Turbo Technics S280

[dhminer]

Why is it difficult to find flow for these turbo’s? I want to know mostly out of curiosity. I’m old school and used to guage turbos on known turbo’s i’ve run. Mostly Mitsu stuff like 20g’s, 16G’s, E316G’s for small frame turbos, which by today’s standards on this platform would be considered big. Won’t even mention the large frames I’ve since irrelevant to small turbos which the S280 def is IMO.

I know the 20g flowed 39 lbs/min at peak efficiency, but on track days I’ve run it full closed wastegate and saw 40psi dropping to 28 by redline. Def not recommended, but always kept spares. For us old heads, what would this turbo compare to. 16g? Super60? Have to be over 40 to probably know anything about those turbos. Lol. Thanks for anyone in the know.

I emailed them asking for flow rates or compressor maps and they told me they don’t do them. Hand made in England has historically not been synonymous with high quality. Just saying.

 

[Mega ST]

Ha I'm 36 and I know about those turbos, but I came from the DSM world. I'm thinking its comparablish to a e316g. There's only a handful of guys that have really pushed these hard enough to the point where you can see it not keeping up boost wise. Close to 400whp should be close to or better than 40lb/min. Damn fuel, and cylinder/block stability has really kept many people from exploring as hard as the DSM world. Don't really know how these head flow either, and I feel like aftermarket CAMS are just starting to be explored too :-/

I'm def old school DSM. Where I cut my turbo teeth so to speak. E316G was a bad turbo. I ran low 11's in my 3460lbs AWD Talon automatic on one. Trapped in the 115-119mph area. I don't think the 6bolt 4G63 heads were anything special and the Honda B's and K's def outflowed them.

From what I understand the 1.6l head flows terrible. At what point are people also ditching the stock intake mani? Is anyone making 350plus on the S280 on stock intake mani? How about exhaust mani's too? Trying to gather all my supporting mods before grabbing the turbo. I believe in doing one mod at a time to measure gains and for easy troubleshooting. Unless I did exhaust mani with turbo. I Would hate to have to install the turbo twice.

 

[thecman02]

I'm def old school DSM. Where I cut my turbo teeth so to speak. E316G was a bad turbo. I ran low 11's in my 3460lbs AWD Talon automatic on one. Trapped in the 115-119mph area. I don't think the 6bolt 4G63 heads were anything special and the Honda B's and K's def outflowed them.

From what I understand the 1.6l head flows terrible. At what point are people also ditching the stock intake mani? Is anyone making 350plus on the S280 on stock intake mani? How about exhaust mani's too? Trying to gather all my supporting mods before grabbing the turbo. I believe in doing one mod at a time to measure gains and for easy troubleshooting. Unless I did exhaust mani with turbo. I Would hate to have to install the turbo twice.

I haven't found a compelling reason to upgrade manifolds. The intake doesn't look like their is much low hanging fruit for gains. Each runner has velocity stacks, and plenum volume, while possibly low for large turbo setups seems satisfactory. 10hp at block limits isn't worth it in my opinion. Exhaust manifold is even less compelling than other platforms. Haven't seen cracking issues like the old DSMS. There isn't any nice custom cast manifolds like Forced Performance made. Airtec manifold looks like it could be a worthy upgrade along with a s290, and some bigger cams. I feel like the reduction of backpressure from the S290 setup, and equal tube length could really lead to some tangible gains that would compliment the cams quite a bit.

This is all mostly speculation on my end though. As I've lamented in other posts, this community hasn't gotten to the point of gurus of industry openly sharing testing information on this front. We badly need turbo drive pressure data, head flow bench data, and truly proven engine package that can hold up to 500+ whp.

