Hybrid Turbo vs Big Turbo

[Hop]

What would be the major dis/advantages of the two turbos? Is it even worth it to pick up the hybrid over something like an S280? The price doesn't seem to be too different.

 

[Mega ST]

Ok. I'll be that guy. There are existing threads covering just that! Check em out! Little search will do.

 

[flbchbm]

Ok. I'll be that guy. There are existing threads covering just that! Check em out! Little search will do.

Multiple existing threads....
and I'll be the other guy that dares to state the S280 is a hybrid, NOT a big turbo.

 

[slopoke]

Multiple existing threads....
and I'll be the other guy that dares to state the S280 is a hybrid, NOT a big turbo.

I hate to say this, but the S280 is it's own turbo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a hybrid is making the stock turbo bigger by putting in bigger compressor and turbine wheels. The S280 is not hybrid, it's a happy medium between a hybrid and big turbo.

 

[dhminer]

I hate to say this, but the S280 is it's own turbo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a hybrid is making the stock turbo bigger by putting in bigger compressor and turbine wheels. The S280 is not hybrid, it's a happy medium between a hybrid and big turbo.

TT lists it as a hybrid, FWIW. It’s just not a kp39. I believe it’s a K04 turbine with their own compressor. It’s a big hybrid lol

 

[Dpro]

TT lists it as a hybrid, FWIW. It’s just not a kp39. I believe it’s a K04 turbine with their own compressor. It’s a big hybrid lol

Correct for a technicality standpoint design wise it’s definitely a Hybrid for our cars though?

It qualifies as a larger Turbo as the FiST never came with a KO4 so anyone calling the S280 a big Turbo on our cars is correct.

For our cars a S280 is indeed a big Turbo, that is actually hybrid design. That is the proper terminology and how it should be addressed so we can put this silly debate to rest for once and for all.

Oh and yes Slopoke got it right when he said it’s a medium between hybrid and big turbo which is true. Which is why just calling it a hybrid for the sake of technicality? On our cars is a complete misnomer. as a standard hybrid is based on a KP39 the Turbo that came on our cars, which like has been stated numerous times the S280 is not.
Oh and yes because of peoples insistence to only look at a single aspect of the picture I felt compelled to spell it .

Lesson over , schools out…

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I hate to say this, but the S280 is it's own turbo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a hybrid is making the stock turbo bigger by putting in bigger compressor and turbine wheels. The S280 is not hybrid, it's a happy medium between a hybrid and big turbo.

Been saying this For Eons now! The S280 is BT not a hybrid. No one knows how to use the search button anymore apparently.

 

[Dialcaliper]

Its funny because terms like “hybrid turbo” mean different things in different car circles.

It used to be (in the 80’s-90’s-00’s) that a “hybrid” turbo was any turbocharger assembled with compressor and turbine wheel/housings from two different “off-the-shelf” turbochargers. It started when people discovered you could easily attach a bigger Garrett T4 compressor and housing onto a T3 turbine and housing, (usually called a “T3/T4 hybrid” and “T28/40” and went from there.

This is a distinction because Garrett, Mitsubishi and many others have built many different size turbos on the various “frame sizes” that you can buy off the shelf, many of which have interchangable parts within a given frame size.

This also means that any “bolt-on” turbo that uses the stock or cast exhaust housing with a different compressor housing would be sort of a subset of “hybrid”. The S280, or anything from Pumaspeed fall in here, as do others.

By the old definition, the Whoosh, X37/47 would have been considered an upgraded “stock frame” turbo, or sometimes “cheater” turbo, being a K04 inside a KP39 housing. The original DSM “bastard 20g” was probably one of the first of this type - a MHI 20g CHRA with clipped wheels fitted inside a stock size 16g compressor and TD05H exhaust housings, which produced more flow along with the most awful turbo lag imaginable.

What we’d call a “Big” turbo (requiring custom exhaust manifold and/or O2 housing/pipe) people would just refer to by the myriad different specific off-the-shelf turbo models (GT35, GT40, Holset Hx, Borg Warner BW, etc), because there are way too many unique different turbo manufacturers, frame sizes and power levels to just lump them all together. Also, it’s adorable that we all call a GT25 “big” here. 😂

The definitions above still persist in the DSM/Evo and Subaru communities, and I imagine some others as well, where “stock frame” turbos can now push north of 400whp on pump gas (Evo X stock frame turbos on race gas have hit 600+) and hybrids and custom turbo setups shoot the moon (450-1200+ whp drag cars).

In short, I end up translating this way:
DSM -> Ford
Stock Frame -> Hybrid
Hybrid/Bolt-On -> S280, Pumaspeed, Etc
Custom XYZ -> Big

But times change, and here we are in a different car circle with different marketing terms, so whatever floats your boat. (Hybrid vs “Big”) 🤷

 

[Hop]

Been saying this For Eons now! The S280 is BT not a hybrid. No one knows how to use the search button anymore apparently.

That's why I asked. I consider Hybrid if it uses the external "shell" and the internals has been changed/modified. The S280 is a completely different turbo, and I consider it a Big Turbo.

 

[Dialcaliper]

To address the original post, the big difference between a “Hybrid/Bolt-On” and “Big Turbo” is going to be cost and overhead.

Hybrids/bolt-ons (I’m including the S280 here) are much simpler to install and much cheaper. At best you’re looking at bolt-on and a tune, and at worst you need some extra intake piping, no biggie. A hybrid will generally not need fueling upgrades unless you want to go there, however there are some larger bolt-ons (Pumaspeed et al) that will push that territory.

