KW v3 questions

[foodtruck]

Hey everyone,

I'm looking for some feedback from anyone who is and was running V3s with the progressive springs that came with them.

1) Have you been autocrossing/tracking them? To what success? Did the tires rub during sharp turns?
2) Where are the adjustment knobs for the model for our cars? I find that different online stores show different pictures so it;s hard to say for sure.
3) Have there been any leaks / failures so far? They cost a lot and it seems like a reputable firm but ive been seeing significant amount of reports that they leak. My personal anecdote is from a friend who got their rebuilt KWs had one of the shocks clunk immediately and had to send it back for rebuild again.

For context, I'm looking at them because 1) they reuse factory rubber mounts and 2) they are adjustable. There doesn't seem to be many sports oriented coilovers for our car with those properties. AFAIK B14 come close but they are not adjustable and I dont actually hear many people autocrossing on those (if you are then I would also be interested to hear about the experience. Unfortunately I found that while I think I am OK with a stiff suspension, the pillow ball mounts especially combined with RE71RS introduce the kind of noise I cant really tolerate for long.

Thanks,

 

[foodtruck]

Annoyingly enough, Ford is offering rebadged V3s that would probably be a no brainer but only for MK8 because of course they do

 

[WannabeST]

Have you considered Feals 441+? They are around that price range and offer custom valving and custom springs rates as well as a few other upgrades. Also if you email you can do a (441.5) coilover setup. which is 2 way coilovers in the rear and one way up front.

 

[foodtruck]

Have you considered Feals 441+

Thanks, yes, I looked at them, but from what I can tell they also come with solid plate mounts / pillow balls up front.

I'm part of the market outlier who's looking for higher race oriented spring rate / adjustable shock combination and _doesn't_ want adjustable / solid camber plates, haha.

 

[kevinatfms]

Thanks, yes, I looked at them, but from what I can tell they also come with solid plate mounts / pillow balls up front.

I'm part of the market outlier who's looking for higher race oriented spring rate / adjustable shock combination and _doesn't_ want adjustable / solid camber plates, haha.

Koni Sports with Swift Spec R's paired with OE top hats and some camber bolts would be your setup to keep NVH at bay while allowing for track use. I don't like camber bolts but you are limiting options to get camber to nearly zero without changing the top hat.

Camber bolts have a tendency to slip at extremes so check them regularly and make sure they are torqued to the proper load.

 

[foodtruck]

Koni Sports with Swift Spec R's paired with OE top hats and some camber bolts would be your setup to keep NVH at bay while allowing for track use.

I was looking at Spec Rs and either Konis or Bilstein B6s for quite some time. Two main issues for me there are:

* The way Koni rears are adjusted effectively forces me to set and forget it to some value because unbolting the shocks every time i want to change the setting would not be a viable option.
* I have concerns about Spec Rs ride height, especially after trying Meister Rs which is what I'm on right now. At default height, they seem to be pretty close to Swifts and I got fairly notable rubbing on the front liner (front ledge and the on the side close to the fender), so I'm guessing Swifts would rub as well.

Whenever I look at the product that is advertised as being competition oriented I'm always wondering how did they test it (i.e. autocross or track only? how wide were the turns? what tire/ wheel combination? does the manufacturer consider any sort of rubbing acceptable or not?) but that information is never available, sadly.

Thanks for heads up on camber bolts; I had good luck with them staying put so far but I'll keep an eye out.

 

[WannabeST]

* The way Koni rears are adjusted effectively forces me to set and forget it to some value because unbolting the shocks every time i want to change the setting would not be a viable option.

This thread would solve the issue of the rear shock adjustments. Just need to drill a small hole to the back of the cabin.
https://www.northamericanmotoring.c...-rear-damper-adjuster-tool-for-front-too.html

Why not just remove your fender liner also? I believe (Someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the swift springs were test with lots of shock valving testing which makes it the most compatible for our oem shock rates. Swift makes top tier stuff so I trust their judgement. Especially since I just threw on the spec r springs.

 

[foodtruck]

This thread would solve the issue of the rear shock adjustments. Just need to drill a small hole to the back of the cabin.

Interesting, i was under the impression that Koni rears are adjusted by compressing the shock fully in and turning the body. So there is also a hex slot on the top to achieve the same thing? That would solve the issue yes, cause then they're adjustable in exactly the same way as the Meisters

Why not just remove your fender liner also?

Well, the car is a daily so I figure the liner is there to protect the wheel well from rock impacts and premature rusting and such. I would like to retain that if possible.

