Turbo Technics S280

[Mega ST]

Im pretty sure it was the S280. He was trapping 126 at the time until blowing the motor. Then went to a S290 I believe. Unless he did all that on the 2860.

 

[Dpro]

Im pretty sure it was the S280. He was trapping 126 at the time until blowing the motor. Then went to a S290 I believe. Unless he did all that on the 2860.

hmm well 37lbs on a s280 is nuts guys have blown them up running 33-34 this is why I was thinking it was his 2860 gen 2 setup. Anyways he is fricken nuts when it comes to pushing boost that much is given.

 

[Mega ST]

hmm well 37lbs on a s280 is nuts guys have blown them up running 33-34 this is why I was thinking it was his 2860 gen 2 setup. Anyways he is fricken nuts when it comes to pushing boost that much is given.

Wow. what's the "safe" boost limit? How much do you need to make 350-380? On previous setups when I used to tune myself, we always ran more boost less timing to keep the stock motors together and heads from lifting. 35psi and less timing on a given setup almost always made about the same and safer power than 30psi and more timing. I stopped tuning myself when I got into Audi's and canned safe tunes.

 

[Dpro]

Wow. what's the "safe" boost limit? How much do you need to make 350-380? On previous setups when I used to tune myself, we always ran more boost less timing to keep the stock motors together and heads from lifting. 35psi and less timing on a given setup almost always made about the same and safer power than 30psi and more timing. I stopped tuning myself when I got into Audi's and canned safe tunes.

Adam could get my car to 330-340 on E30 with injectors I do believe he would be going much beyond 29lbs of boost because I am running 27lbs max right now at 284hp and 284 TQ on pump gas and Adam is known for getting more hp at lower boost than a lot of tuners.,

 

[Mega ST]

Adam could get my car to 330-340 on E30 with injectors I do believe he would be going beyond 29lbs of boost because I am running 27lbs max right now at 284hp and 284 TQ on pump gas and Adam is known for getting more hp at lower boost than a lot of tuners.,

To reach 380-400 you would need about 35+ psi. That's not my goal, but supposedly what the turbo is capable of. I don't see why it would be grenading at just 33psi unless there is some other issue. MO15 go to 400 on C16. I think.

 

[Dpro]

To reach 380-400 you would need about 35+ psi. That's not my goal, but supposedly what the turbo is capable of. I don't see why it would be grenading at just 33psi unless there is some other issue. MO15 go to 400 on C16. I think.

Honestly I think you are mistaken. Our engines were designed with boost in mind. These engines are not old school engines.
You keep pulling random numbers about MO15 like he is some kind of god granted Westley has some of the fastest trap times of any FiST . Though the person you should be reading up on is his tuner who is my tuner tune+. Adam had the S280 completely sorted as far as it would 400HP on his trashfiesta . He posted on youtube extensively about. Westleys numbers with the S280 are because of Adam and Adam did it before Westley even owned a S280 . When Adam was doing all the S280 stuff Westley was still running Garrett. Granted he was getting great numbers but it was a Garrett that spools a lot later and lives a lot higher in the rev band.

 

[IDailyDriveABean]

Wow. what's the "safe" boost limit? How much do you need to make 350-380? On previous setups when I used to tune myself, we always ran more boost less timing to keep the stock motors together and heads from lifting. 35psi and less timing on a given setup almost always made about the same and safer power than 30psi and more timing. I stopped tuning myself when I got into Audi's and canned safe tunes.

See that's the dilemma, a lot of people desire big power without lag, so people end up spinning their turbo where it shouldn't go and either the turbo blows up or the engine does.

Back to the question, you can make just shy of 300whp on 91 with wmi @25psi, and just over 300whp on E30M. Imo you should only run as much boost as the cylinder head can efficiently take in which is right around 26-28psi I believe. Anymore and you're cramming boost for minimal DANGEROUS gains. The head on this engine are actually horrible cfm wise everything from Japan flows better.
Even the worst D16 series head from the base civic outflows these heads and the best casting from the D16 series outflows the ported head on our engine from mountune....

So instead of effectively scavenging and consuming the extra boost you end up pressuring the head once you move out the threshold and it obviously this effect increases with boost pressure...

This platform needs a new head casting BAD imo, something that mimics the Honda K series in design. Ford put ZERO effort into the port design of the head for obvious reasons.