A “Big” turbo setup is going to cost a lot more with custom exhaust manifold/piping and you’re essentially looking at maxing out the fuel system from the get-go, otherwise you’re just wasting money and spoolup RPM when you could have just bought a Hybrid. You’re also much more likely to be pushing into the limits of the stock block and into “built motor” territory, which means even more money.

Remember kids, Money = Power…

 

[akiraproject24]

Maybe its a

{"Big" Hybrid}

 

[Hop]

To address the original post, the big difference between a “Hybrid/Bolt-On” and “Big Turbo” is going to be cost and overhead.

Hybrids/bolt-ons (I’m including the S280 here) are much simpler to install and much cheaper. At best you’re looking at bolt-on and a tune, and at worst you need some extra intake piping, no biggie. A hybrid will generally not need fueling upgrades unless you want to go there, however there are some larger bolt-ons (Pumaspeed et al) that will push that territory.

A “Big” turbo setup is going to cost a lot more with custom exhaust manifold/piping and you’re essentially looking at maxing out the fuel system from the get-go, otherwise you’re just wasting money and spoolup RPM when you could have just bought a Hybrid. You’re also much more likely to be pushing into the limits of the stock block and into “built motor” territory, which means even more money.

Remember kids, Money = Power…

This was an answer I was looking for. From my understanding the added power comes earlier and tapers off earlier with a hybrid (and the opposite for a BT) correct? So ultimately it would come down to if I am going to be racing or situations where the added power is required during high-speed applications, vs. Wanting more power for putting around town, off the line short bursts and giving it more of that "go kart" feeling?

 

[Dpro]

This was an answer I was looking for. From my understanding the added power comes earlier and tapers off earlier with a hybrid (and the opposite for a BT) correct? So ultimately it would come down to if I am going to be racing or situations where the added power is required during high-speed applications, vs. Wanting more power for putting around town, off the line short bursts and giving it more of that "go kart" feeling?

To give you more clarification while their are still manages to people who want to debate terminology, fact is this particular case look at as 3 different options . : Most common current hybrid in the U.S. base on the stock housing a Whoosh , gives more power and a big donkey kick down low almost to the point to some that makes it driving in town a chore.

A S280 ( extremely popular turbo for the car) which certain groups still want to hotly debate terminology on it . I only say that is it seems it’s always that group that want to hotly debate it.

That aside a S280 is a nice in between that bolts up to stock setups gives a lot more power comes in slightly later than the Whoosh and provides more power in the mid and hi end.. If you run E30 with it you will get that down low donkey kick as well.

You will still retain the Go Kart feel it will not go away. In fact a S280 powered car acts like a Stock FiST till around 2800-3k then it starts to really come alive while the Whoosh will go crazy at 2500 rpm. pick your poison.

Then you have what no one debates about a Garrett or Borg Warner which are bigger turbo’s per se and like stated above require aftermarket manifolds and whatnot. They will change the feel of the car and take away that end squirt so to speak in exchange for crazy mid range and top end.

 

[Hop]

To give you more clarification while their are still manages to people who want to debate terminology, fact is this particular case look at as 3 different options . : Most common current hybrid in the U.S. base on the stock housing a Whoosh , gives more power and a big donkey kick down low almost to the point to some that makes it driving in town a chore.

A S280 ( extremely popular turbo for the car) which certain groups still want to hotly debate terminology on it . I only say that is it seems it’s always that group that want to hotly debate it.

That aside a S280 is a nice in between that bolts up to stock setups gives a lot more power comes in slightly later than the Whoosh and provides more power in the mid and hi end.. If you run E30 with it you will get that down low donkey kick as well.

You will still retain the Go Kart feel it will not go away. In fact a S280 powered car acts like a Stock FiST till around 2800-3k then it starts to really come alive while the Whoosh will go crazy at 2500 rpm. pick your poison.

Then you have what no one debates about a Garrett or Borg Warner which are bigger turbo’s per se and like stated above require aftermarket manifolds and whatnot. They will change the feel of the car and take away that end squirt so to speak in exchange for crazy mid range and top end.

Awesome thanks for the clarification. I think I am going to stick with the S280 as that seems like a great middle-of-the-road choice for my needs. I won't be running E30 as we don't have a ton of E85 pumps, and quite honestly, I am too lazy to figure out the ratio I need (with an app or whatever) and have to swipe the card twice, pump twice.. too much work for a car that is really just a fun+ daily driver. 91 pump gas will be all I will need. I still feel that with some upgrades like the S280, Downpipe, intake, Exhaust sytem, tune, and good tires... I will be just fine

 

[Dpro]

Awesome thanks for the clarification. I think I am going to stick with the S280 as that seems like a great middle-of-the-road choice for my needs. I won't be running E30 as we don't have a ton of E85 pumps, and quite honestly, I am too lazy to figure out the ratio I need (with an app or whatever) and have to swipe the card twice, pump twice.. too much work for a car that is really just a fun+ daily driver. 91 pump gas will be all I will need. I still feel that with some upgrades like the S280, Downpipe, intake, Exhaust sytem, tune, and good tires... I will be just fine

heh I love mine. Sticky tires are important with the power as is ungraded engine mounts on all 3 points. Oh and either control arm bushing and a traction brace as well or both.