WHP limits on S280, stock fuel but +30% Bosch injectors

[Williamson]

Hey there, looking to go to an S280 with either an MFactory or Wavetrac LSD and was hoping to land near 350whp all said and done, but no desire for more than that. I know fuel is a limitation on the car, and I've seen claims of around 300whp off pump gas with stock fuel but the more I look that seems to be more like an E30 limit, with 93 being more like 285? While I'd love to use E30, I'm in Washington where we get 92 octane E10 and while it sounds well regarded, it's no ethanol. Obviously, the XDI with the Bosch injectors should clear me for fuel past the end goal of 350, but at $1800 I am admittedly not super stoked about it all at once. Uprated injectors sounds like it gives more headroom even on stock fuel, but again it seems everything is based on E30-E50. If my immediate goals are to make around 300whp and decide when (or if) I want more, is that achievable on stock fuel with 92, will I need the injectors or more?

 

[Dpro]

Hey there, looking to go to an S280 with either an MFactory or Wavetrac LSD and was hoping to land near 350whp all said and done, but no desire for more than that. I know fuel is a limitation on the car, and I've seen claims of around 300whp off pump gas with stock fuel but the more I look that seems to be more like an E30 limit, with 93 being more like 285? While I'd love to use E30, I'm in Washington where we get 92 octane E10 and while it sounds well regarded, it's no ethanol. Obviously, the XDI with the Bosch injectors should clear me for fuel past the end goal of 350, but at $1800 I am admittedly not super stoked about it all at once. Uprated injectors sounds like it gives more headroom even on stock fuel, but again it seems everything is based on E30-E50. If my immediate goals are to make around 300whp and decide when (or if) I want more, is that achievable on stock fuel with 92, will I need the injectors or more?

I have hit 284 whp on 91 pump and pretty much 300 on a E30 base tune with pump 91 thing is it can’t be tuned more without the 30% injectors I will add with the E30 base tune I was seeing 340ft lbs of TQ and TQ is what you feel with your butt dyno. It’s what’s gets you off the line and gets you when you punch HP carrie’s you. A lot of people get hung up on HP . Carroll Shelby famously said TQ wins races HP sells cars.
. If I wanted to put in 30% injectors then I could hit 330-340 whp dyno proven by my tuner. He has tuned a lot of injector cars. If you want 350 or higher though you will have to add in a hpfp or ditch the injector route and do a aux fuel setup . I personally feel aux fuel is kinda of a. 90’s deal as you’re piggybacking it off your ecu. Whereas an injector setup is how the cars were designed to work.

 

[Williamson]

I have hit 284 whp on 91 pump and pretty much 300 on a E30 base tune with pump 91 thing is it can’t be tuned more without the 30% injectors I will add with the E30 base tune I was seeing 340ft lbs of TQ and TQ is what you feel with your butt dyno. It’s what’s gets you off the line and gets you when you punch HP carrie’s you. A lot of people get hung up on HP . Carroll Shelby famously said TQ wins races HP sells cars.
. If I wanted to put in 30% injectors then I could hit 330-340 whp dyno proven by my tuner. He has tuned a lot of injector cars. If you want 350 or higher though you will have to add in a hpfp or ditch the injector route and do a aux fuel setup . I personally feel aux fuel is kinda of a. 90’s deal as you’re piggybacking it off your ecu. Whereas an injector setup is how the cars were designed to work.

Yeah, I figure the injectors are affordable enough that it is a no brainer if I can get a decent little boost in power out of them, the HPFP is certainly an investment, call it one for down the line when I'm used to an even faster car lol. Not really digging aux fuel for the same reasons you said, it's more like a hack than a proper solution (Though clearly it works fine for many!). Ultimately I'm just trying to find what to expect if I grab injectors and leave it on stock fuel otherwise running 92/93. Though I did learn that I can get E85 on base, but that only really works for me when I'm close enough to be able to run it. I'll probably pick up a tune to have fun with it while nearby but I'm planning for 92 since that's what the vast majority of the state has.

 

[dhminer]

Wesley got something like 340whp on E30 with the setup you mentioned, but most tuners don’t recommend injectors without HPFP which is the weak point. 300whp-ish is the limit of premium fuel no matter what HPFP or injectors.

 

[Dpro]

Wesley got something like 340whp on E30 with the setup you mentioned, but most tuners don’t recommend injectors without HPFP which is the weak point. 300whp-ish is the limit of premium fuel no matter what HPFP or injectors.

Yes because like I he is tuned by Adam and Adam has dyno proven those numbers,Oh and yes with straight premium 93 one is not going to go beyond 300 it’s the E30 with injectors that does the trick and Adam has a number of cars running around with that setup. Those were his exact words to me. I just came to the conclusion that the car was fast enough on the street here with the 91 tune and base e30 tune.

 

[Williamson]

Wesley got something like 340whp on E30 with the setup you mentioned, but most tuners don’t recommend injectors without HPFP which is the weak point. 300whp-ish is the limit of premium fuel no matter what HPFP or injectors.

Hmm, I've read elsewhere that injectors are the first weak point but obviously the whole system is lacking. Wesley was one of the people I saw say that, but he's certainly a hard one to miss in that regard. Guess I'll keep doing my research and talk to some tuners before I make any purchases. Shame I can't find E85 routinely as it sounds like E30 or above would give me what I'm looking for and for less money. Time to bug Jason again I suppose, I paid for a stage 2 tune that I've not gotten around to taking advantage of so I suppose I'll ask him if he'll let me put it towards a custom tune while I bug him

 

[SquirrelRJ]

Has anyone does just the HPFP?