 

[IDailyDriveABean]

Honestly I think you are mistaken. Our engines were designed with boost in mind. These engines are not old school engines.
You keep pulling random numbers about MO15 like he is some kind of god granted Westley has some of the fastest trap times of any FiST . Though the person you should be reading up on is his tuner who is my tuner tune+. Adam had the S280 completely sorted as far as it would 400HP on his trashfiesta . He posted on youtube extensively about. Westleys numbers with the S280 are because of Adam and Adam did it before Westley even owned a S280 . When Adam was doing all the S280 stuff Westley was still running Garrett. Granted he was getting great numbers but it was a Garrett that spools a lot later and lives a lot higher in the rev band.

Our engines have the worst port design and flow I have seen in a while, granted it's an economy car engine. But at the same time honda had designs in the mid 1980s that out performed our modern engines. The intake port design and the head design might as well be from the 60s in the Ford 1.6 eco boost

Our head

B18B

Ported B series

This is the biggest issue with the platform imo that no one wants to talk about.

 

[akiraproject24]

Man I love me some Honda engines

 

[Mega ST]

Honestly I think you are mistaken. Our engines were designed with boost in mind. These engines are not old school engines.
You keep pulling random numbers about MO15 like he is some kind of god granted Westley has some of the fastest trap times of any FiST . Though the person you should be reading up on is his tuner who is my tuner tune+. Adam had the S280 completely sorted as far as it would 400HP on his trashfiesta . He posted on youtube extensively about. Westleys numbers with the S280 are because of Adam and Adam did it before Westley even owned a S280 . When Adam was doing all the S280 stuff Westley was still running Garrett. Granted he was getting great numbers but it was a Garrett that spools a lot later and lives a lot higher in the rev band.

Thanks for pointing that out, Daily. Modern doesn’t mean well designed. I’ve read the head flow sucks. I’m not new to turbo 4bangers, just this platform and Dpro, I’m far from being on MO15’s dick, so chill. I’m mearly pointing out data points I’ve observed. Confrontational much? Just asking questions, friend. Who's Westley? Did you mean Wesley? What has Westey trapped? Never seen any of his data.

 

[New_Daily]

Our engines have the worst port design and flow I have seen in a while, granted it's an economy car engine. But at the same time honda had designs in the mid 1980s that out performed our modern engines. The intake port design and the head design might as well be from the 60s in the Ford 1.6 eco boost

Our head View attachment 57605

B18B
View attachment 57606
Ported B series
View attachment 57607
This is the biggest issue with the platform imo that no one wants to talk about.

Apples to oranges comparison. The Honda stuff was designed with efficiency in mind, as a naturally aspirated engine. For the small engines they usually build, they had to do everything possible to get decent power in a small package.

As Im sure most of us know, boost is simply the turbo (or a supercharger) forcing more air into an engine than the engine can combust. Super smooth and efficient head port design doesn't really matter. As has been stated, our motors were designed as a turbo motor to begin with. Do you think the snake work of boost piping and the IC is good for smooth and easy airflow? Doesn't matter, the turbo is cramming boost through there.

 

[Dpro]

Thanks for pointing that out, Daily. Modern doesn’t mean well designed. I’ve read the head flow sucks. I’m not new to turbo 4bangers, just this platform and Dpro, I’m far from being on MO15’s dick, so chill. I’m mearly pointing out data points I’ve observed. Confrontational much? Just asking questions, friend. Who's Westley? Did you mean Wesley? What has Westey trapped? Never seen any of his data.

Ah dude I am chill and your above comment is not what I said You seem to be the confrontational one here as you kept on quoting my responses answering your questions and pointing out MO15 I just gave you facts . I am done here as you are the one that is making comments like above not I.

 

[Mega ST]

Ah dude I am chill and your above comment is not what I said You seem to be the confrontational one here as you kept on quoting my responses answering your questions and pointing out MO15 I just gave you facts . I am done here as you are the one that is making comments like above not I.

Ok...

Apples to oranges comparison. The Honda stuff was designed with efficiency in mind, as a naturally aspirated engine. For the small engines they usually build, they had to do everything possible to get decent power in a small package.

As Im sure most of us know, boost is simply the turbo (or a supercharger) forcing more air into an engine than the engine can combust. Super smooth and efficient head port design doesn't really matter. As has been stated, our motors were designed as a turbo motor to begin with. Do you think the snake work of boost piping and the IC is good for smooth and easy airflow? Doesn't matter, the turbo is cramming boost through there.