 

[Dpro]

I haven't found a compelling reason to upgrade manifolds. The intake doesn't look like their is much low hanging fruit for gains. Each runner has velocity stacks, and plenum volume, while possibly low for large turbo setups seems satisfactory. 10hp at block limits isn't worth it in my opinion. Exhaust manifold is even less compelling than other platforms. Haven't seen cracking issues like the old DSMS. There isn't any nice custom cast manifolds like Forced Performance made. Airtec manifold looks like it could be a worthy upgrade along with a s290, and some bigger cams. I feel like the reduction of backpressure from the S290 setup, and equal tube length could really lead to some tangible gains that would compliment the cams quite a bit.

This is all mostly speculation on my end though. As I've lamented in other posts, this community hasn't gotten to the point of gurus of industry openly sharing testing information on this front. We badly need turbo drive pressure data, head flow bench data, and truly proven engine package that can hold up to 500+ whp.

As a S280 owner and relatively long term FiST owner this point ( just over 5 years with around a couple years S280) I am just going to come out and say it. Looking for anything over 300-350HP in this chassis is just a giggles for bragging rights proposition . I guess if drag race but ya this is not a drag racers car though quite a few people seem to be preoccupied with it. It’s not that you can’t get those numbers its more like why? This car was never designed to be a straightline high HP drag machine great some people do it and seek to be the fastest I just feel it’s a waste of a great car. This is a handling car and once you hit 300-350 it becomes a a bit more a handful.
Seriously 500HP go buy a RWD chassis and set that up . I always felt and will say it going for 500HP in a FWD car is an exercise in silly. IMO

 

[atlantaM3]

the term 'traction limited' doesn't quite cover it. Even stock 2nd gear can be squirrely with these binky tires and weight transfer being on the wrong end...

 

[Mega ST]

My goal for my car is 350ish whp and I have no intention on going beyond what the stock engine can handle. I'm not out to build a drag car, but enjoy strong pull in the upper gears. People are gonna build what they want to build and for those who like to push the envelope on a platform, great! It's just leads to development and better parts down the line for everyone. I remember in the early 90's people laughing at the Honda crowd for "turboing" their economy car to try and be fast in a straight line. We see how that went years later. I don't think this platform is headed that way, but who knows. I prefer AWD for my higher HP street cars. I like to be able to put the power down in various conditions.

 

[thecman02]

As a S280 owner and relatively long term FiST owner this point ( just over 5 years with around a couple years S280) I am just going to come out and say it. Looking for anything over 300-350HP in this chassis is just a giggles for bragging rights proposition . I guess if drag race but ya this is not a drag racers car though quite a few people seem to be preoccupied with it. It’s not that you can’t get those numbers its more like why? This car was never designed to be a straightline high HP drag machine great some people do it and seek to be the fastest I just feel it’s a waste of a great car. This is a handling car and once you hit 300-350 it becomes a a bit more a handful.
Seriously 500HP go buy a RWD chassis and set that up . I always felt and will say it going for 500HP in a FWD car is an exercise in silly. IMO

I'm in the exact same boat and feeling as you are. I don't think their is any need for more than 350whp, I'm just explaining the state of where things are with the platform and development for someone asking questions about what is/isn't worth getting. I got my s280 setup because I felt it had more torque than needed down low, so I was willing to give that up for a powerband that carried nicely to redline. My comment about needing an engine package that could hold 500hp was strictly meant to be in context of what would be necessary to make the "big turbos 45lb/min+" and other peripherals worth getting.

 

[Mega ST]

I'm in the exact same boat and feeling as you are. I don't think their is any need for more than 350whp, I'm just explaining the state of where things are with the platform and development for someone asking questions about what is/isn't worth getting. I got my s280 setup because I felt it had more torque than needed down low, so I was willing to give that up for a powerband that carried nicely to redline. My comment about needing an engine package that could hold 500hp was strictly meant to be in context of what would be necessary to make the "big turbos 45lb/min+" and other peripherals worth getting.

And it was a great answer, thank you. I enjoy the car as it is with an E30 stock turbo tune. It’s great fun, almost hate to mess with, but I can’t leave well enough alone. Lol.