I plan on doing both injectors and pump when I install my s280, but was just curious if anyone has experience with just adding the hpfp.

does one run out of fuel capability before the other?

 

[Williamson]

Has anyone does just the HPFP?

I plan on doing both injectors and pump when I install my s280, but was just curious if anyone has experience with just adding the hpfp.

does one run out of fuel capability before the other?

My understanding is the injectors run out before the pump does, but evidently that may not be entirely true. I'm sure it works fine, but it's probably a waste of a $1400 fuel pump lol

 

[dhminer]

Has anyone does just the HPFP?

I plan on doing both injectors and pump when I install my s280, but was just curious if anyone has experience with just adding the hpfp.

does one run out of fuel capability before the other?

Stratified mentioned tuning for E85 on hpfp+single port aux fuel. That’s about all I I’ve heard of doing just the HPFP.

 

[Dpro]

having the extra fuel pressure does not do anything if you don’t have the injectors to flow it. The reason for the hpfp is to accommodate higher flow injectors . Our stock injectors on E30 or top octane fuel max out at around 300 whp tuning wise in part because they just can’t flow any more fuel Hence why you need either aux fuel or larger injectors( 330-340 larger injectors and e30) and a hpfp for the larger injectors if you want to go beyond 330-340whp with e30 of course.
I know that a lot guys used to tune with single port aux fuel without HpFp. HPFP became more of a o thing when larger injectors started happening. Larger injectors with hpfp to me is a much superior way to tune the car for high hp over 4 port aux fuel because it’s tied directly into your ecu’s vs piggybacked aux fuel which is 90’s technology.
Though for myself it’s purely theoretical, as honestly unless you are a drag racer our cars hit the sweet spot hp wise between 280-300hp . Anything over that IMO just gets really silly as the TQ pulls the car all over the place and it’s a cornering car not a drag racer but there will always be the person who begs to differ. The pWestleys of the world who live to see the Fastest FiST this side of the sun. Gotta love em for the sheer awe factor.

 

[TyphoonFiST]

I've always wondered Why Fomoco started Doing port injection and Direct injection Vs. just larger DI injectors and larger HPFP's....

 

[Dpro]

I've always wondered Why Fomoco started Doing port injection and Direct injection Vs. just larger DI injectors and larger HPFP's....

That’s a whole other subject plus they didn’t run it piggyback on the ecu with a controller designed in the 90’s In other words do it right or go home

 

[TyphoonFiST]

That’s a whole other subject plus they didn’t run it piggyback on the ecu with a controller designed in the 90’s In other words do it right or go home

Still the same concept* No matter if its integrated or not.

 

[Dpro]

Still the same concept* No matter if its integrated or not.

ya but if it’s integrated it’s less likely to go boom

 

[ryanvue]

I thought they used dual injection for emissions and to cancel out the disadvantages of each system? I'm pretty sure it comes in one system unlike our aftermarket kit.

 

[dhminer]

I thought they used dual injection for emissions and to cancel out the disadvantages of each system? I'm pretty sure it comes in one system unlike our aftermarket kit.

The 1.5 three that replaced our 1.6 has both. You’re correct those are two reasons companies are going to both port and direct injection.

 

[Dpro]

I thought they used dual injection for emissions and to cancel out the disadvantages of each system? I'm pretty sure it comes in one system unlike our aftermarket kit.

your latter sentence was exactly what I was pointing out. The former is true and I believe one of the main reasons that ford went to port injection on the 1.5 was for valve lubrication that GDI engines do not do. As for it being for emissions I am not so sure GDI without port injection is already really efficient and clean burning emission wise.

 

[ryanvue]

your latter sentence was exactly what I was pointing out. The former is true and I believe one of the main reasons that ford went to port injection on the 1.5 was for valve lubrication that GDI engines do not do. As for it being for emissions I am not so sure GDI without port injection is already really efficient and clean burning emission wise.

I was reading up on it awhile back. The dual system used port injection during low RPM to minimize emissions up to 40% compared to using GDI, GDI at normal operation RPM I think above 1500 rpm but depended on manufacturer settings, while using both at WOT. Noticed how GM (or whoever) used cylinders deactivation at cruise and engine shut off at stop? I remembered watching an engineerexplain clip where they did a fuel test and car seems to used more fuel at idle compared to moving, all the way to highway speed.

Anyway, back on topic, LOL. My XDI is going in on the weekend, any tip or modification needed on installing? I could only find Ford focus video on YouTube. Will I get to 350 whp on e50 without an upgraded MAP sensor or do I have to get past 29 PSI to get it?

 

[Dpro]

I was reading up on it awhile back. The dual system used port injection during low RPM to minimize emissions up to 40% compared to using GDI, GDI at normal operation RPM I think above 1500 rpm but depended on manufacturer settings, while using both at WOT. Noticed how GM (or whoever) used cylinders deactivation at cruise and engine shut off at stop? I remembered watching an engineerexplain clip where they did a fuel test and car seems to used more fuel at idle compared to moving, all the way to highway speed.

Anyway, back on topic, LOL. My XDI is going in on the weekend, any tip or modification needed on installing? I could only find Ford focus video on YouTube. Will I get to 350 whp on e50 without an upgraded MAP sensor or do I have to get past 29 PSI to get it?

interesting, I stand corrected. I am not surprised about using more fuel sitting idling vs turned on and off. .