 

[kevinatfms]

I was looking at Spec Rs and either Konis or Bilstein B6s for quite some time. Two main issues for me there are:

* The way Koni rears are adjusted effectively forces me to set and forget it to some value because unbolting the shocks every time i want to change the setting would not be a viable option.
* I have concerns about Spec Rs ride height, especially after trying Meister Rs which is what I'm on right now. At default height, they seem to be pretty close to Swifts and I got fairly notable rubbing on the front liner (front ledge and the on the side close to the fender), so I'm guessing Swifts would rub as well.

Whenever I look at the product that is advertised as being competition oriented I'm always wondering how did they test it (i.e. autocross or track only? how wide were the turns? what tire/ wheel combination? does the manufacturer consider any sort of rubbing acceptable or not?) but that information is never available, sadly.

Thanks for heads up on camber bolts; I had good luck with them staying put so far but I'll keep an eye out.

The rear Koni Sport adjustment design is fucking garbage. A ton of community members have expressed the hatred toward them to Koni with little to no response.

Two options - 1. get the Bilstein B6/B8's and run them without adjustment. 2.The KYB AGX for the older Ford Focus are the same length as the Fiesta rear shocks. They fit and work with the top hats. They have an adjustment knob on the bottom of the shock which can be fine tuned up to 125% of spring force(that rate is for a Focus). They could be swapped in out back and still use the Koni Sports up front.

What size wheel and tire are you on? Ive run the Bilstein B8/Swift Spec R's with the following and zero rubbing:
17x7 - 205/40R17
16x8 - 215/45R16
15x7 - 205/50R15
15x8 - 225/45R15

Tire height is huge factor in rubbing. Nearly everyone i have seen that complains about rub is going over 24" in tire height which contributes significantly in the rubbing issue. Stay at or below 23.6" in tire height and you shouldnt have an issue.

Coilovers are usually tested after the basic design and engineering is done using calculations on optimal grip levels. From there they will test them out(whether it be on track or at an autocross...etc) and fine tune the spring rate and valving to meet certain goals for a mixture of driving. Companies like Fortune Auto have the 500's which are street/track dual duty then step up to the 510's for more of a track day focused setup that makes compromises on street etiquette.

Testing regiments usually dont dictate wheel/tire combos since it will change drastically on who is testing, the car and other factors that wont matter in the long run. If you are buying a set of track designed coilovers then the adjustability allows you to set anything needed to achieve your goals on track.

You are asking for a comfortable set of coilovers that can be used on the street and track at the same time without compromises. Things like all-season tires(no season tires) or dual use brake pads(Hawk HP+) they are only so good at doing two things at once. They have compromises which show when you start to go one way or the other.

 

[WannabeST]

they are only so good at doing two things at once. They have compromises which show when you start to go one way or the other.

Strongly agree, Most of the "Dual duty" cars from friends I know always have their compromises. It's much easier to dedicate a car towards one single goal and stick to it.

 

[foodtruck]

You are asking for a comfortable set of coilovers that can be used on the street and track at the same time without compromises. Things like all-season tires(no season tires) or dual use brake pads(Hawk HP+) they are only so good at doing two things at once. They have compromises which show when you start to go one way or the other.

Thanks for a very comprehensive reply! Yes, my thought of initially going with ZetaCRD is to get exactly that, not a specialized autocross product but maybe something that makes me a bit faster on course. And I pretty much got exactly that and the suspension performed beautifully at the pad, except I could not imagine how harsh the solid strut mounts are on my ears in the long run (at least on this platform). But now that I tasted the coilover advantage, it's hard to go back to stock so here we are.

2.The KYB AGX for the older Ford Focus are the same length as the Fiesta rear shocks.

This looks like very interesting option, I'm surprised how cheap they are for adjustables. I wish I had garage space to play around with shocks, would have very likely jumped on these

At this point I'm starting to guess that any of the discussed options will make the car better as in more stable and thus faster than stock in quick transitions on course, be it progressive springs or linear ones. I also have some previous experience racing an STI on KW v3s on default settings; I loved how the car handled and would not be able to pinpoint where the progressiveness harmed the transitions (although maybe I would be able to feel that on the Fiesta knowing having felt how the car is with linear springs). Furthermore, when I raced ZetaCRDs I left the settings on "stiff default". That, combined with me already leaving performance on the table and having to keep stock soft mounts for comfort reasons makes me question whether I _really_ need the damper adjustability even.