 

[Dpro]

And it was a great answer, thank you. I enjoy the car as it is with an E30 stock turbo tune. It’s great fun, almost hate to mess with, but I can’t leave well enough alone. Lol.

There used to be this real common issue that went on in the 240sx world especially after Fast and Furious proceeded to plaster our cars all over the world. That was people buying them ( lots of kids) stripping out the interiors and slamming them because drift car/ race car and then complaining how bad their daily drivers rode and horrendously loud it was in the interior.

I use that example as sometimes one does not know when to stop and basically destroys all the redeeming qualities of the platform.

See a properly set up S13 was an absolute blast to drive as is a properly setup FiST . After driving a S280 powered car for close to two years and driven a stock with tune car for the last month or so I can add some perspective.

Yes I miss the power of the S280 big time and do feel it’s a great Turbo for the car given its powerband . The stock car just kinda falls down when accelerating around other cars.

I would hazard to say if I had kept the car stock without the Turbo upgrade I might have sought another platform sooner in a desire for more power. Though I would also weigh in with the observation of after experiencing the S280 on E30 on the street that a goal of 350HP which means at least that much TQ with our engines is damn crazy.

Having driven the car at 300whp and 340wtq I feel the sweet spot for the car is 280-300 max HP. Why well because like said earlier the car starts to become a TQ steer monster above that. Hell it’s bad enough just under 300 . It starts to remind me of the Sentra Spec V SER I used to own.

If TQ steer is your jam go right ahead. It’s not mine personally trying to control a rabid vehicle becomes tiresome on a car you drive on a regular basis.
So think carefully seek balance and don’t wreck the experience several high HP FiST owners no longer own FiST’s in part I think because they found better platforms for HP. Oh and those owners moved to , Vettes, Mustangs, Stingers… etc notice something RWD or AWD not FWD.

 

[Mega ST]

There used to be this real common issue that went on in the 240sx world especially after Fast and Furious proceeded to plaster our cars all over the world. That was people buying them ( lots of kids) stripping out the interiors and slamming them because drift car/ race car and then complaining how bad their daily drivers rode and horrendously loud it was in the interior.

I use that example as sometimes one does not know when to stop and basically destroys all the redeeming qualities of the platform.

See a properly set up S13 was an absolute blast to drive as is a properly setup FiST . After driving a S280 powered car for close to two years and driven a stock with tune car for the last month or so I can add some perspective.

Yes I miss the power of the S280 big time and do feel it’s a great Turbo for the car given its powerband . The stock car just kinda falls down when accelerating around other cars.

I would hazard to say if I had kept the car stock without the Turbo upgrade I might have sought another platform sooner in a desire for more power. Though I would also weigh in with the observation of after experiencing the S280 on E30 on the street

Having driven the car at 300whp and 340wtq I feel the sweet spot for the car is 280-300 max HP. Why well because like said earlier the car starts to become a TQ steer monster above that. Hell it’s bad enough just under 300 . It starts to remind me of the Sentra Spec V SER I used to own.

If TQ steer is your jam go right ahead. It’s not mine personally trying to control a rabid vehicle becomes tiresome on a car you drive on a regular basis.
So think carefully seek balance and don’t wreck the experience several high HP FiST owners no longer own FiST’s in part I think because they found better platforms for HP. Oh and those owners moved to , Vettes, Mustangs, Stingers… etc notice something RWD or AWD not FWD.

If 300whp is the sweet spot why go S280 rather than something slightly more responsive like the Whoosh Hybrid? Torque hit on the S280 more manageable? More headroom? I’ve gone back and fourth between the two myself on which to purchase reevaluating my wants for this platform. I’ve driven 600whp K-Hondas and that gets old real quick on the street. Just not usable IMO. Now, my 600whp AWD Talon was a blast. Just unreliable. The Fist is just a lot of fun only a little underpowered.

