 

[RAAMaudio]

YES, we do agree on some things, skinny tires on really wide wheels, super stretch is not a performance mod but might "look fast" to some that are inclined to such styling ideas gone wrong

I run the 205/50/15 NeoGen on the 15x8 6UL and it makes for a very nice looking setup, just a bit of stretch as the NeoGen is a pretty wide 205 and the grip is damn impressive for an AS tire though certainly not as sticky as the Rival S or other near race tire sticky tires. I did hit a bit of snow and ice on them though avoid such weather as much as I can as do not like to get my car dirty underneath or take chances crashing it. I had to go to CA a couple of times at the end of the big winter we had in the Sierra's and they did well enough there but I would run dedicated snow tires if I had to go over those mountains in real snow and ice.

I am looking at the specs of the current best super sticky tires and the next level down to see what I would now recommend for 15x8. IF there was a decent way to go to 16x8, as in bolt on for those needing to stick to 4x100 I would research that more as well but for now the best bet is the RPF1 in that size but only in 4x108 sadly. I had a new set of them but when working on some other ideas like going to 15x11's I knew I had to redo the BBK mounts so sent them back and got the 15x8 6UL for my AS setup instead.

Note: the 16x8 RPF1 will not likely fit with the standard 12.19" BBK setups, those wheels have rather small diameter "barrels" and just fit over my DIY 11.75" rotor BBK. That said it is even less likely the 16x7 RPF1 being offered in 4x108 to fit over the standard BBK.

 

[M-Sport fan]

^^^Of course, but I was referring to stretching a 205/215 onto the 9" or 10" wide wheels that WhiteST was mentioning above, NOT onto an 8" wide wheel (although I still feel that most of the 205s out there are way too stretched on an 8 as well).

 

[WhiteST]

^^^Of course, but I was referring to stretching a 205/215 onto the 9" or 10" wide wheels that WhiteST was mentioning above, NOT onto an 8" wide wheel (although I still feel that most of the 205s out there are way too stretched on an 8 as well).

Sorry for any confusion but I only meant 9" or 10" wide rims on our car, not stretching 205's onto them. That would look ridiculous . Others have stated that 9s can be done with some work but 10s require heavy alterations. I'd like to go that route one day.