So all in all, I conclude that considering the price when bought new and time it takes to service when something happens, KW v3s are not really worth it and I'm leaning towards B6/Swift suggestion. The only other alternative I see would be B14s PSS. I found that extremely helpful list of spring rates, and it actually looks like B14s would be a healthy increase over the stock. Furthermore, that rebadged European Ford Performance B14 kit is touted as "Autocross" so to me this indicates that it's suitable for the purpose.

What size wheel and tire are you on? Ive run the Bilstein B8/Swift Spec R's with the following and zero rubbing:
17x7 - 205/40R17
16x8 - 215/45R16
15x7 - 205/50R15
15x8 - 225/45R15

I'm on 16x7 215/45R16 on RE71RS; the outer diameter is at exactly the limit you stated. So looks like I'll be fine, however I can't help but put on my @M-Sport fan hat and wonder if B14 height adjustment will give me some breathing room in an event if it does somehow rub. (EDIT) Would be great to see a comparison of B6/Swift ride height and B14 ride height.

The thread scope has thus been expanded from "KW v3 questions" to "KW v3 and Bilstein B14 questions"

 

[kevinatfms]

Thanks for a very comprehensive reply! Yes, my thought of initially going with ZetaCRD is to get exactly that, not a specialized autocross product but maybe something that makes me a bit faster on course. And I pretty much got exactly that and the suspension performed beautifully at the pad, except I could not imagine how harsh the solid strut mounts are on my ears in the long run (at least on this platform). But now that I tasted the coilover advantage, it's hard to go back to stock so here we are.



This looks like very interesting option, I'm surprised how cheap they are for adjustables. I wish I had garage space to play around with shocks, would have very likely jumped on these

At this point I'm starting to guess that any of the discussed options will make the car better as in more stable and thus faster than stock in quick transitions on course, be it progressive springs or linear ones. I also have some previous experience racing an STI on KW v3s on default settings; I loved how the car handled and would not be able to pinpoint where the progressiveness harmed the transitions (although maybe I would be able to feel that on the Fiesta knowing having felt how the car is with linear springs). Furthermore, when I raced ZetaCRDs I left the settings on "stiff default". That, combined with me already leaving performance on the table and having to keep stock soft mounts for comfort reasons makes me question whether I _really_ need the damper adjustability even.

So all in all, I conclude that considering the price when bought new and time it takes to service when something happens, KW v3s are not really worth it and I'm leaning towards B6/Swift suggestion. The only other alternative I see would be B14s PSS. I found that extremely helpful list of spring rates, and it actually looks like B14s would be a healthy increase over the stock. Furthermore, that rebadged European Ford Performance B14 kit is touted as "Autocross" so to me this indicates that it's suitable for the purpose.

I'm on 16x7 215/45R16 on RE71RS; the outer diameter is at exactly the limit you stated. So looks like I'll be fine, however I can't help but put on my @M-Sport fan hat and wonder if B14 height adjustment will give me some breathing room in an event if it does somehow rub. (EDIT) Would be great to see a comparison of B6/Swift ride height and B14 ride height.

The thread scope has thus been expanded from "KW v3 questions" to "KW v3 and Bilstein B14 questions"

Bilstein has a "euro only" set of B16 adjustable coilovers that may fit the bill. You would have to order them from Pumaspeed but they are quite a bit more oriented to track use while attempting to maintain the factory compliance factor. I do believe they are also adjustable(2 way?). Way more expensive than the B14 kit at $2061.19 shipped from the UK.

https://pumaspeed.co.uk/product-Bilstein-B16-Coil-Over-Suspension-Kit-Ford-Fiesta-Mk7_17836.jsp

But they are adjustable, spring rates are up there for track work,46mm monotube damper w/ motorsports cartridges and can use the OE top hats.

 

[foodtruck]

But they are adjustable, spring rates are up there for track work,46mm monotube damper w/ motorsports cartridges and can use the OE top hats.

[closes 20 B14 review tabs]
[opens 20 B16 review tabs]

Would that mean I need to send the shocks for rebuild/exchange to EU or is there a repair center in NA that can deal with them? I sent the local distributor same question about B14, still waiting for them to come back.

 

[kevinatfms]

[closes 20 B14 review tabs]
[opens 20 B16 review tabs]

Would that mean I need to send the shocks for rebuild/exchange to EU or is there a repair center in NA that can deal with them? I sent the local distributor same question about B14, still waiting for them to come back.

If they are motorsport grade inserts(which they look to be) then i believe any service center can service them in the US. That would be a great question to Bilstein though or your favorite Bilstein rebuilder.