With my Talon it was work maintaining it at that power level. I got spoiled by my B8.5 Audi’s which were about 500whp Supercharged. Never a worry. Always ran great and capable of high 10’s @ 125 or so. For the Fist I’ve pretty much settled on the S280 tho, I think 🤔. My main priority is not to ruin the fun experience.

 

[atlantaM3]

curious about this too. been reading threads about hybrids, etc. Opinions are all over the place - some are pro-hybrid as it maintains the same power dynamics, just MORE and seemingly is plug/play...vs S280 advocates for a bit softer midrange, more power with fueling mods, etc.

thinking about changing the turbo, really dont want to have to do it twice. especially since I need to take it apart to put all the other stuff on...

leaning hybrid based on readings thus far.

 

[Dpro]

If 300whp is the sweet spot why go S280 rather than something slightly more responsive like the Whoosh Hybrid? Torque hit on the S280 more manageable? More headroom? I’ve gone back and fourth between the two myself on which to purchase reevaluating my wants for this platform. I’ve driven 600whp K-Hondas and that gets old real quick on the street. Just not usable IMO. Now, my 600whp AWD Talon was a blast. Just unreliable. The Fist is just a lot of fun only a little underpowered.

With my Talon it was work maintaining it at that power level. I got spoiled by my B8.5 Audi’s which were about 500whp Supercharged. Never a worry. Always ran great and capable of high 10’s @ 125 or so. For the Fist I’ve pretty much settled on the S280 tho, I think 🤔. My main priority is not to ruin the fun experience.

Yes to TQ hit on the S280 being more manageable it’s much more of a drivable turbo on the bottom end IMO . Hybrid cool but delivers wheel spinning donkey kick TQ wise in the bottom end that can make daily driving more of a task. It does also have more headroom .
I think with the S280 you will be happy.

I will add for the softer mid range comment above I have never heard anyone say that about the S280. I
If drives like a stock car in the bottom end till around 2800-3k and then it starts pulling and pulls like a locomotive straight up to redline literally no stopping . I suspect it could. run a much higher redline flow wise with no problem . You run out of proper fueling on it boost wise before you run out flow. It sits mid way between a hybrid and a So called big turbo.
It’s technically a bigger turbo because it’s based on a K04 frame but some call it a hybrid due to it being mounted to a factory backside. .
Oh and the comment about the hybrid maintaining stock dynamics is not quite accurate while the car has some pull in the bottom end stock the Hybrid has downright silly amounts to almost the point of fun but not practical for daily use and almost old and tiresome after initial fun.

P.S. my buddies car is S242 powered aka hybrid and ya he gets me right off the line but after that my car is pushing more power and easily pulls.
He has driven my car as well and commented immediately about noticing more power overall and this is on 91 California pump gas! Which I pulled 284whp and 284wtq out of.
So ya prefer to be able to drive my car like a sane person down low and then romp on the gas and get up and trounce.
It’s a lot more surprising and shocking.

 

[akiraproject24]

curious about this too. been reading threads about hybrids, etc. Opinions are all over the place - some are pro-hybrid as it maintains the same power dynamics, just MORE and seemingly is plug/play...vs S280 advocates for a bit softer midrange, more power with fueling mods, etc.

thinking about changing the turbo, really dont want to have to do it twice. especially since I need to take it apart to put all the other stuff on...

leaning hybrid based on readings thus far.

Just installed a whoosh hybrid myself last month. Finished the 93 tune and working on the E30 now. Being an S280 thread I wont get carried away about it here. I posted on the whoosh hybrid thread. I will say I did a lot of research before choosing the whoosh over the S280. I seriously considered the S280 and I haven't seen anything bad about it. Ill also add I take it to work occasionally as it's an hour drive with highway which is healthy for the car in general. Anyhow daily wise you wouldn't really notice until you give it some intentional throttle in boost then it wakes up hard.