Piping length though does have an affect on pressure drop as well as intercooler size and design from my understanding. Also smooth ports reduce turbulence of the charge air which is beneficial.

 

[IDailyDriveABean]

Apples to oranges comparison. The Honda stuff was designed with efficiency in mind, as a naturally aspirated engine. For the small engines they usually build, they had to do everything possible to get decent power in a small package.

As Im sure most of us know, boost is simply the turbo (or a supercharger) forcing more air into an engine than the engine can combust. Super smooth and efficient head port design doesn't really matter. As has been stated, our motors were designed as a turbo motor to begin with. Do you think the snake work of boost piping and the IC is good for smooth and easy airflow? Doesn't matter, the turbo is cramming boost through there.

It actually does matter.
It's why a B16a can make 380 crank at 14 psi
Or 507 crank at 24 psi on a 57mm turbo

Speaking of head flow. Head flow is why the B series can run a larger framed turbo (in the case from my power figure sources something just shy of G30-770) , the engine is efficient and pumps out enough air to take advantage of a bigger turbo with a similar response time us using a smaller turbo.

More cfm = exhaust gases being able to spool larger turbos.

 

[New_Daily]

It actually does matter.
It's why a B16a can make 380 crank at 14 psi
Or 507 crank at 24 psi on a 57mm turbo

Speaking of head flow. Head flow is why the B series can run a larger framed turbo (in the case from my power figure sources something just shy of G30-770) , the engine is efficient and pumps out enough air to take advantage of a bigger turbo with a similar response time us using a smaller turbo.

More cfm = exhaust gases being able to spool larger turbos.

The B series motor was not designed as a factory turbo motor. The design considerations were made with natural aspiration in mind, and for those motors, fairly high revving (especially for the time). It's not "why" you can get more power output at lower boost pressures than we run on our cars. So, will head porting help with power figures on a turbo motor? Sure. But not by that much relatively speaking, especially on a motor that was designed to be turbocharged from the factory.

So, again, apples to oranges comparison.

 

[M-Sport fan]

It actually does matter.
It's why a B16a can make 380 crank at 14 psi
Or 507 crank at 24 psi on a 57mm turbo

Speaking of head flow. Head flow is why the B series can run a larger framed turbo (in the case from my power figure sources something just shy of G30-770) , the engine is efficient and pumps out enough air to take advantage of a bigger turbo with a similar response time us using a smaller turbo.

More cfm = exhaust gases being able to spool larger turbos.

Not a Honda fan here, so I will ask; is the B16A an iron BLOCK powerplant?

 

[Mega ST]

Not a Honda fan here, so I will ask; is the B16A an iron BLOCK powerplant?

Open deck aluminum. H22 is a solid aluminum block. I was a mitsu guy, but built a few B’s D’s and H’s back in the 90’s early 2000’s.

 

[akiraproject24]

Open deck aluminum. H22 is a solid aluminum block. I was a mitsu guy, but built a few B’s D’s and H’s back in the 90’s early 2000’s.

Those B16 and B18 were pretty sexy. I guess the H22 to as well Prelude? but not as familiar with it lol I had an F22 in my 97 Accord 5 spd. Loved that car

 

[IDailyDriveABean]

The B series motor was not designed as a factory turbo motor. The design considerations were made with natural aspiration in mind, and for those motors, fairly high revving (especially for the time). It's not "why" you can get more power output at lower boost pressures than we run on our cars. So, will head porting help with power figures on a turbo motor? Sure. But not by that much relatively speaking, especially on a motor that was designed to be turbocharged from the factory.

So, again, apples to oranges comparison.

I don't understand why you keep going post go back to "designed for turbo charging" position... that's exactly why ford decided to make such a pitiful engine, made for mass produced disposable cars.

Whether or not it was designed for that, the engine is a textbook example of lack luster effort.

Head porting and a good cam will see big gains on this motor especially taking advantage of the higher rpms you can tap into.

Regardless back to the original question, we should only allow as much boost as the cylinder head can efficiently and effectively take in.

 

[Williamson]

I regret to interrupt the debate, but can I get a preinstall sanity check real quick? I think I've got it set up right, but it doesn't hurt to be certain

EDIT: I did not have it set up right, I was thinking intake/outlet on the turbo side rather than the BOV's respective intake/outlet sides. Outlet into turbo intake/intake from turbo outlet makes more sense.