 

[M-Sport fan]

Pumaspeed does not state it in the copy at all, but going by the appearance of those springs I am going to guess that they are progressive rate, just like the B14 kits, correct?

 

[foodtruck]

Pumaspeed does not state it in the copy at all, but going by the appearance of those springs I am going to guess that they are progressive rate, just like the B14 kits, correct?

This is the same problem I have with KW product photos; i.e. if you look at the struts on the picture on PumaSpeed's product page, its pretty clear that these are not the ones for FiestaST and so the springs will be different as well. Looking at various other offerings such as for GTI and Focus, it seems that yes, B16 will have, uh, lightly progressive springs up front and more heavily progressive ones in the rear. So more or less B14s with adjustability? I've seen someone on GTI forums say that B14s are B16s with adjustments set to middle.

 

[foodtruck]

Here's an article where Bilstein rep refers to the front B14 springs as linear so combined with how there's a single loop up on top with closer spacing that the rest of the spring that might bind earlier, I'm guessing they're "linear enough" in practice https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/1605-how-to-make-a-ford-fiesta-st-an-autocross-animal/

 

[Fusion Works]

Two options - 1. get the Bilstein B6/B8's and run them without adjustment. 2.The KYB AGX for the older Ford Focus are the same length as the Fiesta rear shocks. They fit and work with the top hats. They have an adjustment knob on the bottom of the shock which can be fine tuned up to 125% of spring force(that rate is for a Focus). They could be swapped in out back and still use the Koni Sports up front.

Be careful the Focus uses a larger lower eye bushing. Don't think it will fit in the lower shock mount. Can measure this based on the shock you sent me. I noticed it when I went to dyno it.


As noted in my Bilstein thread, the B14 is a MUCH softer valving than the OE valving. The B6/B8 valving is much better than the B14 valving, but they B14 uses the spring to prop the car up. The Nice thing with the Bilstein B14 parts compared to many others, its a mono tube and the front strut is an inverted damper so its much stronger in bending than the smaller damper shafts common with everyone else. You can revalve the Bilstein rear dampers if you have machining capabilties to take them apart. The B14/B16 fronts are standard monotube parts which can be revalved if your shock shop can handle stock body recharging.

The B6/B8 damper is a cheap twin tube replacement damper. No different that stock. I haven't cut the two apart Kevin sent me yet, but I should be a normal twin tube parts with small pistons.

KW also has a hard on for twin tube dampers. To me you give up piston area and thus sacrifice damper response by running the tiny piston. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

The Bilstein is running a 32mm piston in the rear and its a bit on the small side. I am looking into the option for using a truck damper which would give me a full 46mm piston for the rear damper to get better response. The rear dampers on the cars are REALLY long, they have a bunch of travel so that is a problem.

 

[foodtruck]

As noted in my Bilstein thread, the B14 is a MUCH softer valving than the OE valving. The B6/B8 valving is much better than the B14 valving, but they B14 uses the spring to prop the car up. The Nice thing with the Bilstein B14 parts compared to many others, its a mono tube and the front strut is an inverted damper so its much stronger in bending than the smaller damper shafts common with everyone else. You can revalve the Bilstein rear dampers if you have machining capabilties to take them apart. The B14/B16 fronts are standard monotube parts which can be revalved if your shock shop can handle stock body recharging.

Interesting, so what I'm hearing is B14 may not be ideal for the application but it has modification potential if I ever narrow down how I want the shocks to behave.

When you say it has softer valving, what would that translate to on course, softer less responsive transitions than stock? Have they done that for comfort reasons? If so, does that mean that stiffer springs translate to less harshness than stiff dampers? Wouldn't stiff springs need to be paired with stronger damping and so if the springs went up from 170 to 270 the dampers would need to stiffen up as well?

What confuses me then is all of the feedback that Ive read that said the car has become more planted and less roll-y with B14

 

[foodtruck]

Interesting, so what I'm hearing is B14 may not be ideal for the application but it has modification potential if I ever narrow down how I want the shocks to behave.

When you say it has softer valving, what would that translate to on course, softer less responsive transitions than stock? Have they done that for comfort reasons? If so, does that mean that stiffer springs translate to less harshness than stiff dampers? Wouldn't stiff springs need to be paired with stronger damping and so if the springs went up from 170 to 270 the dampers would need to stiffen up as well?

What confuses me then is all of the feedback that Ive read that said the car has become more planted and less roll-y with B14

Went through Bilstein Science experiment thread and I think I found some answers to at least some of the above questions.

Still entirely unclear if it makes B14 any better than stock for lightly ambitious autocross, lets say.