Originally I didn't want the S280 because I wanted the oem plug and play BUT after going through installation, the silicone coolant lines on the S280 would be a blessing. You can remove the heatshield without undoing the lines like with the oem hardlines. Would make things like checking manifold nuts and wastegate adjustments WAY easier. That alone is very handy.

 

[Mega ST]

Just installed a whoosh hybrid myself last month. Finished the 93 tune and working on the E30 now. Being an S280 thread I wont get carried away about it here. I posted on the whoosh hybrid thread. I will say I did a lot of research before choosing the whoosh over the S280. I seriously considered the S280 and I haven't seen anything bad about it. Ill also add I take it to work occasionally as it's an hour drive with highway which is healthy for the car in general. Anyhow daily wise you wouldn't really notice until you give it some intentional throttle in boost then it wakes up hard.

Originally I didn't want the S280 because I wanted the oem plug and play BUT after going through installation, the silicone coolant lines on the S280 would be a blessing. You can remove the heatshield without undoing the lines like with the oem hardlines. Would make things like checking manifold nuts and wastegate adjustments WAY easier. That alone is very handy.

Please discuss! There is a thread for it I guess, but we can touch on it. Why did you choose Hybrid? Are you happy with your choice? Have you driven an S280 car? Your post almost sounds like you're 2nd guessing. I would be running E30 or higher almost all the time. The E30 tune difference vs the 93 tune on the stock turbo is significant. I love the extra grunt down low E30 provides.

 

[akiraproject24]

Ok you twisted my arm lol. I liked that the Whoosh was an oem turbo on the outside and retained all the oem attachments. I also didnt want the fastest or most powerful but from the descriptions of the hybrids in general I felt it would be just the right amount of "fun". Not that any upgraded turbo wouldnt be fun but....

I went down the rabbit hole of journal bearing vs ball bearing as well and once you got over specs and pros and cons the journal seemed fine for my usage. Caveat, I dont track, Im 44, I toy around with the car when the weather is perfect lol. Let's see, it whistles which seemed ridiculously prominent at first but im either getting used to it or the tune and mileage have settled everything down breaking it in. 2nd will rip the wheels free if you want it too but the donkey kick is manageable and my tuner did a fantastic job smoothing it in.

No I have never driven an S280 or even any other FiST, definitely not 2nd guessing I am loving it. But after doing the install myself I can appreciate the ease of heatshield removal and being able to access underneath it with less headache.

I did more than just the turbo swap that day, intake, downpipe, manifold, hotside pipe, ruthenium plugs. My gas mileage improved like 3 mpg and thats with datalogs and multiple pulls. So i think the car is pretty happy with the hardware and tuning. I have just over 500 miles on the new hardware, 22k on the car total.

Im on the base E30 tune at about 22.6 psi max and it feels much stronger and smoother even than the completed 93 tune. Id datalog now but it was raining all day.

 

[Mega ST]

Yes to TQ hit on the S280 being more manageable it’s much more of a drivable turbo on the bottom end IMO . Hybrid cool but delivers wheel spinning donkey kick TQ wise in the bottom end that can make daily driving more of a task. It does also have more headroom .
I think with the S280 you will be happy.

I will add for the softer mid range comment above I have never heard anyone say that about the S280. I
If drives like a stock car in the bottom end till around 2800-3k and then it starts pulling and pulls like a locomotive straight up to redline literally no stopping . I suspect it could. run a much higher redline flow wise with no problem . You run out of proper fueling on it boost wise before you run out flow. It sits mid way between a hybrid and a So called big turbo.
It’s technically a bigger turbo because it’s based on a K04 frame but some call it a hybrid due to it being mounted to a factory backside. .
Oh and the comment about the hybrid maintaining stock dynamics is not quite accurate while the car has some pull in the bottom end stock the Hybrid has downright silly amounts to almost the point of fun but not practical for daily use and almost old and tiresome after initial fun.

P.S. my buddies car is S242 powered aka hybrid and ya he gets me right off the line but after that my car is pushing more power and easily pulls.
He has driven my car as well and commented immediately about noticing more power overall and this is on 91 California pump gas! Which I pulled 284whp and 284wtq out of.
So ya prefer to be able to drive my car like a sane person down low and then romp on the gas and get up and trounce.
It’s a lot more surprising and shocking.

Drives like a stock E30 tuned car or a completely stock no tune car up to 2800rpm? Rabid behavior could be could be fun! (from your previous post) Lol. I've completely changed my driving style with this car. I don't even bother to rev above 5K cause the party's over by that time and quite frankly I don't mind that. It draws little attention to my somewhat aggressive driving around town; pointing and squirting where I want to go without having to keep the revs up. How is boost recovery between shifts on the S280? 2500-5k? Thats where I spend most of my time when driving around town where I live. I do have some nice highway stretches on my commute too. It's mixed. I really need to experience an S280 car 1st hand to help get me off the fence I keep getting stuck on.

 

[Dpro]

Drives like a stock E30 tuned car or a completely stock no tune car up to 2800rpm? Rabid behavior could be could be fun! (from your previous post) Lol. I've completely changed my driving style with this car. I don't even bother to rev above 5K cause the party's over by that time and quite frankly I don't mind that. It draws little attention to my somewhat aggressive driving around town; pointing and squirting where I want to go without having to keep the revs up. How is boost recovery between shifts on the S280? 2500-5k? Thats where I spend most of my time when driving around town where I live. I do have some nice highway stretches on my commute too. It's mixed. I really need to experience an S280 car 1st hand to help get me off the fence I keep getting stuck on.

Never owned a stock car with a E30 only aftermarket pump gas tunes and ya it drives like that one could say. When I was doing tuning pulls we started at 2500 rpm . 14lbs boost I am tuned for 27.5lbs roughly during tuning I saw 29lbs but It was tuned back a bit most likely because Adam felt it was leaning out to much again more flow than fuel.
Oh and if you like rabid behavior I would be lying if I did not say the S280 does deliver rabid behavior . Boost recovery is fine and the S280 lives at 5k and up all day. Of course my driving style has always been between 3-6k .
Experiencing one is a good idea. I got to experience a S242 and a Whoosh hybrid before I did my S280. I actually liked the S242 moreso than the Whoosh. Funny thing about that is both were tuned by the same tuners I used . S242 tuned by Adam and the Whoosh tuned by Antspec who initially tuned my S280 and yes know I am tuned by Adam at Tune+.
The Whoosh was fun but absolutely nutty in the bottom end. I prefer not to have a super crazy TQ at the bottom as I want to nail it and get traction as it is even nailing the S280 is gonna be still a blast it just spools around 3-400 rpm later than the Hybrid. Though it’s all in around 3200rpm.

 

[rexnebula]

Planning an S280 build on my '14 and couldn't find a definitive answer on necessary supporting fuel mods to get the most out of this turbo on 93 pump. 30% injectors and HPFP necessary to wring the most out of it, or is that a waste of money and only necessary for E30/E85? Will just 30% injectors max me out, or is that not even necessary?

 

[Mega ST]

I've read that 30% injectors allow you to reach the over 300whp mark. I'm not sure on 93. I want to say the ceiling on 93 is 300whp no matter how much fuel due to knock threshold. Not 100% sure tho. You would probably need some meth injection in that case.

 

[Dpro]

I've read that 30% injectors allow you to reach the over 300whp mark. I'm not sure on 93. I want to say the ceiling on 93 is 300whp no matter how much fuel due to knock threshold. Not 100% sure tho. You would probably need some meth injection in that case.

You will get it to around to just under 300 whp on 93 . Much like with E30 and 91. To tune with E30 you need to 30% injectors which will net you 30-40 whp dyno proven. The car gets pretty spirited at that point. If you want go further you would a HpFp as well.